Help needed, calling all generous forumosians

Discussion Open Forum
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You’re absolutely right. And those who disagreed with the OP were absolutely right to respond with their own opinions re the OP’s post.

Yes. And those who disagree with his opinion responded. The OP is free to continue this discussion.

Its just a request… not a demand. No gun or knife involved. :wink:

But, some people haven’t the time to do the actual work of saving the animals. But, they still care and appreciate the efforts of those doing the work. What they do have is money. Those doing the work need the money. Surely there is no harm in soliciting donations for a cause so that those who care but haven’t the time to help with effort, can, if they so desire, make a donation.

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That’s fine, Tigerman, and all valid points. My point was just that the OP couldn’t really expect no one to disagree, and that there might even be reasons why one might disagree with the post, or the work, or both.

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[quote=“ironlady”]This is a thread in the “Open Forum”, so why wouldn’t you expect, well, discussion? Why would you expect that only people who were 100% in support of what you’d posted would reply?

Just saying. There ARE different ways to look at this issue, too. Can you not see why someone who felt that saving all the strays was not the best way to go might comment as he did to an appeal for money for someone who was volunteering to save them?

What’s more, I don’t know where Objecting Poster lives, but I’m in the States, and I have to admit, I don’t usually react well to request for money on behalf of anyone for anything, given the fact that every 10 meters there’s a group of people with their hands out. Help send our kids to the State Championships. Help us buy pompoms for the cheerleading squad. Help us pay our football coach. Help save Fluffy. Give to the Police Benevolent Society (although we’re a hired company and the police get only 20% of what comes in). Buy Girl Scout Cookies (although they get only 15%). Help my boss get his lobotomy. (Okay, THAT one I might have contributed to while still in Taiwan! :smiley: ) Help Buffy fight her deportation. But you get what I mean. We’re even being shaken down (because you can hardly refuse, can you?) for money for a “gift” of cash (there’s an interesting concept) for the conductor of our small community orchestra, who IS paid already. Everybody has his hand open. It’s true that collective action is needed to raise funds, but these days people are being overloaded with requests.

I think the response might have had a lot to do with the statement that the Saver of Animals does it of his own free will and pays for it out of his own pocket. Even though someone’s requesting money on his behalf, instead of him doing it directly, one reads “he does it because he wants to” and then puts “so give him some money” on the end of it and the net result is perhaps not ideal. (I’m not being sarcastic saying “Saver of Animals” and so on, I just can’t be arsed to look up the real names. Sorry!)[/quote]

Well as far as I know. This is the only “plea” for money on the forum (I’m sure there are others…but it’s the only one I’ve seen). So I don’t think anyone is being “overloaded with requests” here.

Plus, giving money is the easy way out. It’s the coward’s way out…because he doesn’t have to get his hands dirty. The only type of person lower…would be someone who did nothing at all. And I know I’m not going to get anyone to help by calling names… :blush:

I just think it’s nice to know that with one small gesture. You can make a person’s and a dog’s life better. With most charities you don’t really know what your money is doing…and you can bet your ass that some of it is paying some guy’s salary.

But in this case the “charity” in question (bobepine) wasn’t asking anyone for money. He just made a comment in one of his posts that he’s spent over 20,000nt helping one stray. And I thought to myself “That’s a bit much for one person to take on such responsiblity…there are thousands of posters on here…if just a small amount of them sent a few hundred dollars…then all of Bob’s immediate troubles will be taken care of.”

And I often here foreigner’s complaining about how people in Asia treat animals…and how we foreigners have higher moral values…yeah, well…I’m not seeing much of them here.

Me: Hey everyone, this guy is doing a kind selfless act…wanna help him out a bit?

Others: Go fuck yourself…I just came to this country to make good money…I’m not here to help with it’s problems. If he wants to be a sucker and try to stop suffering in dying animals and give them a life of hope and love…then that’s his problem!

Me: :s …?

.

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Cowards???

My wife and I donate a good chunk of money every year to various causes, and we’re cowards in your mind? Why? We work hard and work takes up nearly all of our time, and the leftover time is spent with our son, family and friends. I don’t see anyone sending the money back. I assume they are grateful, and not so dismissive or our good intentions and compassion as you seem to be.

You should be a farmer mordeth. All you’d have to do to ensure a bumper crop would to talk to the field.

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yeah dude, you might want to rethink that paragraph. some people can’t make the time between all their other commitments, and donating is a great thing to do - you didn’t intend to (i think), but it did come off poorly …

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[quote=“ironlady”]This is a thread in the “Open Forum”, so why wouldn’t you expect, well, discussion? Why would you expect that only people who were 100% in support of what you’d posted would reply?[/quote]The way I look at it is this thread wasn’t really started for the sake of discussion. This is a discussion forum however and if anyone feels that this is the one out of countless other threads where they want to be opinionated, I suppose it’s fair play but it is not a very good way to encourage whoever is concerned regardless what cause whoever believes in. Either it’s Fluffy’s friends, the kids on a baseball team, the heart foundation or the stray animals in Taiwan. Just think about what it would be like if Fluffy’s friends would criticise the kids on the baseball team. The kids on the baseball team are criticising the heart foundation and the heart foundation is criticising another three non-for profit organizations and so on. In other words and to answer you question above, I think that given the context, negative responses are questionable in terms of ethics. From there it becomes quite subjective and we very well may just end up going around in circles and that sure will not help anything or anyone.

[quote]
Just saying. There ARE different ways to look at this issue, too. Can you not see why someone who felt that saving all the strays was not the best way to go might comment as he did to an appeal for money for someone who was volunteering to save them? [/quote]Personally, I enjoy a good debate. Post what you think it’s fine by me. Suggesting a killing fund to animal lovers however is somewhat sarcastic and out of place IMO. Like suggesting a killing fund for aids sufferers in Africa. It’s like telling the kids that they can forget about having a coach, like telling Fluffy’s friends that Fluffy can die and “I couldn’t be arsed” about it. Like I said though, I personally find it interesting to discover what others think and on that note, thanks for your post.

[quote]I think the response might have had a lot to do with the statement that the Saver of Animals does it of his own free will and pays for it out of his own pocket. Even though someone’s requesting money on his behalf, instead of him doing it directly, one reads “he does it because he wants to” and then puts “so give him some money” on the end of it and the net result is perhaps not ideal. (I’m not being sarcastic saying “Saver of Animals” and so on, I just can’t be arsed to look up the real names. Sorry!)[/quote]Don’t be sorry, glad to hear your thoughts but to tell you the truth, I find that to be the worse thing you could say to someone who just meant to help someone else and it’s difficult for me to comprehend why someone would bother with posting in that manner. It’s not like we need funds to sell drugs to your kids or anything like that but if all else fails we might just have to go back to doing that. :wink:

bobepine

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All valid points, ironlady, and I for one will refer you to Tigerman’s and Bobepine’s responses if you want my thoughts.

The only thing I’d like to add is regarding this:

To many of us, it really isn’t a matter of choice, of what we want to do; it’s what we feel like we should do, we must do - what we would like others to do if it were us who were suffering and in need of assistance. I simply can’t walk past any animal, human or otherwise, and ignore it when it is in obvious need of help. Because I know there are too many out there who won’t - so I feel like I have to.

I suspect Bobepine and Mordeth are the same; we simply cannot ignore the suffering of another. Just as you probably could not walk past a maimed baby lying in the street, so we are unable to ignore those we understand to be our fellow beings who are in a similar predicament.

There’s only one way the world will become a better place, and that is to make it so yourself.

Sean

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Yep. :rainbow:

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The coward comment was more self directed. And maybe not the best choice of word. There is a dog that I could probably take the time to help right now. But instead I asked Stray Dog to handle it…and in return I’ll probably just make another donation to Animals Taiwan. So you see? Easy way out. That’s all I meant.

Or in bobepine’s situation I have an open roof that could probably house his dog…so I could get in my car go down to pick him up and it’s housing problem would be solved. But will I? No. I’ll just send some money (when I can). Again…I’m choosing the way easy way out.

But to do less…to do nothing…well, for some that isn’t a choice.

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[quote=“Mordeth”]The coward comment was more self directed. And maybe not the best choice of word. There is a dog that I could probably take the time to help right now. But instead I asked Stray Dog to handle it…and in return I’ll probably just make another donation to Animals Taiwan. So you see? Easy way out. That’s all I meant.

Or in bobepine’s situation I have an open roof that could probably house his dog…so I could get in my car go down to pick him up and it’s housing problem would be solved. But will I? No. I’ll just send some money (when I can). Again…I’m choosing the way easy way out.

But to do less…to do nothing…well, for some that isn’t a choice.[/quote]

I see. Well, then I apologize for biting your head off. I do not agree that donating money is the easy way out. In working, you make money to support yourself so that others do not have to support you. On top of that, the more you make, the more you may use, after your bills are paid, in the ways that give you the most satisfaction.

We have to accept the reality that the problems that need our help, whether dogs or people or natural disasters, will never go away. But that is no reason to give up or to curse others who do not feel the way you or I do about a problem. Maybe, if you believe in a grand scheme of things, we are supposed to fight the problem, not solve it. Accept the fact that you can do some things, but unless you’re Warren Buffet, you can’t do everything.

peace

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Meanwhile, however, my ex-boss who I believe is still in Taiwan could definitely use some cash toward his lobotomy… :smiley: