# Hey Atheists (or agnostics)- What do you believe in? **URL:** \ **Category:** Religion & Spirituality\ **Created:** [July 12, 2007, 5:00pm UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/hey-atheists-or-agnostics-what-do-you-believe-in/39163 "2007-07-12T17:00:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![SuchAFob](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@SuchAFob](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/SuchAFob)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2007, 5:00pm UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/hey-atheists-or-agnostics-what-do-you-believe-in/39163/1 "2007-07-12T17:00:42Z")
So someone today asked me what I believe in. And wow. Nothing. I think most of what we believe today scientifically will be silly in 1000 years. I don’t think math will change much but that’s not much of a religion (and I suck at it). Love is too fluid and changing. I’m too Descartian to even say I believe in myself. I certainly don’t believe in humanity. So. Other Atheists. What? What do you believe in? ---
**Author:** ![Chris](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/c/958977/32.png) [@Chris](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/Chris)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2007, 5:03pm UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/hey-atheists-or-agnostics-what-do-you-believe-in/39163/2 "2007-07-12T17:03:41Z")
I believe I’ll have another beer. ---
**Author:** ![Jaboney](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/jaboney/32/46120_2.png) [@Jaboney](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/Jaboney)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2007, 5:11pm UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/hey-atheists-or-agnostics-what-do-you-believe-in/39163/3 "2007-07-12T17:11:31Z")
I forget the exact quote: “One age’s religion is the next’s literature.” Something similar probably works in the forward direction. ---
**Author:** ![Enigma](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/e/8c91f0/32.png) [@Enigma](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/Enigma)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2007, 5:49pm UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/hey-atheists-or-agnostics-what-do-you-believe-in/39163/4 "2007-07-12T17:49:46Z")
Beyond that next beer, I believe in the youth of the world, (absolutely given up on the 60’s generation to make the changes they promised) in building a snowman with someone you love, and baseball. I believe in old men and women, especially those that don’t speak loudly. I believe in old dogs for they are 100% loyal and NEVER betray you. I believe that saying nothing is better than saying much. (I believe - but don’t practice this) I believe that the world is changing for the better but like all difficult journeys, there are setbacks along the way. I believe that THE PEOPLE will prevail over curruption, arrogance and dictation. I believe that our God, (you draw the picture) will make certain that His people will prosper on the earth through whatever adversity the less than dedicated try to develop among us. I believe that it’s time to go to bed. ---
**Author:** ![NeonNoodle](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/neonnoodle/32/740_2.png) [@NeonNoodle](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/NeonNoodle)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2007, 5:51pm UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/hey-atheists-or-agnostics-what-do-you-believe-in/39163/5 "2007-07-12T17:51:17Z")
> [@SuchAFob](#): > > So someone today asked me what I believe in. And wow. Nothing. > I think most of what we believe today scientifically will be silly in 1000 years. I don’t think math will change much but that’s not much of a religion (and I suck at it). On what basis do you make that claim? While it’s not as sexy as many of the sciences and is hardly covered in the popular press, it is one of the most productive human disciplines. Whether the discovery of new math drives science or whether the discoveries are driven by science or both, math has grown more since the start of the 20th Century than in all previous centuries. In fact, much of our modern way of life wouldn’t be possible without all the math that has been discovered in the past one hundred years. There is no meaning in the universe aside from the meaning one gives it. ---
**Author:** ![elektronisk](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/e/ea5d25/32.png) [@elektronisk](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/elektronisk)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2007, 5:56pm UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/hey-atheists-or-agnostics-what-do-you-believe-in/39163/6 "2007-07-12T17:56:47Z")
> [@Enigma](#): > > Beyond that next beer, I believe in the youth of the world, (absolutely given up on the 60’s generation to make the changes they promised) in building a snowman with someone you love, and baseball. I believe in old men and women, especially those that don’t speak loudly. I believe in old dogs for they are 100% loyal and NEVER betray you. I believe that saying nothing is better than saying much. (I believe - but don’t practice this) I believe that the world is changing for the better but like all difficult journeys, there are setbacks along the way. I believe that THE PEOPLE will prevail over curruption, arrogance and dictation. I believe that our God, (you draw the picture) will make certain that His people will prosper on the earth through whatever adversity the less than dedicated try to develop among us. I believe that it’s time to go to bed. And I believe there (up above) is a classic post. ---
**Author:** ![Gao\_Bohan](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/g/82dd89/32.png) [@Gao\_Bohan](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/Gao_Bohan)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2007, 5:57pm UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/hey-atheists-or-agnostics-what-do-you-believe-in/39163/7 "2007-07-12T17:57:39Z")
> [@SuchAFob](#): > > So someone today asked me what I believe in. And wow. Nothing. > I think most of what we believe today scientifically will be silly in 1000 years. I don’t think math will change much but that’s not much of a religion (and I suck at it). Love is too fluid and changing. I’m too Descartian to even say I believe in myself. > I certainly don’t believe in humanity. > So. Other Atheists. What? What do you believe in? First off, I disagree that most of our scientific knowledge will be considered “silly” in 1000 years. Probably much our technology will be considered obsolete, just as we consider external combustion engines to be impractical for vehicles, compared to those that use internal combustion. But our scientific understanding of external combustion has not really changed in the last 100 years, nor is it likely to in the next 1000 years. We will develop more efficient technology, surely, but the underlying scientific principles of past and modern technology will remain the same. The question “what do you believe in” typically refers to origins. Assuming that is what you’re asking, then I’ll just say that I accept the modern scientific explanation for the origin of the universe and the origin of life. I reject any and all supernatural explanations, as I do not believe supernatural explanations to be based in observation or reason. I do not believe that embracing the scientific explanation of origins makes life meaningless, but I do not believe that life has any objective meaning or purpose. I believe that our lives can have a great deal of meaning, but that meaning is a subjective part of the human experience. On a personal level, what makes my life worth living is the love and companionship of my wife, the excitement of traveling to new places, the intellectual satisfaction I receive from learning, the sense of fulfillment my writing brings me, and the hope that my writing will bring others joy. ---
**Author:** ![bobepine](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/b/d07c76/32.png) [@bobepine](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/bobepine)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2007, 6:22pm UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/hey-atheists-or-agnostics-what-do-you-believe-in/39163/8 "2007-07-12T18:22:58Z")
I don’t have much to add at this point; it’s too late and I’m crashing in 5. More later if I get around to it… Two things… 1-Excellent topic. 2-And a tip of the hat to this:[quote]I believe that our lives can have a great deal of meaning, but that meaning is a subjective part of the human experience. [/quote] Not a surprise coming from gao\_bo\_han. The great thing about the above statement is that it makes sense regardless if you believe in the feasibility of supernatural elements, or if your beliefs are more science based. ---
**Author:** ![Screaming\_Jesus](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/s/f08c70/32.png) [@Screaming\_Jesus](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/Screaming_Jesus)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2007, 9:40pm UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/hey-atheists-or-agnostics-what-do-you-believe-in/39163/9 "2007-07-12T21:40:34Z")
I wonder who you mean to include under the category of “atheism”? In my case, I tend to agree with the various criticisms of religion (particularly like the new “socio-biological” discussion), or at least assume that they are basically right. On the other hand, I entertain a lot of weird ideas about consciousness, “supernatural”-looking coincidences, and other woo-woo psychic stuff. The word “God” is hard to assign a definite meaning to, when used by others (which you’d need to do in order to say it didn’t exist), but I sometimes think of the universe as reflexive–i.e. capable of interacting with us in ways which are often attributed to God by theists. I’m not wedded to the idea, though, and only half-believe in it irregularly. And how about my wife? She says she’s irreligious, but believes in ghosts and stuff, and I’ve caught her bowing before the family altar. ---
**Author:** ![Tigerman](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/t/ee59a6/32.png) [@Tigerman](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/Tigerman)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2007, 11:21pm UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/hey-atheists-or-agnostics-what-do-you-believe-in/39163/10 "2007-07-12T23:21:25Z")
> [@gao\_bo\_han](#): > > …I do not believe that life has any objective meaning or purpose. I believe that our lives can have a great deal of meaning, but that meaning is a subjective part of the human experience. Yes. I think that’s just about where I am in my thinking. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_PBH](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/mr_pbh/32/230938_2.png) [@Mr\_PBH](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/Mr_PBH)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2007, 12:08am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/hey-atheists-or-agnostics-what-do-you-believe-in/39163/11 "2007-07-13T00:08:41Z")
Freedom. ---
**Author:** ![lurkky](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/l/71e660/32.png) [@lurkky](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/lurkky)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2007, 1:58am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/hey-atheists-or-agnostics-what-do-you-believe-in/39163/12 "2007-07-13T01:58:10Z")
Yang Chu summed up my beliefs quite aptly: > [@](#): > > "The memory of things of highest antiquity is faded. Who recollects them? Of the time of the three generations of Emperors something is preserved, but the rest is lost. Of the five rulers something is still known, the rest is only guessed at. Of the events during the time of the three emperors some are veiled in deep obscurity, and some are clear, yet out of a hundred thousand not one is recollected. Of the things of our present life some are heard, others seen, yet not one out of ten thousand is recollected. It is impossible to calculate the number of years elapsed from remote antiquity to the present day. Only from Fu-hsi downwards there are more than three hundred thousand years. > "Every trace of intelligent and stupid men, of the beautiful and ugly, successful and unsuccesful, right and wrong, is effaced. And whether quickly or slowly is the only point of difference. > “If anybody cares for one hour’s blame or praise so much that, by torturing his spirit and body, he struggles for a name lasting some hundred years after his death, can the halo of glory revive his dried bones, or give it back the joy of living?” ---
**Author:** ![Taffy](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/taffy/32/186_2.png) [@Taffy](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/Taffy)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2007, 2:10am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/hey-atheists-or-agnostics-what-do-you-believe-in/39163/13 "2007-07-13T02:10:39Z")
I would write my thoughts on what I believe here, but reading gao\_bo\_han’s post had me agreeing to every line, so I’d simply be echoing what he said. Elaborating on what he wrote about science - I think that Newtonian physics and Darwinian evolution, to take two examples, do a superb job of explaining the world around us. Of course, when you get into the realms of the very small or the very large, Newtonian physics stops working, but that doesn’t alter the fact that, as a working model for the interaction of physical phenomena at above-quantum and below astral magnitudes, it’ll still be with us in 1,000 years time. As for evolution, it’s pretty hard to imagine how something could come along to make us think our conception of heredity and descent was misguided and quaint. This is not a nebulous concept like the aether, or phlostigon; a mere placeholder for processes we don’t understand. It’s defined and proven - not to say that every part of the theory is fully understood, but the essential mechanics are. Of course, there are still some areas of debate (such as whether evolution moves in fits and starts, like a novice driver, or in a smooth flow, like a calm river) - and future advances can be expected to refine points like this around the edges of the theory. But the central core will still be easily recognisable to people 1,000 years from now. ---
**Author:** ![lurkky](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/l/71e660/32.png) [@lurkky](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/lurkky)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2007, 2:21am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/hey-atheists-or-agnostics-what-do-you-believe-in/39163/14 "2007-07-13T02:21:19Z")
I’m with Taffy in paragraphs 2 and 3. Plus, one thing I almost completely believe in is the chance that the Singularity will hit in our lifetime. (ok, my lifetime.) > [@](#): > > The Technological Singularity is the hypothesized creation, usually via AI or brain-computer interfaces, of smarter-than-human entities who rapidly accelerate technological progress beyond the capability of human beings to participate meaningfully in said progress. Futurists have varying opinions regarding the time, consequences, and plausibility of such an event. Ray Kurzweil’s charts make sense to me, for the most part. ![](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c5/PPTMooresLawai.jpg) What’s interesting is that McLuhan even saw a technological singularity in Christian terms, as a realization of all human beings joining one Body of Christ. But then, he was a catholic… 2025 is the year: ![](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/ba/PPTSuperComputersPRINT.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Dragonbones](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/dragonbones/32/1125_2.png) [@Dragonbones](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/Dragonbones)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2007, 5:56am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/hey-atheists-or-agnostics-what-do-you-believe-in/39163/15 "2007-07-13T05:56:57Z")
I believe in the pursuit of quality in everything one does and in the person one tries to become. ---
**Author:** ![Elegua](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/e/65b543/32.png) [@Elegua](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/Elegua)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2007, 6:19am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/hey-atheists-or-agnostics-what-do-you-believe-in/39163/16 "2007-07-13T06:19:51Z")
I believe in powers of 10 ---
**Author:** ![Chaon](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/c/94ad74/32.png) [@Chaon](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/Chaon)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2007, 6:31am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/hey-atheists-or-agnostics-what-do-you-believe-in/39163/17 "2007-07-13T06:31:06Z")
I believe that the sum of the internal angles of a Euclidean triangle equals one hundred and eighty degrees. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_PBH](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/mr_pbh/32/230938_2.png) [@Mr\_PBH](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/Mr_PBH)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2007, 7:04am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/hey-atheists-or-agnostics-what-do-you-believe-in/39163/18 "2007-07-13T07:04:03Z")
> [@Chaon](#): > > I believe that the sum of the internal angles of a Euclidean triangle equals one hundred and eighty degrees. Prove it. ---
**Author:** ![Chaon](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/c/94ad74/32.png) [@Chaon](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/Chaon)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2007, 7:08am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/hey-atheists-or-agnostics-what-do-you-believe-in/39163/19 "2007-07-13T07:08:35Z")
> [@mr\_pbh](#): > > Prove it. I already have. You have too. It is certainly a much easier task than defining “freedom”. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_PBH](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/mr_pbh/32/230938_2.png) [@Mr\_PBH](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/Mr_PBH)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2007, 7:16am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/hey-atheists-or-agnostics-what-do-you-believe-in/39163/20 "2007-07-13T07:16:59Z")
> [@Chaon](#): > > > [@mr\_pbh](#): > > > > Prove it. > > I already have. You have too. It is certainly a much easier task than defining “freedom”. I prove that nearly every day. [Next page](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/hey-atheists-or-agnostics-what-do-you-believe-in/39163.md?page=2)