Imagine China discontinues its one child policy. Its current economic strength, combined with tremendous pent-up demand for multiple children (esp boys), causes China’s population to rapidly swell to 4…6…10 billion in the first half of the 21st century. China’s prime directive has always been “to preserve the power of the State at any cost.” This takes on even more urgency as future Chinese leaders seek to control new lands and resources to avoid mass starvation. Hungry citizens tend to get rebellious, therefore, feeding its people is necessary to maintain power of the State. Besides, nationalistic views and a sense of ethnic destiny are already embedded in China’s ruling elite. Meeting the demands of rapid population growth would be simply an excuse for taking over Mongolia, Taiwan, the Philippines, and South East Asia. Japan, The Middle East, Northern Africa and the countries of the former Soviet Union are next.
Meanwhile, numb and nearly broke from the disastrous years of occupation in Iraq and North Korea, Americans have become entrenched isolationists. American foriegn policy has backfired and widespread suicide bombings weaken democratic institutions across Europe and America. Sixteen years of back-to-back Bush/Cheney administrations result in economic chaos, political turmoil and class warfare. Congress is eventually disbanded and martial law declared.
As a result, China’s expansion goes unchallenged. Europe fails to muster a united front due to political infighting and the collapse of international trade. Britain is the only country able to muster a defense, but it is quickly slaughtered. Facing destruction, America agrees to becomes a satellite country of the new China totalitarian state.
As a result of the Patriot Act and similar laws passed early in the 21st century, America finds that its own political structure and underlying philosophy already closely resemble that of Mainland China’s. Little needs to be changed other than tearing up the last remnants of the Bill of Rights and Constitution. The country of New Mei Gwo soon begins to efficiently administer China policy. The word “privacy” loses all meaning and is eliminated from language. Human misery results for the next 1000 years.
If China wants to rule the world, all its leaders have to do is allow ordinary Chinese citizens to have as many children as they want. All the rest will fall into place.
Come now… I’m always for an excuse to slip in an anti-Bush jab, but let’s be fair. Seems to me that the Bush admin has been doing everything it can to keep us OUT of North Korea. If we were there instead of Iraq right now, I’d’ve kept my mouth shut on the anti-war thread. The most points W. ever won with me was when, on his opinion of Kim Il Sung, he said, “I loath the man.”
I think Bush will stay out of North Korea until he secures re-election in 2004. Maybe he is also waiting for the Iraq situation to settle down. If the Iraq occupation was going better and Bush’s numbers were up, I think North Korea would be a target. “Hit them before they hit us” is still current policy in America - that hasn’t changed. Is this a good policy in light of Saddam and Kim Il Sung? I really don’t know. I’m just trying to predict its logical conclusion.
there’s already a science-fiction series on how China becomes the next superpower called “Chungkuo”. You might need to come up with a new idea.
Personally, I think any population explosion would destroy China internally taking the govt with it, before they get a chance to allow emigration or forced expansion. So not going to happen in my opinion.
Incidentally, minorities (non-Han) are not restricted by the one-child policy. It’s an idealistic, and fair law from the better moments of the Chinese Revolution.
This brings to mind a conversation I had with a guy from Sudan while I was in university. He, like some others, believed that American power was fading and that China would be the next superpower. He kept telling me how powerful China was. I asked him to be more specific. He said “they have so many people, they can just overwhelm you Americans.” Warm bodies being the core of China’s arsenal, I asked him how China would bring such great power to bear against the U.S. What are they going to do, bring them thousands of miles across the Pacific on huge landing ships, and then just spill them out upon our shores like a good case of diarrhea? Gee, I’m really scared. I hope our navy can manage to sink a few of those ships before they reach California. Na, screw the Californians.
the american “leadership” class doesn’t care about the country.
the chinese “leadership” class doesn’t care about the country.
both want one thing: power.
power begets money.
both elites are the same: kleptocratic pricks who would sell you down river in a heart beat.
as long as we keep buying into the nationalism thing they are gonna keep shearing us.
(the US occupies NORTH korea? US has been in iraq for years? really?)
Isn’t India’s population supposed to overtake China’s sometime soon? More people would be more of a masive burden to a country than anything else I would have thought.
Anyway, I wonder what would happen if the governments of these two countries decided to club together and redraw some maps in the region. They had joint military exercises recently, didn’t they?
[quote=“Spack”]Isn’t India’s population supposed to overtake China’s sometime soon? More people would be more of a massive burden to a country than anything else I would have thought.
Anyway, I wonder what would happen if the governments of these two countries decided to club together and redraw some maps in the region. They had joint military exercises recently, didn’t they?[/quote]
Yes, but China and India’s thaw is relatively recent. They have a lot more reason to be opposed to each other than to work together in a full-fledged and lasting relationship.
[quote=“Cold Front”][quote=“Spack”]Isn’t India’s population supposed to overtake China’s sometime soon? More people would be more of a massive burden to a country than anything else I would have thought.
Anyway, I wonder what would happen if the governments of these two countries decided to club together and redraw some maps in the region. They had joint military exercises recently, didn’t they?[/quote]
Yes, but China and India’s thaw is relatively recent. They have a lot more reason to be opposed to each other than to work together in a full-fledged and lasting relationship.[/quote]
i am in total agreement with [gasp] CF. these 2 countries/governments also have a history of mistrust, conflict, and disparate visions. their populations combined, if directed in some mass migration, could wreak havoc, but it would never been in a concerted, purposive effort directed by the governments in some nefarious plan to take over the world.
I for one am not worried about China becoming stronger. The more prosperous the Chinese have become, the more sensible and cooperative they have become. Bring it on. To me, China at worst would be like a much more populous France (regarding culture and the “feelings” of its people) or at best a Japan or Germany that was more willing to throw its weight around. I can stomach it.
I can think of a lot worse choices for No. 1. In addition, I really have to say overall that the East Asian nations are pretty good world citizens once they reach a certain stage of development. Look at Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Singapore and to some extent Malaysia and Thailand. The health care is good, the education is good, there is no problem with street crime, there is now more concern for the environment, the arts, culture, quality of life.
Ideally, India will grow right along China and that will sort of result in a distribution of power (avoiding use of balance of power) that will moderate both?
This was essentially the plot of Jean Raspail’s apocalyptic novel “Camp of the Saints” (except with Indians manning the refugee ships instead of Chinese). The French government could either sink the ships, thereby saving their nation at the expense of Western values of humanity and compassion and so on; or let them land, thereby preserving those values for a little while longer. They chose option B. The edition I had printed photographs of Chinese refugee ships on the back cover.
Think of it this way. A small fluctuation in China’s population could completely swamp America’s, if they ever found their way across the ocean. Increasingly, they are doing just that. What will happen if Chinese become a major population group in the U.S.? As a voting bloc, they would probably pressure the government to let in even more…until eventually, we would be in the same position as Malaysia or Tibet now.
Most Chinese entering the US do so in order to get away from China and the society/values there. They integrate, make money and they don’t vote often.
I don’t think they would take over and annex the US for the motherland.
Singapore - an overwhelmingly ethnic Chinese state - is not part of China and they don’t plan to become so as far as I know.
This old anecdote might put in a bit of perspective on things:
During their first summit, Ronald Reagan told Deng Xiaoping that it was a blatant infringement of the human rights of the Chinese not to let them travel freely, so they could see the world and compare it with the condition at home.
That is a good one, but I heard that it was first told to Jimmy Carter by Zhou Enlai. The point however is valid.
So far, China has given little cause for concern. Tibet, Taiwan and the South China Sea are all areas that can be negotiated. China will have to realize that it is not going to get all it wants just like other nations in the past did not. Hell, even America cannot seem to get what it wants and it is supposedly the strongest nation the world has ever seen.
Jebus. I disagree with your analogy especially in the case of Tibet. I seriously don’t see how you could make the comparison unless you were referring to the US in the past when they were opening up the West, the frontierlands and slowly, but inevitably marginalizing, assimilating and destroying the indigenous population.
And I seriously doubt they will become one massive voting bloc that would steamroll everyone. The Chinese diaspora, generally, are not cohesive and do not think alike. Never mind that Taiwanese are suspicious of mainlanders of HK ppl, etc., most Chinese think in a limited social circle… unless other Americans start pushing them together by alienating all chinese-americans. then they would close ranks. call me crazy, but your post is bordering on xenophobia and reminds me of the turn of the century craziness and ‘rationalisations’ about the head tax and the Yellow Peril, etc.
Wasn’t Malaysia also, like Indonesia, one of the southeast asian countries where they had a major backlash against chinese immigrants there? the voting is exactly where they are weakest, and perhaps is one reason why they had no government support/sympathy in those countries.
The Chinese are like Europeans (a whole group of different nations) rather than one cohesive group. Besides, not to stereotype, but most work hard, study hard and make decent citizens (though some are perhaps somewhat circumspect about paying taxes). That said, I know several Chinese friends are very irritated about being labeled the “model minority,” which in their opinion means fewer opportunities to get into top universities since “they don’t really need the help” and fewer scholarships since they “work harder” and have “frugal parents.” The contrast with what other groups get for much more limited input is for all practical purposes racism by another name in their book.
Right now, the group that is flooding the United States with not necessarily desirable results is the Mexicans and by not necessarily desirable I mean uneducated, low skilled. While some are needed, overall the benefit to the nation as a whole comes from the already educated, immediately productive citizens who pay taxes from day one and do not really burden the social-welfare system, by this I include medical and schools. From an economic point of view therefore how could anyone be against more Chinese immigration?
Mexicans
I would assume they are the ones propping up the economy of the US by providing cheap labour in the millions. Otherwise how would a lot of the manual jobs be filled, farming and processing be economic. How could you get a ‘good man to water and cut your lawn’. I know a man not a million mile away from here who used to work illegaly in the US and saw it, if even just a little, from their side of the coin. Since they are undocumented they are not entitled to social welfare payments and only basic health services. Many still pay tax thru bogus social security numbers etc. What do you think would happen to southern california if all the illegals were kicked out.
As for the educated Asians they sure do help the economy of US to prosper in a different way.
My point was to stress that the Chinese were not a problem NOT that the Mexicans were.
Yet, I think that part of the problem is that many of them do get benefits. It is my understanding that public hospitals in many states if not all cannot refuse to treat someone with no insurance etc. As to schools, I would question that assumption too.
Let’s just leave this on a note of the Chinese are not a problem in my book rather than the Mexicans are.
a very complicated issue especially in the border states.
agree with some of HH. all those fruit barons and farming companies in california would collapse if it wasn’t for mexican ‘illegal’ labour. americans are too proud to even attempt what they do. i am all for chavez helping out those workers. ditto in florida. i mean after seeing how cheap fruit can be had in asia, i am hard pressed to believe those fruit companies could not treat these seasonal/migrant laborers better and pay them better.
a good friend of mine turned his life around from being a LA gangster, probably would have died, but then he went to college, supported his family, and became a construction consultant with the big law firm in LA.
Who the hell are you having a hard time agreeing with? Did I say that ALL Mexicans were a problem? Get off the political correct kneejerk reaction and read what I wrote. My point is that as a group the Chinese are not a problem. I am defending the Chinese for their hard work and the high tech skills that I bring America. I was contrasting this with unskilled, uneducated labor and currently now in America this is primarily represented by Mexicans. Did I say that type of labor was not needed? Is it time to get the label pasting comments out of the debate thread and apply them here?
