How can Taiwan seek independence if it is already independent?

[quote=“Decapitus”]“China” is a name. ROC now represents the 23 million people and Taiwan, not 1.3 billion people and mongolia.

If you strip a car down to its engines, do you still call the engine a car?[/quote]

Then your analogy should have been, “a man’s arms and legs were cut off, and the appendages said ‘we are already a new human!’”

And no, an engine is not already a new car, it’s only a part from the old car. TIers want to put it into a new car, but they ain’t there yet.

[quote=“zeugmite”][quote=“Decapitus”]“China” is a name. ROC now represents the 23 million people and Taiwan, not 1.3 billion people and mongolia.

If you strip a car down to its engines, do you still call the engine a car?[/quote]

Then your analogy should have been, “a man’s arms and legs were cut off, and the appendages said ‘we are already a new human!’”

And no, an engine is not already a new car, it’s only a part from the old car. TIers want to put it into a new car, but they ain’t there yet.[/quote]

No, my analogy is “a man’s arms and legs were cut off, and the appendages claims to be independent appendages”

And of course, an engine is certainly not a new car, it can certainly be part of a car, but nothing stops an engine just being a separate entity not assoiciated to anything.

Yes, in other words, nothing stops Taiwan from being a part of China that rules itself. My point exactly.

probably not a troll, but certainly ignorant.

I agree. The difference is simple; ‘de facto’ does not equal ‘de jure’ to any serious person.
As long as ‘China’ remains on a Taiwan passport, and as part of the ‘official’ name, there is no honest “Independence.” Freedom is not free.

Correct. Perhaps it is too simple for trolls?

Good lord. You dig up a thread that’s been dead for 13 years, just to attack people as trolls?

Once a troll always a troll.

(Sigh) More forum necrophilia. We might as well ask how Beijing can demand reunification, since Taiwan is already a part of China.

13 years later? lol. anyway. The point that the OP missed (or omitted) is that TW is de facto independent but mainland does not allow it to be de jure independent based on a technicality. In response the pro-independence has come up with a technicality to argue its de jure independence as well. Basically it goes like this, ROC is actually not TW but an occupying force that occupied an independent TW, as evident from WWII era documents including those issued by Mao himself, during WWII. Also note that if ROC is an occupying force then it doesn’t matter if it considers TW part of china or adheres to one china policy. An interesting fact that is true regardless of whether you believe that TW was independent or not is that TW had the same government as mainland for 4 out of the last 200 years.

Nonsense. We are talking about today and tomorrow…
Yes.
Taiwan was invaded by the defeated nationalist forces; Ancient history.
What Xi would like is not how a democracy decides it’s future.
Will people who live in Taiwan fight for their freedoms? I do not see it.
Will people in Taiwan welcome Xi as long as he brings money? …more tourists? Yes.
Would Ma be re-elected if elections were held next week? Yes.

Reviving this thread to link an excellent new article in Foreign Affairs by Nathan Batto at Academia Sinica (and also part-time Frozen Garlic blogger). In this essay, Batto tracks not simply how Taiwan has become already actually independent, but also how calls for Taiwan to be politically part of China have become ballot box poison. Following many twists and turns, it’s a fasincating read.

Guy

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