How Amateur Sleuths Broke the Wuhan Lab Story and Embarrassed the Media

This fits in line with news of High Ranking CCP Defector leaking info to DIA for last 3 months, and also why we have seen increased pressure on China and renewed interest in the lab leak theory.


A very reasonable, nuanced perspective.

Michael Lauer, deputy director for extramural research at the NIH, told the Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee that as of April 2021 the agency has contacted over 90 institutions “regarding concerns involving over 200 scientists.”

“The individuals violating laws and policies represent a small proportion of scientists working in and with U.S. institutions. We must ensure that our responses to this issue do not create a hostile environment for colleagues who are deeply dedicated to advancing human health through scientific inquiry,” Lauer said. “We cannot afford to reject brilliant minds working honestly and collaboratively to provide hope and healing to millions around the world.”

Senator Richard Burr, a ranking member of the committee, said during his opening statement that “the government of the People’s Republic of China and the Chinese Communist Party are the most sophisticated perpetrators, but other foreign actors are also engaged in efforts to subvert our biomedical research.”

And in the very next paragraph, Burr continues:

Burr went on to explain that there is an effort by Chinese individuals, “backed by their government,” to work in the U.S. “with the full intent to bring back to China’s government everything they can learn, store or steal.”


Groundbreaking stuff, but worth educating people on I guess.

I’m not following you. What is groundbreaking?

Here’s the latest conviction…last month actually:

Song Guo Zheng[edit]
In May 2021, Dr. Song Guo Zheng, an Ohio resident and rheumatology professor/researcher with “strong ties to China” was sentenced to 37 months in prison and ordered to pay over $3.8 million dollars in restitution to the NIH and The Ohio State University (at which Zheng formerly led a research team)[121] after being convicted of making false statements to federal authorities regarding his ties to China.[122] He had, before his sentencing, pleaded guilty to lying on NIH grant applications to spend funds helping develop China’s immunology and rheumatology expertise.[121] Zheng had lied about and hidden his connection to China’s Thousand Talents Plan, which the FBI described as “a program established by the Chinese government to recruit individuals with knowledge or access to foreign technology intellectual property.”[122]

You know…for education purposes.

And for a bit more on the TTP:

In November 2019, the US Senate Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations and Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs held an open hearing on the China’s Talent Recruitment Plans, including the TTP, and called the programs a threat to national security.[32][33] The report from the hearing cited TTP contracts as violating research values, TTP members willfully failing to disclose their membership to their home institutions, and cited numerous cases against TTP members for theft of intellectual property and fraud.[32] One TTP member stole proprietary defense information on U.S. military jet engines.[32] The reported indicated that “TTP targets U.S.-based researchers and scientists, regardless of ethnicity or citizenship, who focus on or have access to cutting-edge research and technology.”[32]

Although the program has successfully attracted top international talent to China, its efficacy in retaining these talented individuals has been questioned, with many of the most talented scientists willing to spend short periods in China but unwilling to abandon their tenured positions at major Western universities.[5] Additionally, some Thousand Talents Plan Professors have reported fraud in the program including misappropriated grant funding, poor accommodations, and violations of research ethics.[34] Dismissals due to undisclosed connections to the TTP have taken place.[35] Individuals who receive either of China’s two top academic awards, the Thousand Talents Professorship and the Changjiang (Yangtze River) Scholar award, have become targets for recruitment by China’s wealthiest universities so frequently that the Ministry of Education issued notices in both 2013 and 2017 discouraging Chinese universities from recruiting away top talent from one another.[36][37]

The success of the program in recruiting U.S.-trained scientists back to China has been viewed with concern from the U.S., with a June 2018 report from the National Intelligence Council declaring an underlying motivation of the program to be “to facilitate the legal and illicit transfer of US technology, intellectual property and know-how” to China.[38] In January 2020, the Federal Bureau of Investigation arrested Charles M. Lieber, the chair of Harvard University’s Department of Chemistry and Chemical Biology, for lying about his ties to the program.[39][40] In May 2020, the FBI arrested a former researcher at the Cleveland Clinic for failing to disclose ties to the Thousand Talents Program.[41] In June 2020, it was reported that the National Institutes of Health had investigations into the behavior of 189 scientists.[42] In November 2020, Song Guo Zheng, a TTP participant, pled guilty to making false claims to the FBI about his ties to the Chinese government during his employment at Ohio State University.[43]

In August 2020, Canadian Security Intelligence Service warned both Canadian universities and Canadian research institutions of the TTP, saying that it recruited researchers and scientists around the world to persuade them to share their research and technology — either willingly or by coercion.[3]

Here’s a local, for me, one:

1 Like

And this:

In 2014 the Obama administration outlawed gain of function research, such as the experiments funded by EHA, after concerns were raised among scientists that it could lead to a global pandemic from a genetically enhanced virus escaping a lab.

But EHA reportedly continued to legally fund the practice, using a loophole that allowed for the research in cases ‘urgently necessary to protect the public health or national security.’

1 Like

That’s because it’s not, it’s sarcasm, and obvious.

In 2014 the Obama administration outlawed gain of function research, such as the experiments funded by EHA, after concerns were raised among scientists that it could lead to a global pandemic from a genetically enhanced virus escaping a lab.

He didn’t outlaw them completely, the 2014 directive See here had an exemption if the head of the USG funding agency determined it was in national security interests to do it.

Although I would love to know the reasoning for lifting such a ban, just 11 days before Obama left office, no one has offered a possible reason for that.


No it’s not. Or I wouldn’t have asked. What’s kind of obvious is your seemingly deliberate contrarian POV. :idunno:

Maybe Mups has one…you know, an obvious one. :brain:

I don’t have a contrarian point of view on this, I don’t think.

China has tried to steal, spy, whatever, for decades. This is nothing new. This is the obvious part. (I posted the list of Chinese spies caught in the US).

Which is what makes my ‘groundbreaking stuff’ comment sarcasm.

I often find it weird so many uncomplicated comments need so much clarification around here, but it’s forumosa afterall. :joy:

Do you think it’s possible that your ego may interfere with your ability to properly gauge the clarity of your posts, particularly the sarcastic ones? :idunno:


Not really, combined with my link, it was obvious enough.

I’ve seen much weirder ones though. Once I said ‘prudent’ and this was interpreted as calling someone a race traitor. :sweat_smile:

It’s a weird place to be sure. I tend to think the lack of understanding centers around obsessing over posters, not the content of their posts. :brain:

I’ve put a lot of thought into some of my posts in this thread, for example, pointing out nuances in trusting institutions of democracies over others, generally, but also with using a critical eye when called for…as opposed to blanket distrust/cynicism.

And often that becomes completely mischaracterized/simplified when people reply to me. But I’ve come to expect it in these parts, like the sun rising. :sun_behind_small_cloud: Life goes on.

1 Like

And yet this insight doesn’t seem to prevent you from doing the very same thing. Like, hmm, for example, just tonight in the Hunter Biden thread, when you mischaracterized my post, written in jest to another poster, about the media missing out on easy clickbait.

If you can’t clear the bar you set for yourself, lower it.

I quoted you.

Something a lot of other people have issues with accomplishing, consistently (quoting, that is, to be crystal clear :grinning:). That’s the truth, I know some don’t want to face it, and :peace_symbol:.

and we’d find the former US president at the bottom of every shifting sand pit

1 Like

Chill pills please. Please take a few moments away from the keyboards!

1 Like


A post was merged into an existing topic: Wuhan lab leak theory