Some Taiwanese friends are getting married later this month and I’m wondering about all the protocol.
If you’re invited to the wedding banquet or whatever you’re supposed to offer a hongbao (filled red envelope) right? This much I understand, it’s just what to fill it with I’m a little confused about. They’re not close friends but did help when I arrived as a clueless waiguoren (foreigner) in Taichung. Okay so I’m still a clueless waiguoren but I’m, slightly, less clueless now. I’ve seen various figures chucked around but have no idea what. Units of 4 or 8 may have meaning if the couple are superstitious, which my friends aren’t.
I was told that at the wedding lunch it’s protocol for the oldest person at the table to eat first, I presume that means serve, then things proceed clockwise. Don’t take more than 1 of something, and never take the last one - leave it for the old guy (hope he’s hungry!!! )
Oh dress code - I’ve track pants and t-shirts. I imagine I could rent a tux if needed somewhere, maybe, but people are saying casual is fine. Okay I’ve heard Taiwanese weddings are very casual affairs but it’s a bit hard to get my head around it.
May come up with more questions down the track but for now I’m still trying to get details.
I’ve seen people wear everything to a wedding, from a tracksuit to sophisticated branded clothes, casual is fine, polo (collared) shirt or shirt, jacket perhaps and some nice jeans or (cotton) slacks. Shoes is up to you, I’ve seen sneakers and leather shoes. As for the hong bao … red (hong) and even amount, 800, 1600, 1200, 2200 but never uneven … 700, 1100, 1500 no go … that’s for funerals. They keep account and write down your name and amount given.
At the table just be polite, they probably let you go first at the food as you are the exotic species … waiguoren. Be prepared to down your chopsticks at any time as they want to campei you with drinks … the couple will come around a few times to do the same … so be prepared to swallow your food whole.
[quote=“Bibliophile”]
I was told that at the wedding lunch it’s protocol for the oldest person at the table to eat first, I presume that means serve, then things proceed clockwise. Don’t take more than 1 of something, and never take the last one - leave it for the old guy (hope he’s hungry!!! )[/quote]
Don’t think too much. If you are considerate enough to concern yourself about the rules of politeness, you probably have already learned to respect your elders and not dig in and grab six bangers when there are only 8 sausages for a table of 5 people. As long as you don’t stick your chopsticks up your nose, scratch you head with them, or stick them upright into your bowl of rice, which is what everyone expects outside country barbarians to do, you’ll probably be praised no end.
Taiwan wedding banquets are generally more casual than western weddings, however, you should consider the venue. If the banquet is under a tarpaulin in an alley in Sanchong, or outside the brides house in Backwater Village, Boondockville, you can rock up in your blue slippers, tracky-dacks and spit your betel nut juice on the ground. However, if the banquet is at a high class restaurant or hotel, you should dress accordingly. Renting a tux would definitely be overkill. Don’t out-dress the bride or groom.
This. I wore a suit to the first wedding I attended in Taiwan, and I was better dressed than anyone except the groom. Everyone thought I was somehow involved in the proceedings. (This was in Tainan mind you - if the banquet is in a nice hotel in Taipei, a suit would be slightly but not excessively formal, and may be your only chance to air the thing out for a year or so.)
Don’t go starving. Wedding banquet food isn’t usually Taiwanese food at its best.
My wife suggests 2000 would be good but a touch generous (more than necessary, but face all around); if they’re good friends, 2600. But if two people attend the banquet, perhaps 3200 for the two of you.
It’ll finish fast - expect everyone to rush out the door by 9pm or so. Your first wedding is I suppose fun, but they get quite tedious - dull food, tables full of strangers.
Many times I’ve read that the hongbao money is tallied up and written down at the door “so you know how much to give back to that person when they are invited to your wedding.”
My question is, what if you’re not planning to get married? Or, what if you’re gay and can’t legally get married? Or, whatever? In these situations would it be more socially acceptable to decline invitations from people you’re not really close to, since the hongbaos wouldn’t be reciprocated?
[quote=“Steve4nLanguage”]Many times I’ve read that the hongbao money is tallied up and written down at the door “so you know how much to give back to that person when they are invited to your wedding.”
My question is, what if you’re not planning to get married? Or, what if you’re gay and can’t legally get married? Or, whatever? In these situations would it be more socially acceptable to decline invitations from people you’re not really close to, since the hongbaos wouldn’t be reciprocated?
Just curious.[/quote]
The reciprocal aspect is incidental. The main purpose of the hongbao is simply a wedding gift (but more practical because it is cash) and it is usually used to help your friends or relatives who are getting married to cover the costs of the wedding party. Would you avoid going to a wedding of friends or family in the West because you don’t plan on getting married and were afraid your gift wouldn’t be reciprocated? There’s your answer (whichever it may be in your own case).
[quote=“Rotalsnart”][quote=“Steve4nLanguage”]Many times I’ve read that the hongbao money is tallied up and written down at the door “so you know how much to give back to that person when they are invited to your wedding.”
My question is, what if you’re not planning to get married? Or, what if you’re gay and can’t legally get married? Or, whatever? In these situations would it be more socially acceptable to decline invitations from people you’re not really close to, since the hongbaos wouldn’t be reciprocated?
Just curious.[/quote]
The reciprocal aspect is incidental. The main purpose of the hongbao is simply a wedding gift (but more practical because it is cash) and it is usually used to help your friends or relatives who are getting married to cover the costs of the wedding party. Would you avoid going to a wedding of friends or family in the West because you don’t plan on getting married and were afraid your gift wouldn’t be reciprocated? There’s your answer (whichever it may be in your own case).[/quote]
I wouldn’t avoid going to a wedding for friends or family. In my post, however, I was wondering about declining invitations from people you’re not really close to (workmates, friends of friends, etc.).
I’ve had a good number of my Taiwanese students tell me (confide in me?) about the number of wedding invitations they receive from people on the fringes of their social circle, and they resent it. Even if not attending the dinner, they all begrudgingly send off a hongbao, mei banfa style. Some of them even hint at the notion that the couple are being greedy, but I’ve never heard of one refusal to send the hongbao.
I’ll have to pry deeper the next time the subject comes up in class.
[quote=“Steve4nLanguage”][quote=“Rotalsnart”][quote=“Steve4nLanguage”]Many times I’ve read that the hongbao money is tallied up and written down at the door “so you know how much to give back to that person when they are invited to your wedding.”
My question is, what if you’re not planning to get married? Or, what if you’re gay and can’t legally get married? Or, whatever? In these situations would it be more socially acceptable to decline invitations from people you’re not really close to, since the hongbaos wouldn’t be reciprocated?
Just curious.[/quote]
The reciprocal aspect is incidental. The main purpose of the hongbao is simply a wedding gift (but more practical because it is cash) and it is usually used to help your friends or relatives who are getting married to cover the costs of the wedding party. Would you avoid going to a wedding of friends or family in the West because you don’t plan on getting married and were afraid your gift wouldn’t be reciprocated? There’s your answer (whichever it may be in your own case).[/quote]
I wouldn’t avoid going to a wedding for friends or family. In my post, however, I was wondering about declining invitations from people you’re not really close to (workmates, friends of friends, etc.).
I’ve had a good number of my Taiwanese students tell me (confide in me?) about the number of wedding invitations they receive from people on the fringes of their social circle, and they resent it. Even if not attending the dinner, they all begrudgingly send off a hongbao, mei banfa style. Some of them even hint at the notion that the couple are being greedy, but I’ve never heard of one refusal to send the hongbao.
I’ll have to pry deeper the next time the subject comes up in class.[/quote]
For some it’s a way of making some extra money … not joking! They send invitations to everyone and all they think have some money to burn.
There are actually set amounts for hongbao for those in the know culturally and yada yada yada.
Off the top of my head they are:
800, 1200, 3600, 6600, 8800, 12…600?, and then God knows. It just gets bigger and bigger.
SO knows these better than me, I’ll ask him later and edit if I remember.
If you don’t know the people very well or are poor (student) the first two are fine as long as you’re not that close (800 if you’re going as a single, 1200 if there’s two of you). 3600 is for high school friends, colleagues etc. who aren’t particularly close. Once you get into close friends you can’t get away with less that the 12000 amount - I’ve got about 6 or 7 friends who, regardless of how well off I am when they get married, I need to pay that much for (and vice versa, though most of them will be students at my wedding so I’m not expecting it). This is why wedding invitations are often referred to as Red Bombs!
You may be able to get away with not giving anything if you’re performing at a wedding or giving some other kind of service (because then the Bride and Groom will need to give YOU a hongbao, so some people just say ‘Don’t get me anything and then we’re even’. But if you’re not specifically told you’re off the hook then you’re not.)
These are Tainan rules, not sure how well they work in the rest of the country (Taipei seems to be a lot less traditional in these kind of things). But definitely no '4’s.
but I’m, slightly, less clueless now. I’ve seen various figures chucked around but have no idea what. Units of 4 or 8 may have meaning if the couple are superstitious, which my friends aren’t.
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