# Honorifics **URL:** \ **Category:** English Grammar & Usage\ **Created:** [October 22, 2022, 5:17pm UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/honorifics/224600 "2022-10-22T17:17:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![jimipresley](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/jimipresley/32/102867_2.png) [@jimipresley](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/jimipresley)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2022, 5:17pm UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/honorifics/224600/1 "2022-10-22T17:17:27Z")
Just read this on the BBC: “The timing of these actions could not be more significant for the committee. Bannon’s sentence strikes at the heart of Mr Trump’s orbit and represents one of the most high-profile punishments yet handed down to his backers, several of whom have faced federal investigations. The outcome of a case like Bannon’s, which is inextricably linked to the Capitol riot, could point to more turbulent times ahead for Mr Trump, and other top lieutenants.” Why is Trump referred to as “Mr” and Bannon isn’t? ---
**Author:** ![tempogain](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/tempogain/32/264650_2.png) [@tempogain](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/tempogain)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2022, 5:18pm UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/honorifics/224600/2 "2022-10-22T17:18:37Z")
Should we title this “Honorifics for politicians in the UK”, perhaps? ---
**Author:** ![jimipresley](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/jimipresley/32/102867_2.png) [@jimipresley](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/jimipresley)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2022, 5:23pm UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/honorifics/224600/3 "2022-10-22T17:23:12Z")
> [@tempogain](#): > > Should we title this “Honorifics for politicians in the UK”, perhaps? No. Uncle Huang who stumbles a round a rice paddy with no education, is referred to as “Mr Huang”, whereas the bloke interviewing him who has a doctorate in whatever, is called “Bob”. Check out the Discovery etc. channels. ---
**Author:** ![tempogain](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/tempogain/32/264650_2.png) [@tempogain](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/tempogain)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2022, 5:24pm UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/honorifics/224600/4 "2022-10-22T17:24:20Z")
I’m not sure I’m following you, but OK! All around general honorifics thread it is! ---
**Author:** ![jimipresley](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/jimipresley/32/102867_2.png) [@jimipresley](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/jimipresley)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2022, 5:29pm UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/honorifics/224600/5 "2022-10-22T17:29:40Z")
> [@tempogain](#): > > I’m not sure I’m following you, but OK! Don’t be obtuse, mate. Why is Trump called “Mr”, but Bannon isn’t? Why is the bloke tramping in a rice paddy called “Mr”, but the professor interviewing him is called “Bob”? ---
**Author:** ![tempogain](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/tempogain/32/264650_2.png) [@tempogain](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/tempogain)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2022, 5:36pm UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/honorifics/224600/6 "2022-10-22T17:36:24Z")
> [@jimipresley](#): > > Why is the bloke tramping in a rice paddy called “Mr”, but the professor interviewing him is called “Bob”? This is the part I don’t really get. I’m not sure there’s a connection to the first question anyway. It might be a convention of political speech. Like they refer to a former head of state as Mr or Ms as a rule. ---
**Author:** ![jimipresley](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/jimipresley/32/102867_2.png) [@jimipresley](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/jimipresley)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2022, 5:39pm UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/honorifics/224600/7 "2022-10-22T17:39:10Z")
> [@tempogain](#): > > Like they refer to a former head of state as Mr or Ms as a rule. I’m sceptical of that reasoning. ---
**Author:** ![tempogain](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/tempogain/32/264650_2.png) [@tempogain](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/tempogain)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2022, 5:41pm UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/honorifics/224600/8 "2022-10-22T17:41:18Z")
Just speculating! Something is going on I guess. Maybe someone will know for sure! ---
**Author:** ![jimipresley](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/jimipresley/32/102867_2.png) [@jimipresley](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/jimipresley)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2022, 5:45pm UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/honorifics/224600/9 "2022-10-22T17:45:34Z")
> [@tempogain](#): > > Just speculating! Something is going on I guess. Maybe someone will know for sure! Just asking a simple question, mate. No need to make this into a Temp thread. ---
**Author:** ![tempogain](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/tempogain/32/264650_2.png) [@tempogain](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/tempogain)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2022, 5:47pm UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/honorifics/224600/10 "2022-10-22T17:47:32Z")
Well, no need to be rude, is there? ---
**Author:** ![jimipresley](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/jimipresley/32/102867_2.png) [@jimipresley](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/jimipresley)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2022, 5:49pm UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/honorifics/224600/11 "2022-10-22T17:49:17Z")
> [@tempogain](#): > > Well, no need to be rude, is there? 😝 ---
**Author:** ![tempogain](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/tempogain/32/264650_2.png) [@tempogain](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/tempogain)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2022, 5:50pm UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/honorifics/224600/12 "2022-10-22T17:50:42Z")
I’ll give you an honorific 😄 ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Jack](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/charlie_jack/32/246096_2.png) [@Charlie\_Jack](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/Charlie_Jack)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2022, 6:07pm UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/honorifics/224600/13 "2022-10-22T18:07:10Z")
Point taken: In this BBC article, this successful author doesn’t get a _Mr_: > [@](#): > > Niamh Cusack, who stars in the adaptation of the novel at the Apollo Theatre, says the play is part of a ripple effect begun by Haddon’s work 10 years ago. –[“Mark Haddon on textbook murder,” February 24, 2013](https://www.bbc.com/news/av/entertainment-arts-21564658) On the other hand, I don’t know but what maybe _The New York Times_ thinks that every guy rates a _Mr._: > [@](#): > > Mr. Manson was not the end point of the counterculture. –[Baynard Woods, “Charles Manson Was Not a Product of the Counterculture,” November 20, 2017](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/20/opinion/charles-manson-counterculture.html) > [@](#): > > Mr. Whitman, a 25-year-old student, Eagle Scout and Marine veteran, killed a receptionist and two members of a visiting family inside the tower. –[David Montgomery, “Texas Marks ’66 Sniper Attack as University Prepares for ‘Campus-Carry’ Law,” July 30, 2016](https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/31/us/university-of-texas-marks-sniper-attack-with-memorial-and-new-gun-law.html) I guess it’ll have to remain an unsolved m_ **i** _stery. ---
**Author:** ![jimipresley](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/jimipresley/32/102867_2.png) [@jimipresley](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/jimipresley)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2022, 6:22pm UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/honorifics/224600/14 "2022-10-22T18:22:58Z")
I’ve seen this shit over and over again. Is it “Dahmer” or “Mr Dahmer”? Who decides that? ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Jack](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/charlie_jack/32/246096_2.png) [@Charlie\_Jack](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/Charlie_Jack)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2022, 7:02pm UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/honorifics/224600/15 "2022-10-22T19:02:18Z")
> [@jimipresley](#): > > Is it “Dahmer” or “Mr Dahmer”? > Who decides that? With Dahmer, I’m not sure whether _The New York Times_, which has a reputation for generosity in its use of _Mr._, has come to a decision about that. But I’ve found a Dahmer story in which it drops the _Mr._: > [@](#): > > Takach was 18 when Dahmer was arrested. [Remy Tumin, “‘We Don’t Want to Relive It’: Jeffrey Dahmer Drama on Netflix Draws Anger,” October 5, 2022](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/05/arts/television/jeffrey-dahmer-netflix-victims.html) Here’s a very early _New York Times_ article in which he gets the _Mr._ treatment: > [@](#): > > . . . when a man in handcuffs dashed out of Mr. Dahmer’s bizarrely cluttered apartment in a tough Milwaukee neighborhood, called the police and stammered that. . . . > [@](#): > > . . . that Mr. Dahmer drugged their drinks, strangled them. . . . –[James Barron with Mary B. W. Tabor, “17 Killed, and a Life Is Searched for Clues,” August 4, 1991](https://www.nytimes.com/1991/08/04/us/17-killed-and-a-life-is-searched-for-clues.html) I would need a subscription to investigate further, and I don’t have one. Edited to add: _Maybe_ nowadays it’s left to the discretion of the author of the article. ---
**Author:** ![Andrew](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/andrew/32/179806_2.png) [@Andrew](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/Andrew)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2022, 8:16pm UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/honorifics/224600/16 "2022-10-22T20:16:26Z")
> [@jimipresley](#): > > Why is Trump referred to as “Mr” and Bannon isn’t? It’s apparently [BBC style](https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsstyleguide/all) to not use “Mr” etc. for convicted criminals: > **Mr** , **Mrs** etc should be used, except for convicted criminals - and also journalists, sports people, authors, actors, artists, musicians and entertainers **in their professional capacity** (eg: **Throughout the interview, Paxman refused to be sidetracked.** But: **The burglars entered Mr Paxman’s house** ). Court reports, in the UK and abroad, should give defendants an honorific unless and until they are convicted. > > In choosing between **Miss** , **Mrs** and **Ms** , try to find out what the person herself uses, and stick to that. Avoid foreign honorifics (eg: Herr, Madame or Signora). > > There is **no** ban on using honorifics with the dead: it’s a matter of judging what is appropriate eg: A man murdered in front of his family does not immediately become “Smith”; he remains **Mr Smith**. It would be difficult to defend a court report where the victim was “Smith” and the alleged killer “Mr Jones”. ---
**Author:** ![jimipresley](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/jimipresley/32/102867_2.png) [@jimipresley](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/jimipresley)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2022, 8:20pm UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/honorifics/224600/17 "2022-10-22T20:20:24Z")
> [@Andrew](#): > > > [@jimipresley](#): > > > > Why is Trump referred to as “Mr” and Bannon isn’t? > > It’s apparently [BBC style](https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsstyleguide/all) to not use “Mr” etc. for convicted criminals So we wait until Trump becomes a convicted criminal. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Jack](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/charlie_jack/32/246096_2.png) [@Charlie\_Jack](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/Charlie_Jack)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2022, 8:40pm UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/honorifics/224600/18 "2022-10-22T20:40:13Z")
> [@Andrew](#): > > > [@jimipresley](#): > > > > Why is Trump referred to as “Mr” and Bannon isn’t? > > It’s apparently [BBC style](https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsstyleguide/all) to not use “Mr” etc. for convicted criminals: From the same style rules: > [@](#): > > . . . and also journalists, sports people, authors, actors, artists, musicians and entertainers **in their professional capacity**. . . . (boldface in original) So that should explain why the author Mark Haddon doesn’t get a _Mr._: > [@](#): > > Niamh Cusack, who stars in the adaptation of the novel at the Apollo Theatre, says the play is part of a ripple effect begun by Haddon’s work 10 years ago. –[“Mark Haddon on textbook murder,” February 24, 2013](https://www.bbc.com/news/av/entertainment-arts-21564658) > [@](#): > > Haddon’s story Bunny tells of a morbidly obese housebound man who finds love in an old school friend. –[“Buckley beats Mantel and Haddon to BBC story prize,” October 6, 2015](https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-34458148) I guess that clears that one up. ---
**Author:** ![mad\_masala](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/mad_masala/32/182103_2.png) [@mad\_masala](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/mad_masala)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2022, 12:12am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/honorifics/224600/19 "2022-10-23T00:12:05Z")
> [@tempogain](#): > > Just speculating! Something is going on I guess. Maybe someone will know for sure! Actually what you said might be right. I mean, in the past Mr, Ms, etc… was widely used in the press and in some other contexts, but not much anymore. However Trump is an ex president and there might be a convention to address presidents and fauna of the kind as Mr. The newspapers style guides used to be public, and I just found the one from The Times but as a PDF you need to purchase… I wonder if we can get the relevant style guide for this case and solve that question. ---
**Author:** ![mad\_masala](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/mad_masala/32/182103_2.png) [@mad\_masala](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/mad_masala)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2022, 12:14am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/honorifics/224600/20 "2022-10-23T00:14:04Z")
OK, you found the style guide I was talking about. Kudos to you. [Next page](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/honorifics/224600.md?page=2)