Help needed, calling all generous forumosians

Discussion Open Forum
1

There have been times where I’ve had financial trouble. But I’d be too proud to ask for help.

So here I am asking on behalf of someone else. He has no idea I’m writing this and I hope I don’t offend him (but I doubt it will). There is a forumosa member who spends a good deal of his time and money helping strays. We have a few such members, but most are involved with Animals Taiwan which helps them with expenses.

The member I’m refering to now does it on his own. I just read this post made by him (bobepine’s top post on the page): forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopi … 55f973892a

And thought I’d come in here to beg for anyone with some spare cash for a good cause to send it his way.

This is not an “animal” post…so mods please don’t move it. It’s a “money” post.

If you read the above post and want to learn more about Lucky you can read here: forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopi … 18&start=0

If you decide you want to help out a little just send bobepine a PM…using his bank number you can easily send a few hudred dollars to him from 7-11 on your way to work.

Or maybe there is someone in Kaohsiung with a good sized yard…or some other way to help.

It just sucks to try and do something good…and instead of being rewarded you are penalized (loss of money…more hassels). I know being good should be it’s own reward…but it’d be nice to at least break even, if you know what I mean.

Another important link for those of you who don’t visit the “pet” forum is this: animalstaiwan.org/diary/ <— you can see here what these people do with your donations.

C’mon people!..“karma”, “come back ten-fold”…almost every religion and non-religion say it’s good to give :wink: .

.

2

Thanks Mordeth! I’m sure bobepine will appreciate all the help he can get… Kaohsiung residents, please check out the pets forum - there’s gonna be a meeting on the 15th/16th April, and if you can, or would like to help out in any way, we’d like to see you there.

3

I will do my best to fly down for the meeting - make sure someone keeps reminding me. :wink:

Bobepine, I’m transferring some cash to you today. I know how you feel, and much as it feels like you’re at the end of your tether, you’ll find that as support builds up, it will be a more and more fulfilling thing that you are doing. There’s always a bit of stress involved, and some days are much worse than others (like today), but I’m certain tomorrow you’ll be feeling refreshed and ready to go back into battle. Bad times at the beginning of any project are merely a test to see if you’re ready for the many successes ahead. Don’t let them put off your course.

Good idea to start this thread, BTW, Mordeth. :bravo:

4

I sent bobepine a PM asking what happened next with regards to the guy kicking his dog. He sent me back a PM and he didn’t mention this thread…so I’m pretty sure he doesn’t know of it…which is cool. But then again if people were sending him PMs to offer help…then that’d be cooler.

5

I appreciate the good intentions here, but I could not give money to a lost cause. If people are unable or unwilling to take full responsibility for the animals they help, then they shouldn’t get involved. I think putting down these animals may be everyone’s best interest. Maybe you can start a euthanasia fund.

I picked up a stray puppy that was wandering into the highway because I didn’t want to see it turned to pulp in front of me. It was, as most puppies are, very cute. But I knew I was not in a position to care for it, so I drove a few hundred meters up the mountain away from the highway where it probably didn’t have any better odds in the long run but wouldn’t end up as road kill.

Short of Euthanasia, I met one crazy cat lady who set humane traps, then had the animals fixed, that is spayed or neutered. This would also be an option for people who are too emotionally involved to euthanize.

6

I don’t understand how your comment applies to the situation at hand. He found a dying dog…he saved it…end of story. How is he "unable or unwilling to take full responsibility for the animals "? He didn’t even ask for money…I did…on his behalf. I’m sure he’s not living on the street eating out of garbage cans. But since he’s invested so much of his own money into helping this dog…and more than he expected to…I thought it might be a nice gesture for some of us to help him out. That’s all.

Animals Taiwan does do CNR (Catch N Release) where they neuter them and give them shots to stay healthy and then let them go.

If you’ve made up some excuses to keep your own concious guilt free each time you walk by a dying dog…then good for you. Some of us others aren’t so easily able to convince ourselves that we are useless.

I’ve saved about 5 or 6 dogs myself. Most of which would have been dead by now…but thanks to my interventions they are still happy and healthy (most of them). Just because I decide to help a dog…doesn’t mean I have to keep it for life. There are other options. And I while I was helping one of those dogs…it would have been nice if someone else had offered some support…just like I’m trying to do for Bobepine.

7

Lucky seems to be anything but a lost cause, but of course you can do whatever you want with your money.

If that were the case, there would be no AnimalsTaiwan, and many of the 100 or so animals we have helped in the last year would be dead or remain in terrible pain or suffering. We could not do this alone; we need people to help us.

In both instances you have avoided using the word kill, as that is what you are recommending. Each year in the States, five million dogs a year are killed … though the owners who abandoned them would say they were put to sleep. It covers up just what a nasty deed we are capable of in the name of convenience - because that’s all it is. I don’t think Lucky would believe that being killed would be in his best interest, and I applaud Bobepine for knowing that and making a huge difference in that dog’s life.

And a euthanasia fund? You mean a killing fund. Man is the cuplrit here and dogs are the victims, and the best you can come up with is to kill the victims?

It seems that you have selfish concerns here.

There were so many other actions you could have taken, but at least you removed the dog from immediate danger, and I thank you for that.

Emotionally involved? Once again, you seem to be ignoring all concern for the animal and instead worrying about the human’s feelings. I think this is a sad reflection of the society we live in - that a person’s feelings are more important than a non-human animal’s right to life.

Killing a non-human animal can be taken so lightly, and your post is a great example of this. We kill the animal, therefore we have helped it? I find that to be an abhorrently selfish approach to the problem.

You almost had the real answer to all of this, but you suggested it for the wrong reasons. the catch-and-kill policy has been in practice here for over ten years, and, as everywhere else it has been tried, it doesn’t work; CNR, however - whereby strays are caught, treated, vaccinated, neutered, and released - has proven to be not only the most humane solution, but also the most effective. It is the only method of stray management that actually reduces the population while also improving the general health of the animals by preventing the spread of disease. Of course, it needs to be backed up with education of the pet-owning public.

If the best you can do is to move a puppy out of immediate danger to prevent you seeing something you won’t like, you do that. But don’t criticize those who unselfishly give up valuable time, money, and other resources in order to make a difference not only to the lives of individual non-human animals, but also to the population as a whole.

Next time you see an animal in danger, give me a call and will help you do more than hide the problem: 0920 620 109.

Sean

8

Mmm, getting back to the topic which was MONEY…

Many years ago I picked up a young cat that had been run over, and was in a pitiful state. I took it to the nearest vet, which happened to be where I took my own cat, thinking I’d just pay to have it put down. The vet looked at it and said he thought he could save it and I said it wasn’t my cat and wouldn’t be prepared to pay a big bill for it. Yeah, maybe some won’t like that statement but it was really smashed up and it’s my money. My vet turned around and said he’d treat the cat for free if I would pay for the drugs and drips, which he estimated to be a few thousand. In the end it wasn’t even that much after he’d discounted the drugs. He neutered the cat, gave it it’s shots and put it back on the street. With all the scars etc it looked like some kind of Frankencat and noone I knew was even remotely interested in it.
It’s hard to go begging I know, but I think very few vets are in it for the money… it’s worth mentioning to them that you are trying to rescue the animal and ask for a charitable discount.

9

[quote=“redwagon”]
It’s hard to go begging I know, but I think very few vets are in it for the money… it’s worth mentioning to them that you are trying to rescue the animal and ask for a charitable discount. [/quote]

I’ll agree with that. A vet near my house gave me well over 50% off for helping a dog. In the end I gave them more money than they asked for since they were being so nice.

10

[quote]Quote:
I think putting down these animals may be everyone’s best interest. Maybe you can start a euthanasia fund.

In both instances you have avoided using the word kill[/quote]

Let me clarify: I think KILLING these animals may be in everyone’s best interest (ok maybe not the dog’s, but on the other hand if I were terminally ill, starving, and homeless I would take death as a sweet release). Maybe you can start a KILLING fund.

[quote]Killing a non-human animal can be taken so lightly…

If you’ve made up some excuses to keep your own concious guilt free each time you walk by a dying dog…[/quote]

This is why I steer clear of the pet forum. I could argue that animals are food, but you’re probably a vegetarian too. Yes, I put the needs of humans above the life of an animal. Your organization sounds like a nice pet project and you may even do some good, so best of luck with it, but it’s not my cause.

11

Grrr… double post… apologies…

12

Huh? Do you eat dogs and cats? Animals Taiwan is not in the business, as far as I know, of saving all the pigs, goats, cows and foul of Taiwan from your dinner table.

Is it impossible to be concerned for both humans and animals? And how is saving a dog or cat that has a chance to live placing its life above the needs of a human?

That’s fine. Continue to help with human causes. Its all good.

Still, I don’t see any reason to kill a dog or a cat that has a chance to live a healthy life. :s

13

There’s already plenty of organizations doing very nice business killing dogs. You might have seen them on the news now and then. Think of your friendly local government. And as a method of controlling strays, its proved very inefficient indeed.

And you mentioned that you took a dog out of harm’s way and let it go in the mountains. I’m wondering why you didn’t just bash it on the head with a rock. It would have been in everyone’s best interests, you said so yourself.

I’m not a vegetarian, but I can’t remember the last time I dined on a scabby street dog.

Anyway, if its not your cause, I’m at a bit of a loss as to why you should interject with a “don’t,” when someone asks for a bit of help. Why should you care what other people choose to do with their money and time?

14

That’s a major party foul. For that, you’re gonna have to be punished with our “Beer Bong of Liquid Death”. :laughing:

15

Where has anyone posting in this thread suggested sacrificing the welfare of a human for that of an animal?

So then please politely bugger off. It’s not as if anyone forced you to read this thread, much less to give a damn.

16

[quote=“trapjaw”]Thanks Mordeth! I’m sure bobepine will appreciate all the help he can get… Kaohsiung residents, please check out the pets forum - there’s gonna be a meeting on the 15th/16th April, and if you can, or would like to help out in any way, we’d like to see you there.[/quote]Yes, I do appreciate it, a whole lot in fact. It’s not the first time mordeth supported us folks down south.

I say “us” because while it may look like it’s bobepine on his own, it’s not quite like that. My wife plays a big part in this, often the hardest part. Then there’s mordeth who’s supported us in many ways now and there’s the many other forumosans who have supported us either with some funds or with encouraging words. I wouldn’t go without mentioning the good folks involved with AnimalsTaiwan, Stray Dog and of course trapjaw who always has a stray in his care lately and for everything else he did that would take too long to write here.

At is basically a handful of active volunteers and what they’ve achieved is truly heart-warming. I can’t see why “we” south-dwelling animal lovers couldn’t do the same. Me, bobepine, I’m nothing more than one guy who likes animals like many of you and I spent a little bit of time and a little bit of money to help them. Trust me, I’m not the only one.

That’s why we are having a meeting. There are a lot of people who’d like to help strays in Kaohsiung, and they just don’t know where to start. Neither do we to be honest so we want to get together and find a way to spend a little less while helping a little bit more. I’m sure we can easily do that. We don’t have to perform miracles, each life we improve is enough as far as I’m concerned but I also know we can do even more if we amalgamate our efforts.

It looks like it will be a lunch meeting on Saturday, April 15th. We have to decide where the meeting will take place but everyone interested who emailed us will be contacted this weekend and I will also post about it.

Warm thanks to you mordeth and to everyone who offered support in this thread.

Looking forward to meet as many of you as possible on the 15th, bring a pen, some paper and a friend if you can. :slight_smile:

bobepine

animalsTaiwanKaohsiung@hotmail.com

17

Thanks to sponsorship from a fantastic and very generous Forumosan, I will be there, with some AT merchandise that you can sell to raise funds. :slight_smile:

Looking forward to meeting the K-Town crew. :sunglasses:

18

[quote=“dumas”][quote]Quote:
I think putting down these animals may be everyone’s best interest. Maybe you can start a euthanasia fund.

In both instances you have avoided using the word kill[/quote]

Let me clarify: I think KILLING these animals may be in everyone’s best interest (ok maybe not the dog’s, but on the other hand if I were terminally ill, starving, and homeless I would take death as a sweet release). Maybe you can start a KILLING fund.

[quote]Killing a non-human animal can be taken so lightly…

If you’ve made up some excuses to keep your own concious guilt free each time you walk by a dying dog…[/quote]

This is why I steer clear of the pet forum. I could argue that animals are food, but you’re probably a vegetarian too. Yes, I put the needs of humans above the life of an animal. Your organization sounds like a nice pet project and you may even do some good, so best of luck with it, but it’s not my cause.[/quote]

Everyone has their opinion, but if this is not your cause, then I’m puzzled as to why you are contributing to this thread… oh I get it, the killing fund.

:laughing:

19

Okay. Bobopine, you rock. Your wife does. Straydog rocks. Mordeth rocks.
Lots of people do.

But to those who are all like ‘Helping is stupid, eh.’… Then don’t help. But shit, give some props to those who do.

(the preceeding ebonics has been rbought to you by Vicks… the proud makers of NyQuil.)

20

This is a thread in the “Open Forum”, so why wouldn’t you expect, well, discussion? Why would you expect that only people who were 100% in support of what you’d posted would reply?

Just saying. There ARE different ways to look at this issue, too. Can you not see why someone who felt that saving all the strays was not the best way to go might comment as he did to an appeal for money for someone who was volunteering to save them?

What’s more, I don’t know where Objecting Poster lives, but I’m in the States, and I have to admit, I don’t usually react well to request for money on behalf of anyone for anything, given the fact that every 10 meters there’s a group of people with their hands out. Help send our kids to the State Championships. Help us buy pompoms for the cheerleading squad. Help us pay our football coach. Help save Fluffy. Give to the Police Benevolent Society (although we’re a hired company and the police get only 20% of what comes in). Buy Girl Scout Cookies (although they get only 15%). Help my boss get his lobotomy. (Okay, THAT one I might have contributed to while still in Taiwan! :smiley: ) Help Buffy fight her deportation. But you get what I mean. We’re even being shaken down (because you can hardly refuse, can you?) for money for a “gift” of cash (there’s an interesting concept) for the conductor of our small community orchestra, who IS paid already. Everybody has his hand open. It’s true that collective action is needed to raise funds, but these days people are being overloaded with requests.

I think the response might have had a lot to do with the statement that the Saver of Animals does it of his own free will and pays for it out of his own pocket. Even though someone’s requesting money on his behalf, instead of him doing it directly, one reads “he does it because he wants to” and then puts “so give him some money” on the end of it and the net result is perhaps not ideal. (I’m not being sarcastic saying “Saver of Animals” and so on, I just can’t be arsed to look up the real names. Sorry!)