Honduras Migrants on their way


#141

Well, actually in that sense Central America´s earlier development worked against it. You have crippling debt. You have a fixed stratified society. Think more Saudi Arabia and other countrie son tahta side of teh world. Our countries were also broken up and reassembled to fit someone else´s interests. Most importantly, capital acquisition and building plus technology availability. It si not a matter of blame, it si a matter of being constantly run down. Singapore has enjoyed relative conflict free existence since 48. We cannot say the same under most circunstances.

An example of the conditions, as I say again, is the trade treaties in the 90s. That has caused economica nd social unrest, followed by teh despair of teh natural disasters. Hence, refugees.


#142

You might be onto something here. I read something recently about the Philippines suggesting almost exactly the same thing: development ‘sponsored’ by the Americans not only came at a cost (invisible at the time), but more importantly, the locals neither understood what they’d got or valued it for what it was. International “aid”, in whatever form, usually has more terrible consequences than people imagine.

As I’ve said before, I think there’s a place for international assistance if it is requested and properly structured - for example, I think most failed states could benefit from having customs, tax, and judiciary temporarily run by the Swiss or the Germans, but that shouldn’t come for free. It should be paid for, at market rates, by the host country, in recognition of the value being delivered.

The only real solution is to let people figure it out by themselves. People only value things that they suffer for and earn by themselves. The problem is that you can’t force people to do that. They have to want to.


#143

so… I’ll be the devil’s advocate or open up a hornets nest…how screwed up were Spain’s cultural and/or ruling influences on all these countries - Phils, Mexico, central and South American countries?


#144

Actually, you can trace teh debt back to the British, when every pound lent had to be given back 20 fold… and most of the loans were lost in intermediaries. So there has not been an accumulation of capital. As colonies, we are still sending over 70% of our income to pay debts/deals whatever. we have to manage a country with less than 30%, paying leaders developed world salaries “or they will cheat”.

Nowadays the greates and most pressing issue is bleeding resources either by constant natural disasters or corruption… or both.

Last US intervention was after the last president in Honduras was feted with a coup d´etat. That was what less than 5 years ago. That sparked the exodus we see now. And you can say that the reforms a la Allende would have destroyed teh country… however, the situation we have now is worse. One of the most pressing reforms Zelaya pushed had to do with the banana companies, labor rights for its workers. Hence, logically, he was shown the door.


#145

Mostly the cultural burden of teh segundon: come and take over what you have not worked for. While in more Protestant countries you have teh idea of I work hard and that is why I am rich, in old Spanish colonies it is mostly based on pedigree -ancestry-, color of your skin, and social class is determined by wealth, no questions asked about where that wealth came from.

The elites have interbred so much that the results leave a lot to be desired. They do not have business acumen or desire, as they can just get themselves electted and control means of production and most importantly, trade. they decide over life, death and all matters under that. Interestingly, their offspring with the help has degerated into maras and other mafia affiliated groups. So you ahve control both by law and force, plus a la Spain, religion.

In the 80s we had some reforms regarding women´s rights. These came crashing down with the explosion of power from the Evangelicals, which coincided with the loss of power from the Catholic church due to scandals and political interference. The Evangelicals sponsor parties and changed laws so that there is an excess population we just cannot feed nor take care of. So they end up in jail or on their way North. Now ask me where the funding comes from to these Evangelical groups.


#146

Are these people lead to believe they will be able to come in?

Of course the state of Texas will have to spend tax payer money to up boarder patrol, places to put them (while being called concentration camps) while they go through the process of deportation with judges and magistrates.


#147

At least fly the American flag. When people come flying another country’s flag uninvited, that’s called an invasion.


#148

I think that’s kind of the point, which makes me suspect that the caravan may be funded by some Republican super PAC.


#149

No it’s not lol.


#150

What’s a better term for A horde of people coming flyig a foreign flag trying to force their way into another people’s territory?


#151

A diplomatic mission? :grin:


#152

I think the idea is simply to overwhelm the system. If they all line up at a port of entry, that’s what will happen and chaos will ensue. It will most likely register a big meh from most folks.


#153

Be interesting to see the reaction if these people were fleeing Russia, waving Russian flags :thinking:Led by Putin .


#154

The ol country.


#155

After watching them and thinking about the logistics of cost. It’s about to cost a shit load to deport them and a lot of man power. I feel very little sympathy for these people. They’re like waiving at the crowd cheering flying their flags and celebrating marching towards victory. At least 50% if not more are able bodied young men.

Close the boarder.


#156

Come on! What is the only developed nation in Latin America? Chile. Why? Pinochet and the reforms by his Uni of Chicago boys.

I am liking this Brazilian dude. https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/oct/21/jair-bolsonaro-near-brazil-election-win-president/

So refreshing that a Latin American candidate admires the US and Israel instead of Nicaragua, Venezuela, Bolivia, etc.


#157

There is a lot of spin in the press, so be wary of what you read, there was something about people in the caravan burning the American flag which was shown to be from another time and another place. Still I get your point.

Pence was on TV saying he talked to the Honduras President and the caravan was being organised by left leaning groups and financed by Venezuela. If you believe Pence, and then if you believe the Honduras President and then to figure out where Venezuela is getting the money you need to come up with China or Russia since they are skint. By which time we are well into conspiracy theory territory.

One can be sympathetic while at the same time not thinking this is the right way to enter a country. One can be sympathetic to the fact there is no other way for them to safely make the journey and lastly you might think this is the wrong way to enter a country and yet still believe everyone in the caravan should be treated humanely and people who really do quality for asylum should be taken care of.


#158

People only believe people who they agree with now. Debate is long dead.

At the end of the day it is, as you say, the wrong way to enter a country. Regardless of the Dems, Soros, Jews, aliens etc.


#159

Still laughing at somebody waving a flag means it’s an invasion…


#160