Hiring by Race - Whites, Blacks need not apply

[quote]Posted: 07 Mar 2005 00:32 Post subject: WANTED PART TIME ABC-CBC (CH-EN / EN-CH) TRANSLATOR Reply with quote
WANTED ABC/CBC (CH-EN / EN-CH) TRANSLATOR AND PROOFER FOR BILIGUAL MAGAZINES. PART TIME, PERMANENT JOB IN Taipei.
GOOD WRITING SKILLS IN BOTH LANGUAGES A MUST.

PLEASE CONTACT GODFREY@ETTIS.COM[/quote]

What is this? White / Black people not welcome? Do we allow adverts which discriminate on the basis of race? Mods?

Just my two cents, but I think the person stated CBC/ABC because he is looking for a fluently bilingual person for translating both ways-from Chinese to English and from English to Chinese. Now, he’s probably technically wrong for asking for a Chinese person, but I think he did so more in asking for someone with a certain set of skills as opposed to suggesting whites/blacks need not apply. There likely are non-Chinese out there with the sort of skills needed, but can we agree that their numbers would be much, much smaller (think of the number of Chinese immigrants in our countries vs the number of westerners here. then consider that we are not often expected to learn the written form of the language) ? Another possibility is the person may be seeking someone with ROC citizenship.

I’d bet if a qualified non-Chinese were to apply, he’d be able to get the job.

I doubt they can find many people really qualified to translate both ways and proofread in both languages even amont ABC/CBC/BBCs etc.

I know white people who speak better Chinese than some ABCs. I also know ABC who don’t speak English as well as, for instance, the Russian bloke I met recently.

I also know a girl who has Taiwan citizenship and appears to be totally fluent in both languages. Does it matter what race she is?

This is kind of interesting.

I don’t like the ad’s specification on race/ethnic background either. And Juba is right, the employer is vry unlikely to find what he is looking for. I have never met anyone in Taiwan who is bilingual and biliterate to the degree that they can translate and edit both ways.

But if the employer is not going to hire anyone who is not ethnically Chinese, should he waste people’s time by not telling them that? Or should he have to use a coded way of saying it?

Yeah, but that’s a slippery slope. What’s next - discriminating against people whose last name ends with “stein” or “berg”? I doubt the advertisers are being maliciously racist, but I don’t think we need to tolerate their ignorance, either.

Has anyone actually told this guy that he’s being racist? Sometimes just explaining your perspective can make a difference. (It may not do, but I think it’s the right first step.)

And then can someone talk to Mr James Dean Was Here, and ask him why he’s blatantly discriminating against males?

Remember, this iste is hosted in the USA and is probably subject to US laws with regard to content.

[quote=“Loretta”]I know white people who speak better Chinese than some ABCs. I also know ABC who don’t speak English as well as, for instance, the Russian bloke I met recently.

I also know a girl who has Taiwan citizenship and appears to be totally fluent in both languages. Does it matter what race she is?[/quote]

I also know ABC’S who speak better English than alot of English speaking whites. That some whites speak Chinese was not the point. That’s obvious, isn’t it? I think the person who posted the position played the race card in search of someone with specific skills, not necessarily out of superiority beliefs. I made a point about there being more bilingual ABCs than whites. Care to disagree and show proof? If I were suitably qualified, I’d apply for the job. I’d be very surprised if I were turned down for it because I’m a whitey.

I agree most with Maoman’s sentiment. I don’t think this is malicious racism–or even true racism at all. The guy made a mistake out of innocent ignorance. Perhaps someone can politely let him know or edit his ad for him.

That may be true in the US, Canada, the UK, Australia, etc… but it isn’t necessarily true here in Taiwan.

Do you have proof to support your assertation?

Over the years my firm has hosted quite a few young ABC attorneys and none of these were very proficient in Chinese at all… they certainly didn’t possess the proficiency that I possess.

If they want someone bilingual, then they should say that. If they only want ABCs then it’s obviously disriminatory. That seems very simple to me.

And as Loretta said, James Dean’s ad looking for a female teacher is also obviously discriminatory.

Brian

That may be true in the US, Canada, the UK, Australia, etc… but it isn’t necessarily true here in Taiwan.

Do you have proof to support your assertation?

Over the years my firm has hosted quite a few young ABC attorneys and none of these were very proficient in Chinese at all… they certainly didn’t possess the proficiency that I possess.[/quote]

The proof is all around you. You may be proficient in Chinese. Good on you for that. But you are a minority among foreigners here.

Perhaps it is just a difference in experiences, but I have found that most foreigners are not very good at Chinese at all. That is the perception of locals, as well.
It has also been my experience (and perhaps I am biased because the gf is an FBC) that FBCs are better at Chinese than the AVERAGE foreigner.

I honestly think the guy just doesn’t realize that some foreigners are quite good at the kind of work he wants done. Maybe he’s never met any that could before. I think crying racism and discrimination here is premature. Why don’t some of you who can do the work send the guy a resume and see what he says?

I believe this is just a case of a guy’s innocent ignorance. It’s going way too far to call it racism at this point. Send him a resume. If he says,“no whiteys,” then we know he’s a racist. If not, simply send him a message informing him that he’s made a mistake and politely ask him to edit his post.

Change the words from ‘If I were suitably qualified…’ to "Because I am more than suitably qualified…’ and ‘whitey’ to ‘black’ and you’d understand the frustration I felt during my 6-month search for a teaching job in Taiwan. I’m in favor of stamping out ads like this. Let people here know that most of us foreigners don’t appreciate racism, even if it’s based on ‘innocuous’ ideas of who would be best for performing the said job.

I’m not in the slightest bit interested in the intention of the poster. The ad explicitly states a person of a particular race only (and place of birth, bizarrely) is acceptable.

Discrimination born of innocent ignorance is still discrimination. James Dean can shove his job ad up his arse.

James Dean is a Canadian, btw. No excuses there.

And I put forth the notion that it is his right to clearly state the employee requirements he wishes to hire for his business.

If one does not meet those stated requirements they have the option of not applying for the position. This will save them from wasting their time and his.

[quote=“TainanCowboy”]And I put forth the notion that it is his right to clearly state the employee requirements he wishes to hire for his business.

If one does not meet those stated requirements they have the option of not applying for the position. This will save them from wasting their time and his.[/quote]

I wouldn’t go so far as to state that. I’m simply suggesting that the advertiser assumed (ignorantly) that FBCs are fluently bilingual. Not always the case, of course. I think the guy is looking for people who posses a certain skills set and is perhaps unaware of what people possess them.

I appreciate Imaniou’s perspective on English teaching. My gf is a non-white person and she found it harder to find work than I did. There is a definite, systemic racism in play in the English teaching field here. However, this job isn’t for English teaching. There is no proof this guy would not hire someone who wasn’t Chinese.

I think this guy is probably a local who simply isn’t versed on western mores concerning inclusion and discrimination; English is likely not his first language, either. Therefore, I suggest a little understanding and a gentle approach to dealing with this sort of thing.

I advocate dealing with real and verifiable cases of discrimination and racism in a strong way. However, I advocate dealing with minor mistakes and faux pas in a gentle, constructive manner. The guy made a mistake in the wording of want ad. So, I advocate sending him a polite message informing him of his error and asking him to edit it or to post using less exclusive language in future. One of the mods could even edit it for him. I just wonder how those crying “blatantly discriminatory” would advocate dealing with this. Would their methods be constructive or counterproductive?

So you’d support a job ad looking for a non-Jewish person’. Or ‘must be white’?

Brian

In a speech to mark International Women’s Day (March 8) Chen vowed to stamp out gender discrimination in Taiwan. Maybe you should write to the Presidential Office and complain about James Dean.

T.S. & Brian -
I worded my post as clearly as I am able to do.

That is my personal belief. An employer has an obligation to their business to hire the person that they believe is best for their business.
To do otherwise is detrimental to their business model.