Hess contracts: A or B?

Work Teaching English in Taiwan
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[quote=“naijeru”][quote=“ord2tpe2011”]
I’m going to apply for Contract A with Hess. I’m trying to get an idea of the working hours since I will be pursuing my B.A. online. I understand that mornings are off (except Wed. & Sat.), but do you have set hours (i.e. 12 p.m.-9 p.m.)? [/quote]
To answer your question, the hours with Contract A (usually weekday evenings 5-9 and Saturdays) will be insufficient for anything resembling a life unless you have another income stream.[/quote]

It depends upon what one considers a life. On Contract A, he’d be getting slightly more than 80 hours per month, which would translate into 80 x 560 x 0.8. That’s hours x hourly rate x net of tax. That’s 35,840NT/month, though there’d also be health insurance in there. I live in Taoyuan City and spend about 30,000NT/month, but that’s for a two bedroom, two bathroom place that’s fairly large and has a kitchen (and we mostly cook at home), and that’s with a wife and dog. We budget carefully and don’t exactly throw the money around, but we manage to have a fairly comfortable life. Living with other people could cut rent by another 5,000-7,000NT/month. I know someone who lives in Taipei who spends, outside of rent, 15,000NT/month. It’s doable, with perhaps an extra 10,000NT up his sleeve. If he’s into things like hiking or playing online computer games or reading books (from a library), it’s very doable. Throw in a couple of privates or some subbing now and then and it’s easy enough. He’ll never get rich or live a luxurious life, but it’s certainly possible to more than just get by, especially if his main objective is anything other than making money.

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I also had a bit of a chuckle when I read that. But good on the OP for being positive and energetic. That goes a long way in terms of buxiban ESL teaching!

It doesn’t quite work that way. If you have all the requirements necessary for an ARC in the first place, what happens when you change schools is this: The new school signs a contract with you and applies for an ARC based on your qualifications and a work permit. The old ARC and work permit(s) is canceled by the old school. So your ARC isn’t transferred at all. Your first ARC is canceled and another one (including work permits) is applied for.
As far as work permits go, you need a work permit for every school you work for, including different branches of the same company. If caught working at a branch or school without one you will be fined and deported.

Regarding online studies. This really depends on why you’re doing it. In Taiwan they’re all but useless as the Ministry of Education doesn’t recognise them. However, if you plan to use your online qualifications elsewhere that’s fine, and seeing as you’ve already decided to go that route, you’ll know that studying this way is a good way to “earn while you learn”. Nothing wrong with that at all. Also, if your idea is to stay in Taiwan long term, then an online qualification (depending on what it’s in) can be useful in other areas, especially if in a few years you’re on a different visa type, i.e JFRV (marriage) or PARC (permanent).

For example: Let’s say you study and work at Hess and apply for a PARC after five years (assuming it’s still five years in five years time) and have completed your online BA. Being here on your own accord, and not on an ARC dependent on your employer, you could seek employment anywhere in the education sector or outside of it, as long as it’s NOT in the realm of the Ministry of Education.
Private institutions may have no qualms about hiring an individual based on online studies if they needn’t apply for an ARC or work permits.

Regarding Hess: They’re very much like any other chain school in Taiwan. Most of the posters here have painted a relatively realistic picture, but it all depends on you at the end of the day. I worked for Sesame Street for many years and they were awesome for what I needed them for. I was a few days short of being out of Taiwan on my ass when I knocked on their door. When the FAP called me to “notify” me that my ARC was going to expire in two days and whether I was aware that I would need to leave the country I told them I’d call them back. I called Sesame Street’s office lady that works with these things and she told me, “Relax, I’ll give them a call.” Ten minutes later the FAP lady called me back and said, “No problem! Your new ARC is being processed, you don’t need to leave afterall!”
In all the years I worked for them there have been many negative things I could say about them, none better or worse than Hess or any other chain school IMVHO, but I never ever had visa problems with them and there were a lot of positives, too. Not a bad road to go down when you first get here, I think.
Horses for courses. They did for me what I needed, and I repaid in kind.

So, in summary, it all depends what your plans (present and future) are and what you need to get done. But it pays to be informed. For example, it doesn’t help to dream about teaching at a Taiwanese university while studying for an MA or PhD online. The Ministry of Education doesn’t recognise online degrees and that dream will eventually be shattered. However, that doesn’t mean that pursuing online studies is a fruitless exercise!
I forget who it was, but I remember one Forumosan who came to Taiwan from South Africa and did pretty much what you are planning on doing. He worked at regular chain schools whilst pursuing online studies in Economics through the University of South Africa (UNISA). After he completed his studies he got a job in New Zealand and immigrated there. He seemed very happy with the way things worked out.

So, live your life, do what your heart tells you to, but use your head to guide you.

Good luck!

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Great post, Bismark!

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Thing is, mate, all of these cram schools are franchised to individual owners. Hess might be great in one area and hell to work at in another. Same goes for Shane, Kid Castle, Giraffe, Jordan, etc.
I hear nothing but terrible things about Jordan schools. I’ve worked at one of the Sanchong branches for eight year and never had a problem (apart from the absurd curriculum).
Depends on which branch you’re at.

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[quote=“jimipresley”]Thing is, mate, all of these cram schools are franchised to individual owners. Hess might be great in one area and hell to work in in another. Same goes for Shane, Kid Castle, Giraffe, Jordan, etc.
I hear nothing but terrible things about Jordan schools. I’ve worked at one of the Sanchong branches for eight year and never had a problem (apart from the absurd curriculum).
Depends on which branch you’re at.[/quote]
Very true, also.

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[quote=“GuyInTaiwan”]
It depends upon what one considers a life. On Contract A, he’d be getting slightly more than 80 hours per month, which would translate into 80 x 560 x 0.8. That’s hours x hourly rate x net of tax. That’s 35,840NT/month, though there’d also be health insurance in there. I live in Taoyuan City and spend about 30,000NT/month, but that’s for a two bedroom, two bathroom place that’s fairly large and has a kitchen (and we mostly cook at home), and that’s with a wife and dog. We budget carefully and don’t exactly throw the money around, but we manage to have a fairly comfortable life. Living with other people could cut rent by another 5,000-7,000NT/month. I know someone who lives in Taipei who spends, outside of rent, 15,000NT/month. It’s doable, with perhaps an extra 10,000NT up his sleeve. If he’s into things like hiking or playing online computer games or reading books (from a library), it’s very doable. Throw in a couple of privates or some subbing now and then and it’s easy enough. He’ll never get rich or live a luxurious life, but it’s certainly possible to more than just get by, especially if his main objective is anything other than making money.[/quote]
Like I said, without another income stream such as the items marked in bold, Contract A is insufficient. Think of a person getting off the plane in Taiwan with just enough savings to make it to their first paycheck. As the only source of income for a newcomer to Taiwan, I think you’d agree that Contract A would be very tight, especially when one is learning the ropes and establishing himself in the country. Doable? Sure, I did it and was miserable because I was only making enough money to exist in Taiwan. I was in Taipei County though so other areas are probably more affordable. However inconsistent sources of income like privates, subs and roommates should enhance a livable income imo, not make a substandard one bearable. For someone new to Taiwan depending on those things definitely enhances stress. 80 hours a month in this market is a happy day scenario after all; come up short for hours a couple months (like the first month which is limited to about 50 hours) and things get dicey real fast. You can forget about studying the language, traveling, socializing or any of the other reasons people usually go to Taiwan without running into the brick wall of no money. Once I settled in to life in Taiwan it was very easy to live on a budget of 35k a month because major expenses like furniture and so on were out of the way, I had a nice rainy day balance in the bank and my monthly earnings were more than twice that amount. Basically, a lot of things have to go right for Contract A to be comfortable, and knowing Taiwan…

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This was not how it happened for me.

When I changed jobs in 2008, I did it in 2 steps, first adding the second school to my ARC then dropping the first school and making the second school the sponsoring school. To drop the first school, we signed a cancel contract agreement, which got sent to the dept. of labor, but the ARC remained valid.

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Naijeru: What you’re saying is certainly true for Taipei City or Taipei County, but rent is fairly cheap elsewhere. Things are generally cheaper elsewhere. Like I said, it’s doable, though not exactly ideal and it’s not what I would do. It depends upon what someone wants though. Socialisation would be a bad reason to come to Taiwan in my opinion, but then, 23 was a long time ago for me and I have different objectives now. Actually, I’d say learning Chinese (or doing some other study/cultural activity) would be the only reason one should come here other than to work (and even that’s not what it once was and I don’t know if I’d even recommend Taiwan to someone who wanted to work – in terms of career, it’s a definite step in the wrong direction and in terms of money, it’s a marginal option). If one wants to learn Chinese properly, then that person would essentially be taking on a student’s life as per anywhere else in the world, complete with the poverty associated with it. I don’t think a person could reasonably consider learning Chinese working full time for anyone here. The scheduling issues would be far too great (I even found this when working 8:30-4:30 and looking at local universities to study at in the evenings) before we even got onto the general tiredness from working 30+ teaching hours (not including unpaid hours) each week. Also of course, being in an all English speaking environment all day is hugely detrimental. I have friends here who speak virtually no Chinese at all for those reasons. In fact, I think if someone really wants to learn Chinese or experience Taiwan, they’d be better to just have a year’s worth of living expenses first and consider any work they did to be supplemental.

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This was not how it happened for me.

When I changed jobs in 2008, I did it in 2 steps, first adding the second school to my ARC then dropping the first school and making the second school the sponsoring school. To drop the first school, we signed a cancel contract agreement, which got sent to the dept. of labor, but the ARC remained valid.[/quote]

I think bismarck’s main point was that a work permit still needs to be issued and the various requirements met. My reading of the OP was that he thought he could get a work permit once (thru Hess) and then just transfer the ARC without needing a new work permit. I could be wrong though.

50

This was not how it happened for me.

When I changed jobs in 2008, I did it in 2 steps, first adding the second school to my ARC then dropping the first school and making the second school the sponsoring school. To drop the first school, we signed a cancel contract agreement, which got sent to the dept. of labor, but the ARC remained valid.[/quote]

I think bismarck’s main point was that a work permit still needs to be issued and the various requirements met. My reading of the OP was that he thought he could get a work permit once (thru Hess) and then just transfer the ARC without needing a new work permit. I could be wrong though.[/quote]
Indeed. You can’t just transfer it willy nilly.

Let’s say you get an ARC and work permit through employer A based on their guanxi etc, but wouldn’t otherwise qualify. You get a second job. Check. You try to cancel job A and only keep job B as your sponsor, but they don’t have the necessary guanxi etc. Work permit is denied, and job A cancels your ARC.

CraigTPE - In your situation you probably qualified for a work based ARC (and a work permit) based on your qualifications anyway - therefore it seems like you “transferred” it. Everyone with a BA can move from school to school in that way, but you’re not strictly “transferring” it unless you qualify for a work based ARC to begin with…

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[quote=“bismarck”]Indeed. You can’t just transfer it willy nilly.

Let’s say you get an ARC and work permit through employer A based on their guanxi etc, but wouldn’t otherwise qualify. You get a second job. Check. You try to cancel job A and only keep job B as your sponsor, but they don’t have the necessary guanxi etc. Work permit is denied, and job A cancels your ARC.

CraigTPE - In your situation you probably qualified for a work based ARC (and a work permit) based on your qualifications anyway - therefore it seems like you “transferred” it. Everyone with a BA can move from school to school in that way, but you’re not strictly “transferring” it unless you qualify for a work based ARC to begin with…[/quote]
It seems we’re talking semantics here. There is a difference between a work permit and an ARC.

The type of ARC being discussed in this thread, if I understand correctly, is one based on having a job teaching English. Securing a work permit is separate from and precedes securing an ARC. The employer applies for the work permit and the alien resident, with the work permit in hand, applies for the ARC (unless you have an employer who will go the extra mile and run the paperwork for you).

The work permit belongs to the employer. The ARC belongs to the alien resident. An ARC based on work requires a sponsoring company. That company can be changed without the ARC being canceled. The former employer cancels the work permit, not the ARC. The ARC only gets canceled by the government if the alien resident didn’t follow the appropriate procedure to have the name of the new sponsoring employer added.

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This is complicated stuff. I just want to dance!!! :smiley: :discodance: :stuck_out_tongue: Thanks for the positive info. Good to know what I’m getting into.

[quote=“CraigTPE”][quote=“bismarck”]Indeed. You can’t just transfer it willy nilly.

Let’s say you get an ARC and work permit through employer A based on their guanxi etc, but wouldn’t otherwise qualify. You get a second job. Check. You try to cancel job A and only keep job B as your sponsor, but they don’t have the necessary guanxi etc. Work permit is denied, and job A cancels your ARC.

CraigTPE - In your situation you probably qualified for a work based ARC (and a work permit) based on your qualifications anyway - therefore it seems like you “transferred” it. Everyone with a BA can move from school to school in that way, but you’re not strictly “transferring” it unless you qualify for a work based ARC to begin with…[/quote]
It seems we’re talking semantics here. There is a difference between a work permit and an ARC.

The type of ARC being discussed in this thread, if I understand correctly, is one based on having a job teaching English. Securing a work permit is separate from and precedes securing an ARC. The employer applies for the work permit and the alien resident, with the work permit in hand, applies for the ARC (unless you have an employer who will go the extra mile and run the paperwork for you).

The work permit belongs to the employer. The ARC belongs to the alien resident. An ARC based on work requires a sponsoring company. That company can be changed without the ARC being canceled. The former employer cancels the work permit, not the ARC. The ARC only gets canceled by the government if the alien resident didn’t follow the appropriate procedure to have the name of the new sponsoring employer added.[/quote]

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[quote=“CraigTPE”][quote=“bismarck”]Indeed. You can’t just transfer it willy nilly.

Let’s say you get an ARC and work permit through employer A based on their guanxi etc, but wouldn’t otherwise qualify. You get a second job. Check. You try to cancel job A and only keep job B as your sponsor, but they don’t have the necessary guanxi etc. Work permit is denied, and job A cancels your ARC.

CraigTPE - In your situation you probably qualified for a work based ARC (and a work permit) based on your qualifications anyway - therefore it seems like you “transferred” it. Everyone with a BA can move from school to school in that way, but you’re not strictly “transferring” it unless you qualify for a work based ARC to begin with…[/quote]
It seems we’re talking semantics here. There is a difference between a work permit and an ARC.

The type of ARC being discussed in this thread, if I understand correctly, is one based on having a job teaching English. Securing a work permit is separate from and precedes securing an ARC. The employer applies for the work permit and the alien resident, with the work permit in hand, applies for the ARC (unless you have an employer who will go the extra mile and run the paperwork for you).

The work permit belongs to the employer. The ARC belongs to the alien resident. An ARC based on work requires a sponsoring company. That company can be changed without the ARC being canceled. The former employer cancels the work permit, not the ARC. The ARC only gets canceled by the government if the alien resident didn’t follow the appropriate procedure to have the name of the new sponsoring employer added.[/quote]
You could be right.

However, have a look at someone’s ARC who has one based on work. At the bottom left hand corner where it says: Purpose of Residence, it will have your employer’s name and address. Your employer applies for the ARC along with a work permit for a particular branch. All other branches and/or schools need to apply for additional work permits after that.

Changing the initial Purpose of residence, i.e. employer, necessitates the application of a new ARC. A work permit allows you to work at a particular branch, the ARC doesn’t belong to you at all (unless it’s a PARC). The ARC is completely dependent on your employer and can be cancelled at his discretion. You are totally free to find another work sponsor, though, but if you think the ARC “belongs” to the ARC holder, good luck with that!
On the old paper ones it may have seemed as if the ARC “belonged” to you, and you were transferring the same ARC, because they would merely write the new information (purpose of residence and/or change of address) on the back. But in actuality, a new ARC was applied for by the new employer.

That’s the entire point of an ARC. It is totally and completely dependent on your employer, not you. So, if one employer can work his guanxi magic and get you an ARC even if you don’t normally qualify, such an ARC can’t be “transferred” to another employer unless the new employer has access to the same contacts and/or guanxi.

Work permits are applied for after ARC applications and are only relevant to where you’ll actually be working. This information isn’t on the ARC (although the Laoban’s details are listed on the ARC under Purpose of Residence), but is kept with the work permit at the department of labour.
ARCs are applied for through immigration and must be applied for first. Work permits are applied for at the department of labour after an ARC has been secured.

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My ARC is based on work. My employer applied for the work permit. I took the work permit and applied for the ARC. My employer did not apply for the ARC. Despite the fact that your place of employment appears on the ARC, they are two separate transactions.

Yes, the employer’s name and address will appear on the ARC, but the alien resident has the right to change that by following the necessary steps. The employer listed on the ARC can not prevent the alien resident from 1) adding a second employer then 2) changing the second employer to be the sponsoring employer and if so desired 3) dropping the original employer.

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My ARC is based on work. My employer applied for the work permit. I took the work permit and applied for the ARC. My employer did not apply for the ARC. Despite the fact that your place of employment appears on the ARC, they are two separate transactions.

Yes, the employer’s name and address will appear on the ARC, but the alien resident has the right to change that by following the necessary steps. The employer listed on the ARC can not prevent the alien resident from 1) adding a second employer then 2) changing the second employer to be the sponsoring employer and if so desired 3) dropping the original employer.[/quote]
True. But it’s still a different ARC on computer, even if the one in your hand is the same one physically. So, you still haven’t used/transferred the same ARC, you’ve changed you purpose of residence, i.e. your work based ARC…

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:saywhat:

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Regardless of whether it’s the same or different in terms of ARC, the OP will have a hard time getting a work permit with an AA + TEFL or with an online degree. Hess may be the only choice.

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[quote=“naijeru”][quote=“ord2tpe2011”]
I’m going to apply for Contract A with Hess. I’m trying to get an idea of the working hours since I will be pursuing my B.A. online. I understand that mornings are off (except Wed. & Sat.), but do you have set hours (i.e. 12 p.m.-9 p.m.)? [/quote]
To answer your question, the hours with Contract A (usually weekday evenings 5-9 and Saturdays) will be insufficient for anything resembling a life unless you have another income stream.[/quote]

I know that you have a larger reply before but working the nasty kindy (9:30-11:30?) and after-school (5-9 or so) split shift (plus travel/prep/grading time) will leave you with little time for anything resembling a life also. 20 hours is more than enough me to live off of and I don’t have a roommate or these 2nd income streams.

And if you wanted to pick up more hours every once in awhile I frequently see kindy subbing jobs available. but I didn’t come here to make money and I didn’t come here to work a lot of hours. If I wanted that I would have stayed in the US and found a job that payed far more than contract B.

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Bis - you’re assuming that an AA plus TEFL qualification aren’t enough, but it appears that now a 2 year qualification is, in theory, accepted for an ARC. My point was that probably only a big school like HESS would carry the clout to push this through with the authorities. However, once someone has an ARC and wants to move school then surely a precedent has been set? The smaller school could say, “well, you let him work at HESS and the rules state that he is suitably qualified so why are you refusing him here?” I’m not guaranteeing that he’ll be able to transfer schools, but it certainly seems possible assuming the smaller school is happy to employ someone with less than a bachelor’s.

The OP may well like working at HESS. I have a few friends who stayed there quite a long time. The main advantage with HESS is they’re big enough to have a promotion structure.

I’m surprised the Apple Daily hasn’t caught up with this yet. Shock horror! Now the sex-crazed, pot smoking, hairy, big noses don’t even have full degrees!

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An AA + TESOL has been acceptable for a LONG time. It isn’t any more difficult to get an ARC with an AA + TESOL than with a BA.