“I am writing is to tell you about a project the Ramstein Cadet Squadron at
Ramstein Air Base, Germany, is starting. The Landstuhl Regional Medical
Center (LRMC) here in Germany got an influx of about 500 wounded troops from
Iraq last week and more arrive almost daily. They arrive straight from the
battlefield, with only the torn, dirty, bloody clothes on their back. They
have no clothes, underwear, or toiletry items. The hospital provides them
with only a cotton gown or pajamas, robe, and disposable slippers. Some stay
only a few days before being sent to hospitals stateside, while others are
here up to several weeks. The military gives them a $250 voucher to buy
clothing and toiletries at the BX, but many are not ambulatory, and those
who are have to wait for a bus to get down to the BX on Ramstein 7 miles
away. The BX runs out of the clothing and it takes weeks for more to come
in. Those who can go to the BX still need something to wear to get there!”
I’m going to donate $100. I’d like to suggest to anyone else who is interested in donating that we pool our money in the name of the Forumosa community, Taiwan and send one bank draft.
The banking fees at both ends will total $40 or so dollars regardless of the size of the draft so a pooled total would make more sense.
[quote=“Traveller”]Whilst i appreciate what you are doing, surely it should be for the USG to properly and completely provide for them.
Why should the public have to get involved.[/quote]
Because the public WANTS to get involved.
Perhaps this is one thing that distinguishes Americans from Europeans.
I donated to www.adoptasniper.com – I don’t know anything about Spook’s group, but the guy who started and is running AAS is well enough known that I feel comfortable sending money his way.
Just looked at his link – Civil Air Patrol. Ok, let me know where to drop off some cash.
But I don’t think that the insurgents and guerillas and Baathists are going to want to donate money to the victims’ families. I mean they never did under Saddam. What makes you think that they would be willing to donate money to the 20,000 they have killed in the past 20 months? Or do you mean the US soldiers and the 5,000 to 7,000 that they have killed? Is it really necessary to give money to the families of terrorists and criminals and bombers of civilians? I thought only Saddam and Arafat did that? I mean I know that I wish MT would respect Bush and all but does he have to become a state sponsor of terrorism for this to happen? I would prefer it didn’t have to come to that.
I didn’t really understand your post Fred Smith, you seem a little confused about the whole thing. I thought that ‘giving money to terrorists and bombers of civillians’ was the suggestion made by Spook in the first place.
They believed they were serving their country and the cause of freedom and ended up paying a high personal price and that’s good enough for me.
I’m equally sympathetic towards the death and suffering of innocent Iraqi civilians.
I don’t believe either of them is responsible for the mess in Iraq. The culpability for that lies higher up the food chain, far from the bullets and shrapnel.
That’s where the real culprits are and I’m just not going to hold the average Joes who put themselves on the line in Iraq responsible for their cowardly schemes because I know what it’s like to be where they’re at, believing you’re doing the right thing.
Any money donated will go directly towards helping some seriously torn-up guys at Landstuhl Regional Medical Center clothe and care for themselves on their first days back in civilization.
I’m kicking in $100. Anyone who would like to donate please let me know and I’ll pm you with my office address. My secretary will hold the money until it’s all in and then buy a bank draft to send to Lt. Colonel Lori Noyes at Ramstein. My secretary will keep receipts of all transactions and I’ll make sure the money gets to the soldiers or is returned to donors.
This is an American patriotism thing. The good one. The one that moved our forefathers to leave the security of their homes and travel to the shores of Asia and Europe to help enslaved people free themselves from tyranny.
I don’t know if other countries feel it to the same degree that we do but it’s a strong force that transcends our political differences.
This request is really just directed at other American citizens here.
I understand that you direct this only at Americans, but I have to say that I think this is a very bad idea. Iraqis are starving, without water, electricity and jobs. The whole country is in a terrible mess and you would encourage people to donate money to the instruments that caused this totally unneccessary suffering. It is ok to be patriotic, I suppose, but how far would you be prepared to go with it?
This idea of yours is perverse Spook, and if I make some Americans think twice about sending money to troops then I will consider pissing-off a few patriots to be well worth it.
In sincerity…
[quote=“MaPoSquid”][quote=“Traveller”]Whilst i appreciate what you are doing, surely it should be for the USG to properly and completely provide for them.
Why should the public have to get involved.[/quote]
Because the public WANTS to get involved.
Perhaps this is one thing that distinguishes Americans from Europeans.
I donated to www.adoptasniper.com – I don’t know anything about Spook’s group, but the guy who started and is running AAS is well enough known that I feel comfortable sending money his way.
Just looked at his link – Civil Air Patrol. Ok, let me know where to drop off some cash.[/quote]
Mapo, buts that does not answer the question as to why they want to get involved, some will genuinely want to do their bit as so to speak, others do it because that crappy administration in Washington is unable or unwilling to look after its own troops properly.
You donated to adoptasniper for what reason, out of the pure goodness of your heart, or that from their website it would appear that they are improperly looked after and supported even to the point of not being given the proper equipment.
But of course, you like Fred, can only the sun that you think shines from Bush’s arse.
[quote]I understand that you direct this only at Americans, but I have to say that I think this is a very bad idea. Iraqis are starving, without water, electricity and jobs. The whole country is in a terrible mess and you would encourage people to donate money to the instruments that caused this totally unneccessary suffering. It is ok to be patriotic, I suppose, but how far would you be prepared to go with it?
This idea of yours is perverse Spook, and if I make some Americans think twice about sending money to troops then I will consider pissing-off a few patriots to be well worth it.
In sincerity…[/quote]
I do not think that Iraqis are starving and without water and food and electricity and jobs because of America. That was the case under Saddam and sanctions. Unemployment has dropped from 80 percent to around 35 percent and some estimate that in the peaceful areas it is only 15 percent. Does not sound like a problem to me. Also, remember that it was the Taliban in Afghanistan who were causing people to starve. The Americans went in with their big bad guns and now 4 million refugees that used to be farming their kids out as drug runners and prostitutes in Iran and Pakistan are back home. I think your view of the big bad evil American soldier therefore is somewhat misguided. I also think that if you look at the total death counts in Iraq the vast majority are being caused not by Americans but by Baathists and Muslim terrorists. When was the last time that American soldiers set off car bombs in crowded IRAQI markets?
Spook:
I take your point and a truly felt and sincere gesture and though we disagree, I respect the fact that you want to contribute. It is a noble gesture and worthy of emulation.
As a patriotic American who has done his military service (yes, I know it was during peace time but then again I served under three (or was it four?) presidents with a little more sense than the current one), I volunteer to let George Bush donate his salary to this cause. He sent them to war, not me!
[quote]
I understand that you direct this only at Americans, but I have to say that I think this is a very bad idea. Iraqis are starving, without water, electricity and jobs. The whole country is in a terrible mess and you would encourage people to donate money to the instruments that caused this totally unneccessary suffering. It is ok to be patriotic, I suppose, but how far would you be prepared to go with it? [/quote]
I am merely responding to your mistaken assertion. Do you have evidence to the contrary that any of the figures that I have provided are inaccurate or questionable? If not, then I assume that is why you are switching tacks to suggest that I am angry. Not at all, I am merely pointing out that you were wrong. And you are wrong.
Traveller, on the other hand, has great difficulty absorbing the simplest of information. I believe that it has now (hope) that is has now been adequately explained to his satisfaction. Notice the smiling face at the end of my statement.
Now, after looking over this evidence Deano would you still suggest that it is the Americans on this forum that do not know what they are talking about and are brainwashed by the media? The same media that has never reported this World Bank statistics in bold headlines. Or would you say that it might be you who is reading certain newspapers and therefore is getting only half the picture at best? What do you think? I will look forward to any facts “true” ones as Rascal would say to buttress your views.
Here’s another way of saying what I’ve been trying to say:
“No matter what the belief is about whether the war is right or wrong, the soldier is never at fault,” (Sgt. Allen Maresh, a reservist from Dodge, Nebraska) said. “It’s the politicians who make the decisions. We do what we’re told.” . . .
There are so many reservists and National Guard soldiers like Maresh in the Iraq theater. They never imagined that they would be fighting this kind of war, but they’re doing it anyway – not always cheerfully, but dutifully. . .
When you ask these soldiers what they’re fighting for, they don’t give very complicated answers. Some mention Iraqis they’ve met and say they want to give them a chance to rebuild the country. Others talk about the “bad guys” who are attacking U.S. and Iraqi troops. A few are openly skeptical about the war. Among troops in Baghdad in July, bootleg copies of Michael Moore’s antiwar film, “Fahrenheit 9/11,” were making the rounds. But the most common sentiment you hear, which is probably the core motivation for soldiers in every war, is that they’re fighting for their buddies so they’ll all get through alive.
I hear you Spook. Every army is the same in this respect, but in my opinion this is no excuse. But then I am a bit of an intolerant old peace-loving liberal who wishes there were no armies, no wars, and no Bushes.
But its christmas eve, I am getting drunk, and beginning to feel a bit sentimental so happy christmas to you man.
interesting thread in that in seperates those who oppose the war, but still care about the welfare of the troops and those who believe helping the troops inadvertently helps bush and so refuse.
not really a viable thing for people in taiwan to send packages to iraq, but there are a couple of orgs who’ll send packages on your behalf. and anyone currently in the states can use the new usps bulk priority boxes which seem tailor-made for this purpose. after the holiday rush i’m gonna see if anyone over there needs my gamecube which i never play anymore.
even if you can’t send anything, take some time to read the entries.
The money that MaPoSquid and I are donating on Monday is going directly to the Civil Air Patrol chapter at Ramstein Air Force Base in Germany which is in the thick of things where wounded are first coming back from Iraq.
The system there is currently being overwhelmed by the influx of wounded and until it has a chance to catch up in typically slow military procurement style guys are going without such basics as clean clothing and personal items. You can look at the link I provided for more details.
The CAP will use the money to go to local stores to buy what’s needed and distribute it directly to soldiers.
