How can a Taiwanese salary be enough?

Each week , I see reports from Belgian salaries posted on a local website over there and can only say that 60-70K over here is better than 1.500 Euro back in the ol country. Cost of living makes a deep which ain’t this issue here. You can simply save more here, even on a “lower” salary but still eating healthy if not buying 100NTD oversloppy and greasy bientangs…
Now, “taiwan salaries” is indeed an in between of 25K to 300 K, depending what you are trained for and what unique value you can bring.
I took a 63% cut on my previous salary when coming back to Taiwan and was happy with what I got, still being higher than 65% of the average TW salary.

I always thought that people live up to their means. You make more, you spend more no?

Taiwan salaries are compressed for blue collar workers, but they are not for white collar talents.

After rent, power, phone I’m left with 20k. Since being here I’ve managed to save 10k a month. I don’t exactly live a life of luxury but I’ve never denied myself anything. I spend maybe $2000 p/month on groceries and go out to dinner with friends at least once a week. I’m an intern here and get paid sweet f all…saving $400 nz a month when I could be saving that much per week back home (esp. with the insane hours I do), and with a nz$42k student loan…makes for a fun time Taiwan-side.

A question to the OP (or everyone else really): what would be an acceptable monthly amount to add to your savings (or to send back home to pay debts, help your family and so on)? 15.000ntd? 30.000ntd? More?

It can be tough being a salaryman/woman anywhere. I think that Taiwanese salaries are enough when, as JimiP alluded too, you restrict your lifestyle and life quality to a fairly large degree OR you have family who take care of the big expenses like mortgages, cars and child car.
If you ARE making good money Taiwan is good because you can sock a larger percentage of it away due to relatively lower cost of living compared to many places.
I always say try to make more money in Taiwan rather than trying to restrict yourself. I know people all have different ideas on this.

As was advised earlier in this thread,

hookers and blow… the rest of it I would waste.

This is a topic I have also discussed with my Taiwanese friends. They have more or less the same issues, and I say more or less because with their degrees/work experience and not being an expat, their road to the 100K grail is a lot bumpier. I mean, my BFF makes 50K and is considered the msot successful by her friends. Truth be told, she hates her job, her bosses are morons of unbelievable caliber, and the company in general bleeds money like Niagara falls, though never on the employees. yet, as she says, that salary allows her the steam blowing trips say, to India, or a shopping spree on PC home. Most importantly, an independent life from her family. She could be saving more if she lived at home but ce 2. moving South means less salary and even less job opportunities/advancement.

For us expats, we also need to blow of the steam of the tension from cultural clashes. Sure, I want my books, my magazines, my new nail polish. But that is not really a lot, it is not an every day grind. The lion’s share of expenses is just living, even though I compare my utilities bill to you guys and it is average, I live in a cheapo apartment, travel by metro, no drinking/fancy meals/extravagant expenses. Vacations were usually going to the ol country to visit family, which takes 200K of my savings. Retirement savings at 30K? You kiddin’, if I can scrounge 10K I am happy as a lark. Bismark was apalled with my pet expenses, he says it is 3 times more than his child education. Well, there are six pets, and if they do not eat well, they get sick, which is more expensive. Which leads me to the food expense: I get a service that is convenient and for me the price is right, many say too expensive but I factor the time devoted to shop/cook/brownbag for a single person… better have someone else do it.

I have lives with 15K (scholarship, no fun, hungry most of the time, you don’t wanna know about living conditions), 30K (first salary), 50K and up to where I am now. I am with Jimmi when I say that, even though I do not make 100K yet, that 100K is the goal for comfortable living where you won’t be constantly checking the balance nervously or compromising future long term plans (retirement) or short term (vacation trips, for example). Plus you do need a nest egg for emergencies, 500K fluid cash me thinks. At least. And never, never be stingy on medical coverage/insurance.

Takes 6000 usd/month income here in the bay area to match what 2000 usd/month brings in Taipei, living standard wise. In view our HUGE taxes. 6000usd means bout 2000 of that goes straight to taxes. And our expenses are about 1.5 times that of taipei for most things.

I’m not sure how old you are, Icon, but have you thought about how much you will need to be able to afford to retire someday? You don’t want to get into your 40’s / 50’s without a nice nest egg already well on its way to securing your future.

A good rule of thumb is 30,000 NT ( 1000 USD ) a month for 30 years. But that’s only enough if you also earn 7% a year on your investments which given the horrendous performance of financial advisors that is nearly an impossibility. If you can’t earn 7% a year every year for 30 years on your investments ( which is a good assumption in this day in age ) you should start saving 40,000 - 50,000 NT a month for 30 years.

I know that sounds very daunting to a lot of people, but it’s better to know that now when you still have time rather than find out when your in your early 50’s that your retirement fund isn’t going to be enough.

I’ve got my retirement sorted, I don’t plan on retiring :slight_smile:.

Seriously, I wonder what retirement is going to look like in the future, we are going to be living for so long (some of us) that you do need to be a multi-millionaire to be able to afford not to work for 30+ years, not including dependents and what-not.

As the pensionable age move inexorably upwards, it’s possible that somebody that is 40 now won’t get a pension until 70+ (public pension). As for private pensions, I guess it depends on a lot of different factors too.

As I listed previously, I have no problem living on around 25k. It’s a bit stressful to be constantly checking your balance, but I could do it. I just wouldn’t save anything and would have to shut off my social life. As it is, on 39k I go clothes shopping only once a year, skip a lot of movies that I could wait for rebroadcast on TV, and rarely eat Western food (or anything above NT$150, for that matter).

So assuming that 25k covers basic expenses, I would like another US$1,000 on top of that, which I would put to moving back to Taipei (where I find rent to be very high), occassional travel, more frequent clothes shopping, the Nikon D7100 I want, and of course slowly repaying credit card and student loans (although this may actually require even more money than that). If I wanted to save up for retirement as Brent Golf suggests, it would need to be probably in the 80k range. None of my friends make that much, though, so it kind of seems like a pipe dream to someone who’s unemployed.

[quote=“headhonchoII”]I’ve got my retirement sorted, I don’t plan on retiring :slight_smile:.

Seriously, I wonder what retirement is going to look like in the future, we are going to be living for so long (some of us) that you do need to be a multi-millionaire to be able to afford not to work for 30+ years, not including dependents and what-not.

As the pensionable age move inexorably upwards, it’s possible that somebody that is 40 now won’t get a pension until 70+ (public pension). As for private pensions, I guess it depends on a lot of different factors too.[/quote]

I’m kinda thinking the same, beside the older I get the best I get paid. I’m kinda retired right now, now that I think about it.

[quote=“headhonchoII”]

Seriously, I wonder what retirement is going to look like in the future, we are going to be living for so long (some of us) that you do need to be a multi-millionaire to be able to afford not to work for 30+ years, not including dependents and what-not.

As the pensionable age move inexorably upwards, it’s possible that somebody that is 40 now won’t get a pension until 70+ (public pension). As for private pensions, I guess it depends on a lot of different factors too.[/quote]

We have no idea what sort of medical advances will happen between now and our dotage. We could live well into our 100’s, who knows! I reckon that working lives will extend further and further into the future. To be honest, I can very well see myself working, even just part time or from home, well into my 70’s or even 80’s. I want to remain active in my old age, not just physically but also mentally. My hubby has different ideas, he wants to stop at 60 and golf everyday. :laughing: But I don’t see that happening…I think it’s unrealistic to be able to save enough to retire at 60 / 65 when you don’t know what the economy or healthcare will look like in the future. To be honest, the thought of retiring that young makes me uneasy…65 is so young nowadays!!! And I plan on living a very long life! :slight_smile:

[quote=“Indiana”][quote=“headhonchoII”]

Seriously, I wonder what retirement is going to look like in the future, we are going to be living for so long (some of us) that you do need to be a multi-millionaire to be able to afford not to work for 30+ years, not including dependents and what-not.

As the pensionable age move inexorably upwards, it’s possible that somebody that is 40 now won’t get a pension until 70+ (public pension). As for private pensions, I guess it depends on a lot of different factors too.[/quote]

We have no idea what sort of medical advances will happen between now and our dotage. We could live well into our 100’s, who knows! I reckon that working lives will extend further and further into the future. To be honest, I can very well see myself working, even just part time or from home, well into my 70’s or even 80’s. I want to remain active in my old age, not just physically but also mentally. My hubby has different ideas, he wants to stop at 60 and golf everyday. :laughing: But I don’t see that happening…I think it’s unrealistic to be able to save enough to retire at 60 / 65 when you don’t know what the economy or healthcare will look like in the future. To be honest, the thought of retiring that young makes me uneasy…65 is so young nowadays!!! And I plan on living a very long life! :slight_smile:[/quote]

My mum, who’s now 67, did all the right thing with investments, has a good pension but according to her financial manager, the last five years of economic crisis mean that she really only has enough to last her until she’s 82. And that’s with all her investments in Australia which largely escaped the worst of the GFC. After that, she’ll still have the govt pension, and her house is probably worth a bit, but even with the best planning and best intentions, retirement is increasingly becoming a bit of a lottery.

We are only a breakthrough or two away from a life expectancy somewhere near 100 - it’s over 80 in most advanced countries now and for females in Japan is fast approaching 90. Other countries won’t be far behind. So how long do you plan a retirement for? I know a number of people who have parents / grandparents in their 90’s and a few over 100 here in Taiwan. For a lot of people under 50 today, if you plan to retire at 60, you’d better have enough $ to last you 40 years. More and more, people are going to be working into their 70’s and 80’s, so one would be advised to make sure that what you do for work is something you love or at least enjoy. Even if it pays a bit less, you’ll probably be better off in the long run.

This is it…how long do you plan retirement for when you have no idea how long you will live? My philosophy now is to make investments that will bring me income, which for my husband and I equates to property. I know that this can potentially be a money pit, but I think that if we diversify enough with different types of properties we can have somewhat of a reliable income that will last us indefinitely. That has been the only viable solution we have come up with since neither of us will be getting pensions from our home countries. At least with property, rents should go up with inflation and cost of living (hopefully!!!).

I think planning a full retirement at age 65 is reasonable, and if you like your job or it’s the kind of job you can do part time or at home then go ahead and plan on working well into your 70’s. All that would mean is your lifestyle would be even better than you planned because you’ll be making some extra money along the way. But it’s best to err on the side of caution and plan to save enough for a full 30 years of unemployment.

I totally agree.

Of course it’s a very good idea to plan ahead and do the best you can to put a decent retirement fund together, I think it’s going to be a real struggle for a lot of folks though due to economic reasons along with longer life spans. Salary stagflation has been a bitch and if quantitative easing hadn’t been implemented stock prices wouldn’t be anywhere like they are now, once again baby boomers screwing us over.
I’m working on some business plans, mainly to escape being a corporate drone and to try and achieve my ‘dreams’ but I also realise how little job security there is there days and how much money you can make from a business compared to a job (unless you have that special skill set/professional qualification that people are looking for).
It seems technology is accelerating job loss too, the only way to beat this is to be at the top of the pile.

All this talk about saving up for retirement and no one has mentioned annuities. If you’re still relatively young, say in your early 30s, you should definitely consider getting annuities. If you’re younger, it’s even better. I started when I was around 30. You first determine how much money you’re able to salt away a year, you then set the time you want to start collecting (age 55, 60, 63?), and you collect (like a landlord collecting from a good tenant who never moves out) until the day you die. It’s a great system as the cash won’t run out, and nobody knows when they’ll check out from this world.

I know nothing about annuities…you have given me a great summer research project. Cheers! :thumbsup: