Here's my plan - any flaws?

Work Teaching English in Taiwan
1

Hello everyone,

Well I’ve read through the forums and various websites. Sign me up. I’m coming to Taiwan. Below I’ve sketched some of my plan and posed some of my remaining questions. See any flaws?

  1. I’d like to fly from NY with a one-way ticket to Taiwan and a 1-month tourist visa. Good idea? Would it be better if I brought a one-way departure ticket (to HK, for example) with me?

  2. I hope to find a legal job within a few weeks. From that job, I need sponsorship for a work permit, ARC so that I can obtain a resident VISA.

  3. To obtain the Visa I must depart Taiwan. I’d like to use the HK ticket for this.

  4. I’ve completed a degree but I don’t yet have a record of this. I should have the actual degree in the spring. Is there a problem with me arriving in Taiwan before I have the actual degree?

Thanks for helping,
Mark

2

[quote=“mgreen”]Hello everyone,

Well I’ve read through the forums and various websites. Sign me up. I’m coming to Taiwan. Below I’ve sketched some of my plan and posed some of my remaining questions. See any flaws?

  1. I’d like to fly from NY with a one-way ticket to Taiwan and a 1-month tourist visa. Good idea? Would it be better if I brought a one-way departure ticket (to HK, for example) with me?

  2. I hope to find a legal job within a few weeks. From that job, I need sponsorship for a work permit, ARC so that I can obtain a resident VISA.

  3. To obtain the Visa I must depart Taiwan. I’d like to use the HK ticket for this.

  4. I’ve completed a degree but I don’t yet have a record of this. I should have the actual degree in the spring. Is there a problem with me arriving in Taiwan before I have the actual degree?

Thanks for helping,
Mark[/quote]

Good decision Mark. Best of luck to you. Here’s my advice, take it or don’t.

  1. You can arrive without an onward ticket, but it’s tricky and not really a good idea. Unless you simply can’t afford the return portion or some other option, come prepared to leave within 60 days. I used an itinerary and am currently here without an onward ticket. I suspect I was lucky rather than within the laws. If you get a 60 day visa, u may be able to avoid a visa run. That is if your eventual employer is on the ball and can get the mountain of paperwork processed before your 60 days is up. There are even stories about getting a small extension on that 60 day visa if you can get your school to give you a letter confirming a job offer. This too can be tricky as schools feel they are admitting to employing you before you are legally entitled to work. Point being, get a 60 day visitor visa and you may save yourself a trip to HK.

  2. Very good idea to give yourself 2 or so weeks to jobhunt. You can develop your demo and negotiation skills this way and not get locked into a one year contract with an incompetent school. (lots of those around, especially Kojen).

  3. See 1).

  4. My understanding is that you will need the original of your degree. I have heard of some schools accepting a photocopy, but the fact remains that you will need the documentation. I haven’t ever been asked for transcripts, although I have heard of this being done. Suffice it to say, you may be better off waiting for the sheepskin.

3

I don’t advise you to come over without your original degree if you want to obtain a work permit. Also, do not travel on anything other than a 60-day tourist visa. It takes minimum 4 weeks for your school to get all the docs processed. You need to allow extra time. It’s costly to leave the country and with a bit of planning, you can most likely avoid that.

With some searching, you may find a travel agency that will give you a dummy return trip itinerary.

I am a good fan of Kojen as I believe they are an excellent school to work at for your first year. Sure, the pay is a bit low and they may have some flaws (fewer than many, though) but they provide good training, have teacher trainer’s on-site and they’re honest.

4

[quote=“autumn489”]
I am a good fan of Kojen as I believe they are an excellent school to work at for your first year. Sure, the pay is a bit low and they may have some flaws (fewer than many, though) but they provide good training, have teacher trainer’s on-site and they’re honest.[/quote]

Except thateveryone I knew that worked for them was given an extremely hard time when they tried to leave. Yes, at the end of their contract. They are vindictive and petty and should be avoided at all costs. Yes…I am a better teacher now, but that is because I made myself a better teacher. We were not given any training. In fact, suggesting new ideas branded me a trouble maker.

You don’t want to come back here in a year and say "Toe, you were so right, why didn’t I listen to you. :imp: ", do you?

5

When I first decided to come to Taiwan . . . back when dinosaurs walked the Earth . . . a lot of my friends from grad school who were from Taiwan told me to just come the way you are planning . . . I never really had that kind of courage . . . instead, I contacted schools here affiliated with my university and got a “visiting scholar” appointment at a national school . . . I had decided I would only come if I already had legal and legitimate status . . . for me, it was the right decision as from that position I was able to move on to what I consider a much better position, with stability and no fears of getting reamed or deported. Many folks do show up and get jobs fresh off the boat . . . however, I would sugest knowing what you want to do here and having appropriate credentials/qualifications in hand when you get here so you can get started right away rather than floating in some amorphous maybe-land as you look for an appropriate position, skirting legal status as you search for a job . . . regardless, beware of unscrupulous folks who promise the moon “next time” as it hardly ever comes and without a real contract or legal status you have no legal recourse as the unscrupulous bushiban owner gets a token fine and you get deported.

6

Yeah, someone doing things legally! Good on yer.

Generally, you need the onward ticket to get the 60 day visa. Fly o/w to Hong Kong, buy a return from there, and then get your 60-day visa.

If you can get an extendable visa then so much the better. Offer a letter explaining why you want it - you want to check out the schools before deciding where to study, for instance.

You need to supply signed photocopies of your degree certificate to start the work permit process. Your school may ask for something else, but that’s just them being stupid.

The process of getting the work permit takes 4-5 weeks usually. Once you have it you can get an extension (on an extendable visa) yourself. If your visa is not extendable you may have to flit back to HK. Whenever I’ve been there with my paperwork in order I’ve found them very helpful.

Yes, take your time about finding a job. But remember that CNY is the time when a lot of teachers relocate, so there’ll be more jobs at the end of January than at the end of Feb. People bitch about Kojen, Hess etc. You don’t get to be that big by really fucking people around. I found Hess to be fine as employers, and they made no probs for me when I quit. Several people have recommended them as an ideal way to start your career here.

7

[quote=“Toe Save”][quote=“autumn489”]
I am a good fan of Kojen as I believe they are an excellent school to work at for your first year. Sure, the pay is a bit low and they may have some flaws (fewer than many, though) but they provide good training, have teacher trainer’s on-site and they’re honest.[/quote]

Except thateveryone I knew that worked for them was given an extremely hard time when they tried to leave. Yes, at the end of their contract. They are vindictive and petty and should be avoided at all costs. Yes…I am a better teacher now, but that is because I made myself a better teacher. We were not given any training. In fact, suggesting new ideas branded me a trouble maker.

You don’t want to come back here in a year and say "Toe, you were so right, why didn’t I listen to you. :imp: ", do you?[/quote]

Actually, I’ve heard that some people were given a hard time when they wanted to leave. How so? I left August 2002 and had absolutely no problems whatsoever. I’m back now (must update my location) and am teaching at a high school. In so many ways, I feel lucky to have been given this job. I still stand firm. Kojen is a good school to work at for your first year. It’s definitely not perfect but overlooking the imperfections; ie, "it’s always the teacher’s fault, never the student’s, and other annoying problems, a new teacher can be well-launched after a year at Kojen or other large bushiban.

I try not to make blanket statements such as “they’re vindictive and petty”. Your experience and some others was such but mine wasn’t. I don’t agree they should be avoided at all costs. Perhaps if I’d gone back there, my experience might have been different second time around. I dunno.

I had pretty good teacher training, asked questions from other teachers at times and introduced my own instinctive style into the mix. Got good feedback from a TT observing my classes too and learned lots.

As far as your new ideas not being accepted, don’t take it personally. I think it’s general Taiwan thinking over here that’s not specific to Kojen. I’ve tried to introduce some changes at my high school and have been shot down; ie, give me another teacher so my classes will only have 25 students in them instead of 50!! :cry:

8

Good point about Chinese New Year.

9

this happened to me so heed this warning:

do not come over until you have yuor actual degree (copy of degree, whatever) ie: do not come until you have had your graduation ceremony. You WILL NOT be able to get an arc.
I came over 3 months before my graduation, with a letter from the uni. stating that my degree would only be released after graduation and my uni. transcripts having been told by my school this would be alright. It was not!! You need a copy of your actual degree for your ARC otherwise your application WILL be denied, and man…after getting here that’s really the last thing you need.

10

Thanks for all the feedback guys.

The warning about arriving without a degree is much appreciated. Are there other options available to me if I arrive without a degree?

My understanding is that to do this legally I need an ARC and a work permit. Do people work without degrees? Do many buxibans hire illegally? Does anybody have any illegal experiences to share with me?

Thanks,
Mark

11

Many people will disagree with me but as a former recruiter, I happen to know 100% for sure that people in Taipei can be hired without degrees. I doubt that those same people would get work permits if they applied to any of the counties or outside of Taipei. If they have a certificate or a diploma from an accredited institution, they will get their work permits when applying inside Taipei.

Before you disagree with me on this one guys, I’d like to add that I would never again recommend to an employer someone without a degree. My reason for saying that is that the schools in two instances had problems with the teachers hired - difficulty in learning the skills required, diplomacy when dealing with Chinese employees, and arrogance to name a few of the problems. Education does what it’s supposeed to do (hopefully) in that the grads coming out of university know more than those who haven’t gone through the four years; not only academically but also in handling situations. They have life skills and knowledge that haven’t necessarily been acquired by those with light qualifications. Maybe I’m making a blanket statement here and there are individuals who won’t fit into the above categories but my comments will give you an idea of one reason why employers ask for degrees. Another reason is to impress the parents who pay to send their children to the schools with the best and most qualified teachers.