[quote=“GuyInTaiwan”][quote=“TheGingerMan”][quote=“GuyInTaiwan”]
To the rest, I say fuck it. Be Darwinian about it. If they or their parents are that stupid, good on 'em. The world needs fewer idiots.[/quote]
I think you need to spend some time viewing some of these kids in the IC wards of the children’s wing of any hospital. There’s nothing more sobering that seeing some helpless mangled infant whose injuries were brought about by the selfish insular attitude of some so-called grown up who should know better than to gamble with the well-being of those under their care.
It’s surely quite insular of yourself to even suggest the fact that the poor kids are somehow to blame, and that they somehow deserve their quite easily preventable injuries.[/quote]
I’m not saying the kids are to blame or deserve anything. I’m saying it is what it is and I’m saying natural selection isn’t such a bad thing. The West could certainly use more of it. Is it fair that some kid gets his head cracked open? No, but boo-hoo. Is it fair that I don’t look like Brad Pitt and don’t have girls dripping off me? No, but boo-hoo. Life isn’t fair, and neither should it be or we’d all be soft and useless.[/quote]
And having lack of sympathy is hardly the fault of the audience, when the competitors themselves are the one’s putting their own kids into the game. If it were my choice I would simply relieve these people of their rider’s licenses and if they have an accident with their child on board, easy! Just lock them up. I think people would start to get the message. I’d also stop putting the largest percentage of tax dollars into the military however, and instead spend it where it actually protects people’s lives i.e. on the road by employing an army of traffic police.
Taiwan has been spending less and less on the military, in fact they are looking for ways to cut expense in the military by cutting personnel. China by comparison spends more and more money on military and that’s just the budget we know about.
Indeed, punish these cretins. That would actually require two things though. Firstly, people would have to learn how to drive correctly. The closed circuit driving tests they do here are a joke. Make them do a driving test out in traffic like we do in the West, and fail them as many times as necessary. Secondly, it would also require the police here to do their jobs and enforce the road rules regarding all the the idiocy here from dodgy driving to double parking.
The police here just wear uniforms and writes enough tickets to keep their bosses happy… im not even sure if any of them knows how to handle a firearm and probably should not be allowed near one. Also their firearm is highly inaccurate… I knew a MP who said you couldn’t hit someone from 3 yards away with them if you tried.
Traffic police have absolutely no need for a firearm, so that’s a red herring indeed.
The development of a traffic police force separate from the ‘real’ police also could be cost-neutral, or perhaps even make more revenue than they cost, as you can simply pay them on commission: they keep 10% of the fines they impose, but get paid no other money. A great incentive for them to work hard.
That would have so many positive effects on Taiwan’s general disregard for traffic safety, road courtesy, even its parking madness. Another bonus would be the police could actually get on with real policing, instead of wasting two hours a day uselessly waving their red baton at evening rush hour at traffic lights that work well enough anyway, or sitting next to the road waiting for scooters to turn right on a red.
[quote=“urodacus”]Traffic police have absolutely no need for a firearm, so that’s a red herring indeed.
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True, what if the guy that was pulled over happens to be a wanted felon or just some guy who doesn’t want a ticket and decides to play rambo instead? Happens all the time in America.
Well, that’s a police matter, not a traffic warden’s concern. That’s when the traffic plod snaps a photo if he/she can and calls the cops. The Real cops, so they can do their thing. And a traffic cop has no power to arrest you for anything like dead warrants or murder or whatever, just to fine you, so with different uniforms, etc, there’d be no excuse for a ‘perp on the lam’ thinking he was about to be jailed, and thus far less likelihood that your nightmare scenario would come true.
And as for pulling a gun on a traffic cop, this isn’t America, thank the gods. I like lots of things about America, but the prevalent coward’s resort to a gun to solve life’s little problems is not one of them, that’s for sure.
We simply need the police to enforce the current laws. There is no way anyone should be thrown in to jail for not wearing a bucket. Throw in some education by the government and public service campaigns on tv and well be on our way. So what do you drive Jimipresley? My scooter ran me 4000nt and 90nt for a can of spray paint, love it.
Public service campaigns are out there and make little to no impact as far as I can tell. Police officers cost more to employ than the ticket revenues collected. Education cannot be foreseen for a long time to come as they are still only emulating education systems and are not actually employing practical education that can be appreciated. Their society still has a long way to go. They do however understand corporal punishment much better as it is an ingrained part of their culture so I would like to see it more as is in Singapore. I would only like to see people jailed for causing harm to youngsters on scooters though and cancellations of licenses as well as public service and fines for those that are caught carrying under age children.
People without licenses tend to re offend much less frequently than those simply fined a few hundred NT. Repeat offenders should face time and should be charged with their stay.
I personally have much less of a problem with people that fail to take care of themselves by not wearing suitable helmets. I believe that if they have an accident then they simply shouldn’t receive national health payouts to assist them with their head related medical bills. This is the case in some U.S. states that allow riders without helmets as long as they cover their own insurance.
Children are of course a different matter and should not be on motorcycles in Taiwan in the first place. I can understand the necessity in a third world country such as India perhaps or even in some places in China, but Taiwan is convenient enough already in terms of public transport and so there is simply no excuse.
I ride in taxis, because they are safer than scooters and very affordable by world standards. This is merely when I go out (recreation), however. Luckily, I can walk to work (5 mins). If I had to commute, I would have to drive a scooter, no doubt.
Recent new report stated complaints about the amount of traffic tickets being issued on certain roads. Seems the complainers think it is unfair to fine so many people for speeding during this bad economic times as so many people are poor without much funds to pay the fines.
This logic seems to be in line with the legislator who said policemen were using unfair tactics to hide behind signs to catch people running red lights. He said that if the drivers saw the policemen at the traffic light they would naturally stop for fear of being fined.
I don’t know the recent direction…but seems the last few years those who break the law are gaining the upper hand by being able to demand “proof” they broke the law. Police officers without clear video or photos have harder time to issue traffic tickets. However, that is just what I read…
[quote=“Flakman”]Recent new report stated complaints about the amount of traffic tickets being issued on certain roads. Seems the complainers think it is unfair to fine so many people for speeding during this bad economic times as so many people are poor without much funds to pay the fines.
This logic seems to be in line with the legislator who said policemen were using unfair tactics to hide behind signs to catch people running red lights. He said that if the drivers saw the policemen at the traffic light they would naturally stop for fear of being fined.
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I like the logic :loco:
During hard economic times, suspend the rule of law
Its not my responsibility to follow the rules… it’s the responsibility of the police to ensure I do
If you asked the question, how many kids die on scooters each year, you would get a few replies.
“I don’t know”
“Just after visiting that temple so we are safe for another year”
“Who cares?!, certainly not the police anyway”
I’m of two minds on this. Firstly, why let these snaggle-toothed morons get away with breaking the law? On the other hand, to what extent aren’t police here snaggle-toothed morons who would start issuing tickets willy-nilly to people who didn’t deserve them so they could line their own pockets?
I’ve not seen any evidence of cops here handing out undeserved tickets. Their laziness in handing out tickets seems to imply that there isn’t much incentive for them. The number of times I have NOT gotten a deserved ticket is the staggering thing.
As for changing behavior, perhaps incentives are in order. What if we could convince the nation’s largest gas station chains, for example, to hand free lollipops (or somesuch) to all kids in cars (but only if they’re wearing their seatbelt) and on scooters (but only if they had properly fastened helmets on), with promotional posters: Treats for smart kids! Certified helmets for kids would be on sale on the stand next to the gas pump, with a government subsidy so they weren’t more expensive than night-market crap, and if the parents bought one and put it on the kid, the kid would get the lollipop.
Do you think it would work, and how could we convince the right people to get something like that moving?
I think both the carrot and the stick are needed. Treats, prizes and education for kids (though it’d be mostly wasted on adults, IMHO). Fines and active hunting of offenders for adults.
And as i said before, take the responsibility for traffic offences away form the police, and make the enforcement pay for itself. Either as a commission, or just pay the traffic plod a decent pay. Make it a city or a county government responsibility, completely divorced from the police, and put that revenue straight into the city council coffers for road improvements, schooling, even the education program for local schools and clubs, whatever. Are you telling me that you don’t think even the most half-arsed traffic plod could not write at least 10,000 worth of tickets a day?
What I don’t understand is that every “policeman” I’ve asked says it is not compulsory for children to wear helmets, but the government says it is… confused :s
The cops here command absolutely no respect whatsoever, so yeah, the burden of proof should rightly be on the cops.
In fact, that same burden is on the traffic cops in the UK too, as far as I know. If they don’t have proof of your transgression, the courts will laugh them out the door.
I’ve not seen any evidence of cops here handing out undeserved tickets. Their laziness in handing out tickets seems to imply that there isn’t much incentive for them. The number of times I have NOT gotten a deserved ticket is the staggering thing. [/quote]
I’m not saying they currently hand out undeserved tickets. There’s currently no incentive for them to do so. What I’m saying is that if their livelihood depended upon it, then they certainly might, and probably would.
[quote]As for changing behavior, perhaps incentives are in order. What if we could convince the nation’s largest gas station chains, for example, to hand free lollipops (or somesuch) to all kids in cars (but only if they’re wearing their seatbelt) and on scooters (but only if they had properly fastened helmets on), with promotional posters: Treats for smart kids! Certified helmets for kids would be on sale on the stand next to the gas pump, with a government subsidy so they weren’t more expensive than night-market crap, and if the parents bought one and put it on the kid, the kid would get the lollipop.
Do you think it would work, and how could we convince the right people to get something like that moving?[/quote]
I think it’s certainly worth trying different approaches, in tandem if necessary. The “nag factor” can be pretty strong in other situations. It’s been applied to toy and food marketing, and also even to environmental education in some schools. It could be applied here, though in many ways, I have reservations about the government manipulating children to manipulate their parents.
The easiest way to get the police to take action on any particular area of crime is to increase the points they are allocated. Officers here are required to maintain a certain number of “points” for advancement, which are allocated for their successful handling (up to indictment) of cases of various types.
But the problem is to get the “kids without helmets” situation to be treated as a priority. Makers of real helmets would have some interest in this, of course, and then there’s the guys in hospital ERs who must be aware of the extent of this tragedy. In the U.S., in many cities, police treat unbuckled kids as a “child-endangerment” situation, which also wakes parents up to the prospect of facing big negative marks on their life by being branded an “unfit” mom or dad. In the end, hefty fines collected repeatedly are the only way to really get a change.
A huge part of the problem with the ticketing is typical Taiwan crap management of staff who wouldn’t understand the word “initiative” if it walked up and stole their mid-commuter fan tuan out of their mouths.
If you see a couple of cops staking out an intersection, giving tickets to those who turn right on red, that’s because the duty Sgt. sent them out, to that intersection, to give tickets to those who turn right on red.
If they see someone driving without a helmet, they probably wont do anything, because they were sent out to give tickets to those who turn right on red.
If they see a taxi make a berserker mid-block wildly uncontrolled U turn to grab a fare, they won’t do anything, because they were sent out to give tickets to those who turn right on red.
If the kid at 7-11 went postal and started stabbing customers with weenie skewers, they wouldn’t do anything, because, well, you get the picture.
Way back when I first came and none of the cops spoke English, we used to say that the only way you could get in trouble with the cops was if you stabbed Lee Teng-Hui through the heart with a rusty fork on national TV.
And then, only if the cops had been sent out to give tickets to people who stabbed Lee Teng-Hui through the heart with a rusty fork on national TV…
As for the enforcement measures, remember how a few months after they put the cameras on the freeway, the Citizen’s Rights groups managed to have most of them removed “because people were getting too many tickets” and it was violating their civil rights?
By, you know, catching them breaking the law and requiring that they succumb to a penalty.
