How can we improve the image of English teachers in Asia?

Discussion Open Forum
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Teachers (English Language Coaches) don’t get paid enough here to attract certified professionals. Only enough to attract “crazies.” The only reason certified professionals come here are 99% not related to teaching (girlfriend, interest in the culture, etc.)

English Language Coach Trainer Professioanls don’t get paid very much. They get paid a lot by local standards and in comparison to flipping burgers, but at the end of the day the wages here aren’t enough to get anyone to rip up their roots and come over (unless they want to, or they don’t have any ie. under 25.)

42

  1. Criminal Records Check;

  2. A system which can actually validate diplomas or mandatory certification of diplomas in said persons home country. Although time consuming, it may save a mess of trouble. One phone call is all it takes;

  3. Narrow the grey area and give concise standards;

  4. Licensing for ESL Teachers (Yes, a card with a serial number and your mugshot);

  5. I’ve always found it funny how a 21 year old can teach here in Asia. So the minimum age requirement sounds like a good idea to me.

This goes out to the Buxiban owners:

Very simple. Is it really that difficult to pick up a phone and call overseas in order to contact (legitimate) previous employers that have relevance to the position posted?

It’s a tall order to fill but if people on this board are serious about ‘cleaning’ up the system then I feel as if this is the way to go. Which, in turn, should shoot salaries through the roof.

As a side note: I found the News to be extremely slanted yet again. I was, yet again, pissed off to see that Western Foreigners were cast in this light. Doesn’t it frost any of you to the point where you’d like to throw the TV off the balcony? It drives me comepletely up the wall. How and the hell can these news agencies justify that kind of garbage on their networks? Pulling up past reports, showing local buxibans and basically blasting every light or dark skinned foreigner that walks the streets of Taiwan. Ah Taiwan…some days I love ya…others I wish China would rumble in here while I sit on my balcony watchin the fireworks. Then I’d gladly swim back to CanaDUH.

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[quote=“Truant”]To answer the OP.

Ban Canadians. Surely that will improve the image, right? :p[/quote]

I FaaaaAAaaaaRT in your general direction.

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Criminal background checks should be manditory. Laobans should check references, too. I came to Taiwan with two letters of reference and a criminal background check. Not only did no prospective employer ask for them, they were never even looked at when offered.

This goes back to what I said previously about buxibans cleaning up their act. Demand more professionalism from the employee, and temper that with fair treatment.

I also agree with a minimum age requirement. Twenty-five sounds reasonable. It allows graduates to gain a bit of life experience and responsibility, and a chance to move beyond the 24/7 party mentality.

Here’s another suggestion: Implement a programme that allows uncertified teachers an opportunity to gain certification while working in Taiwan.

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[quote=“Hongda”]One of the big problems is the use of the word, “Teacher”…I think if the term were changed to Language Conversation Coach, Language Conversation Tutor, or just English Conversationalist, this would give a much lower expectation to live up to then the image that most Asians expect from real teachers. Although then they would be considered much more overpaid then they are now.[/quote]Funny that. Some of the adult language schools describe their teachers as “consultants”, presumably because they think it sounds more professional than “teachers”.

I’m rather straightforward on this issue. You either teach or you don’t. If you teach, you’re a teacher.

[quote=“Hongda”]Let’s face it, most of the time when I ask someone what they do they kind of hmmm and haaaw, shuffle their feet and shamefully murmur…“I’m an English teacher”, so even they apparently know this title is not realistic. I often pat them on the back and say, “That’s ok man, I used to do that also”. :laughing:[/quote]You won’t hear any shameful murmurs from me. I love my job.

[quote=“miltownkid”]Teachers (English Language Coaches) don’t get paid enough here to attract certified professionals. Only enough to attract “crazies.” The only reason certified professionals come here are 99% not related to teaching (girlfriend, interest in the culture, etc.)[/quote]Hmmm. Not sure about that. I know quite a few people with CELTAs, Trinity Cert. TESOLs, DELTAs and the like.

I suppose you might have been talking about people who are certified to teach subjects in state schools in their “home countries”. That’s not a professional qualification for EFL teaching, though. It may well be very helpful, but it’s not a specific professional qualification for EFL. There isn’t such a thing, officially, although the defacto ones at the moment are the Cambridge and Trinity qualifications. (MAs in TESOL and the like also come in handy but, again, they’re not “professional qualifications” for EFL).

[quote=“miltownkid”]English Language Coach Trainer Professioanls don’t get paid very much. They get paid a lot by local standards and in comparison to flipping burgers, but at the end of the day the wages here aren’t enough to get anyone to rip up their roots and come over (unless they want to, or they don’t have any ie. under 25.)[/quote]Well, that’s one thing. It’s a similar situation in many places though. You can be a well-qualified person teaching EFL in Spain or Greece and still not get very much money.

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Schools exist here to make money, not teach english.

Customers…er, I mean, Parents have the biggest say in the quality of teaching.

Many view that a North American accent from a white face is the most important factor in their kids learning to speak english, not the qualification of the teachers. While there is this attitude, many substandard teachers will be brought it to make the businesses run.

Many teachers are here to make money, not teach english.

It’s a win-win situation.

47

What Truant said. Interesting brainstorms these might be, but none of them would ever be seriously considered unless they somehow helped the bottom line of buxiban owners. Anything that reduces the pool of potential teachers is going to increase salaries. Perhaps in theory some sort of accreditation scheme could allow schools to charge a premium, but I don’t see those ever getting off the ground.

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I personally blame the local English teaching environment more than the people who work in it. It’s been established already that buxibans are money making businesses first. People have a tendency to do what is expected of them; if they aren’t expected to do much, they won’t. Quality? Actually, most of the people who come here are sufficently qualified (ie holders of at least a BA degree). Yes, they are young and like to party. However, some of these young guys you see partying hard in the pubs are actually pretty good instructors when they’re on the clock. Money is a motivation for teachers, sure. Show me anyone, though, who works for a living where that isn’t at least partialy true for them. As for reputation, I think a lot of it is perception on our part. Reading these boards and threads like this can lead one to believe we are regarded with a fair bit more scorn than we actually are. Most people I meet here, when they see that I have a real degree from a decent western university and have acquired semi-decent Mandarin skills in my time here, think this English teacher is actually pretty good. I suggest that the local percepton of us may be somewhat more positive than our perception of ourselves. We should just live our lives and not care what a minority of job snobs and others think of what we are doing.

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If you take a look at the OP, the concern there is the harboring of pedophiles and other unsavory types in an unregulated industry in Asia.

I reckon a heads up, not a heads down approach would be better off for the industry as a whole in the long term, not to mention the welfare of the kids being taught.

At the very least, it would provide a better environment for those who are good at what they do, are respected and valued by the community they live in, such as yourself.

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If you take a look at the OP, the concern there is the harboring of pedophiles and other unsavory types in an unregulated industry in Asia.

I reckon a heads up, not a heads down approach would be better off for the industry as a whole in the long term, not to mention the welfare of the kids being taught.

At the very least, it would provide a better environment for those who are good at what they do, are respected and valued by the community they live in, such as yourself.[/quote]

Damned right. Good post. Although I can’t verif this, annecdotally I did hear of the ocassional “strange uncle” teacher that was silently tossed out of the country. One wonders where they went? On to Korea, Thailand, Vietnam, then Cambodia? Of course the buxibans have no interest in making a big deal of it (bear in mind that I’m not saying this is rampant), but still, an international registry would help all concerned.

Damned right. Good post. Although I can’t verify this, anecdotally I did hear of the occasional “strange uncle” teacher that was silently tossed out of the country. One wonders where they went? On to Korea, Thailand, Vietnam, then Cambodia? Of course the buxibans have no interest in making a big deal of it (bear in mind that I’m not saying this is rampant), but still, an international registry would help all concerned.

HG

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[quote=“Truant”]
If you take a look at the OP, the concern there is the harboring of pedophiles and other unsavory types in an unregulated industry in Asia.[/quote]

I did look at the OP. I don’t see much relation between the JonBenet suspect and teachers in Taiwan. I would like some statistical proof that Taiwan FTs are more likely to be pedophiles than any other group of people, anywhere else in the world. Perceptions are subjective and often the result of prejudices. We can say many things about the average FT in Taiwan, but I don’t think it’s fair to suggest that their ranks are populated by pedophiles unless hard proof of this can be established. One high profile case involving a person who was not working in Taiwan does not establish that FTs are all of the sort.

Not sure what you mean. The industry is largely out of the control of the majority of FTs. We have little impact on the regulatory environment nor the attitudes toward language teaching/learning. Changes to industry are the responsibility of the Taiwanese and not the foreign employee. Let’s be realistic about this.

I find the perception of FTs as having a poor rep is one mainly expessed by other expatriates. It doesn’t seem to hold true in my dealings with any other group. I think this perception exists because teachers are probably the largest single group of western expats in Taiwan and, because of the demand, teaching is one of the easiest jobs to get here.

I say that FTs do what they can in the environment in which they work (which they have little ability to change). I also say that the supposed reputation that FTs supposedly have is coming from people that don’t matter. Local people tend not to view us that negatively. That’s why I say that FTs ought to just work and avoid the tendency to, as the locals would say, “think too much.”

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If you take a look at the OP, the concern there is the harboring of pedophiles and other unsavory types in an unregulated industry in Asia.

I reckon a heads up, not a heads down approach would be better off for the industry as a whole in the long term, not to mention the welfare of the kids being taught.

At the very least, it would provide a better environment for those who are good at what they do, are respected and valued by the community they live in, such as yourself.[/quote]

Damned right. Good post. Although I can’t verif this, annecdotally I did hear of the ocassional “strange uncle” teacher that was silently tossed out of the country. One wonders where they went? On to Korea, Thailand, Vietnam, then Cambodia? Of course the buxibans have no interest in making a big deal of it (bear in mind that I’m not saying this is rampant), but still, an international registry would help all concerned.

HG[/quote]

Similiar situation in Tainan in the beginning of the year that was kept relatively quiet. Reference was only made to a “strange uncle”. Through my school manager I tried to find out the details. She later told me it was a Taiwanese man (not a teacher or school owner), related in someway to the owner of the school were the incident occurred. Unfortunately, it was kept quiet and he was niether prosecuted nor kicked out of the country.

Perhaps if society at large took these things more seriously and doled out a bullet in the back of the head (a la PRC) instead of deporting or merely imprisoning these SOB’s we would all be happier. I know I would.

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I know a few people in the major trade offices in town. They tell me that since their home countries are cracking down on pedophiles with neighborhood alerts, tracking systems etc. a lot of them are heading over to Asian English teaching circuit. I guess its not that big of a surprise.

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I will answer your post properly when I have time, but…

Well that is the point. Without a regulated or controlled industry it’s hidden…there are no stats. As for any other group of people? Well, AFAIK pedophiles like kids. So, they are going to be drawn into situation where there are kids. Lots of them, preferably.
Asia is behind the rest of the world as far as safeguarding what is acceptable and what is not regarding inappropriate situations.

No statistics, just logic. But you are welcome to provide stats of your own to prove me wrong.

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I will answer your post properly when I have time, but…

Well that is the point. Without a regulated or controlled industry it’s hidden…there are no stats. As for any other group of people? Well, AFAIK pedophiles like kids. So, they are going to be drawn into situation where there are kids. Lots of them, preferably.
Asia is behind the rest of the world as far as safeguarding what is acceptable and what is not regarding inappropriate situations.

No statistics, just logic. But you are welcome to provide stats of your own to prove me wrong.[/quote]

Nope. Provide the proof to support your claim. If you are going to take the position that a particular field of work contains more disgusting criminals than others, you should at least provide hard proof of it. A priori reasoning doesn’t cut it, neither does media frenzy reporting of relatively few incidents.

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I would like to think logic would click in here eventually. People with no credentials, no background check and no experience allowed to teach young children and in many situations with no other adult present.

57

I will answer your post properly when I have time, but…

Well that is the point. Without a regulated or controlled industry it’s hidden…there are no stats. As for any other group of people? Well, AFAIK pedophiles like kids. So, they are going to be drawn into situation where there are kids. Lots of them, preferably.
Asia is behind the rest of the world as far as safeguarding what is acceptable and what is not regarding inappropriate situations.

No statistics, just logic. But you are welcome to provide stats of your own to prove me wrong.[/quote]

Nope. Provide the proof to support your claim. If you are going to take the position that a particular field of work contains more disgusting criminals than others, you should at least provide hard proof of it. A priori reasoning doesn’t cut it, neither does media frenzy reporting of relatively few incidents.[/quote]

Toasty, not wanting to be alarmist or point ther finger, but i do think it fair to assume that a) pedophiles are attracted to Asia and that b) they often seek work which entails contact with kids. It’s just the way it is. The education sector should be ahead of this issue. Of course this in no way means every teacher’s a ped.

HG

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I will answer your post properly when I have time, but…

Well that is the point. Without a regulated or controlled industry it’s hidden…there are no stats. As for any other group of people? Well, AFAIK pedophiles like kids. So, they are going to be drawn into situation where there are kids. Lots of them, preferably.
Asia is behind the rest of the world as far as safeguarding what is acceptable and what is not regarding inappropriate situations.

No statistics, just logic. But you are welcome to provide stats of your own to prove me wrong.[/quote]

Nope. Provide the proof to support your claim. If you are going to take the position that a particular field of work contains more disgusting criminals than others, you should at least provide hard proof of it. A priori reasoning doesn’t cut it, neither does media frenzy reporting of relatively few incidents.[/quote]

Toasty, not wanting to be alarmist or point ther finger, but i do think it fair to assume that a) pedophiles are attracted to Asia and that b) they often seek work which entails contact with kids. It’s just the way it is. The education sector should be ahead of this issue. Of course this in no way means every teacher’s a ped.

HG[/quote]

Then we ought to be able to prove this reality with some form of evidence. Real world phenomena are not best described through assumptions and subjective opinions. I am not simply going to allow the assumption to stand that FTs in Taiwan are statistically more likely to be sex offenders than other expats in Asia without the stats to support it.

I guess I don’t like some of the negative characterizations of FTs that are being presented as fact without evidence. The only one that holds true where my experience is concerned is that FTs tend to be young, new uni grads who come to Asia for a good time. Surprising as it may seem, though, many of them are actually good instructors.

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What’s a FT? :blush:

I just tried to do a Google for pedophiles and teachers but erh, the work net nanny stopped it (oh gawd!). Still, I have seen stuff on pedophiles back when I was a psychiatric nurse, and, looking for careers involving children is, unsurprisngly, high up there. Of course opedophiles aren;t the only problem.

I do take your point though, in my experience teachers I’ve known in Taiwan have been mostly very concerned and gifted folks that do care about the kids or adult students.

HG

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FT= foreign teacher. Sorry, I’m a bit lazy and resort to short cuts. Hope you don’t mind, HCG :wink:

I do know that people with specific mental disorders tend to gravitate toward certain professions. Psychiatry and Medicine sees a higher than normal incidence of people with anti-social disorder. Politicians often exhibit symptoms of borderline personality disorder. Heck, many here exhibit symptoms of OCD (Oops.I take that back). And, yes, jobs involving Children more often attract peds.

My point is that it isn’t proven that expatriates in fields like teaching are any more likely, statistically, to be peds than the same group in their home countries would be. One might reason that the ease with which one can get into teaching over here makes it easy for a ped to get close to kids. One may counter also that it isn’t convenient to locate and live here and, also, the average FT here isn’t a careerist (as a ped most likely would choose to be), so it may just as easily lead to the incidence of pedophilia among the FT population to be lower than among the teaching population back home. Bottom line: we just don’t know, so I resist the assumptions.