I woke up this morning and realised I have no friends… don’t pity me please, I am not sad about this just curious how others cope. I also don’t think I am alone, I guess many lifers experience this at some point or in some way, let me explain.
Like many here I have been in Taiwan for a while, read 8+ yrs. During this time many friends have come and gone, back in the day I worked in an office with at least 10 other expats (till it closed). Since that time I have worked with other various companies all of which do not employ other expats (locally). 2 friends from the original company had Taiwanese wives as well, so they were ‘lifers’ too. However over the last year they have sucumb to the pressure and headed back home, the last just recently. I work a full-time job, travel overseas about half my time, am married, with daughter so keep myself busy. In my younger days I used to get out to the bars an awful lot, (still do when i am overseas) but these days less so.
Now when talking about friends I guess I am talking ‘best friends’, you know those that you bother to call, or those you go around each others homes to chew the fat, or grab a beer, or you have (or start) a hobby that you do together, or the ones you feel comfortable enough to share your most intimate thoughts.
I am not talking about: family (I have a loving wife and a great daughter); aquaintances ie: people you know and talk to if you happen to bump into them in the bar or on the street (for years I keep bumping into the same guy in the HK airport, Wanchai and TPE Carnegies), but you don’t go out of your way to contact; best friends back home, they are not here so in this scenario they don’t count; family friends, the husband of your wives friends; colleagues, friendly with the local collegues, go out for a meal once in a while as well as I have a lot of guys from the US coming in town frequently; etc.
Anyway, I am just curious how do others deal with the constant churn of friends while staying here? does it bother you? as you get older does it get harder to meet/make a good friend? do you find being in a foreign country you have a much smaller group of friends than you did back home? do you find yourself being less friendly or open with people because in your mind you know they will not be around for the long-haul? I know… I know… go to a 'mosa HH or other events, I went to one HH about 1yr ago but of late I seem to always be out of town… (just got back last week Friday and leaving again Sunday )
I noticed this today actually. Had some fairly traumatic issues to deal with this week and realised short of a phonecall or two back home there was no one “close enough” (note not distance wise) to talk to about it. Nearly dropped one Forumosan a note to see if he could put me on to a Shrink and then decided I would just MAN UP.
How do others cope? I have been out about 6 years and still have a couple of close friends in HK but after a year in Taipei the closest male relationship I have is with my Chinese teacher.
How much of this are you “blaming” (for want of a better term) on living in Taiwan and how much simply on being married and having a family?
Reason I ask is that I had very similar feelings a year or two back and discussed them with my sisters and brothers-in-law last time I was back in Scotland.
I thought I’d be pretty much on my own in terms of the lack of best friends thing, so I was a bit surprised when they immediately identified with it. Only difference was, they didn’t have the added “expat” lifestyle as a possible explanation and simply realized its part and parcel of having a family.
In fact, despite the fact that I have only two or three “best” friends here, that’s more than any of my brothers-in-law have (my sisters are different, of course, being stinky girlys).
These guys aren’t exactly antisocial – one’s a record producer and a music writer for the BBC – a professional schmoozer, in other words, one’s a world champion kick-boxer, can’t remember what the other ones do.
By the way, I’m really glad the thread has nothing to do with salad-tossing. “Friend-churn” sounded like could have been nasty. Not that there’s anything wrong with that, of course…
I wasn’t married last time I checked. No, checked again definitely not married. Interesting view though that the location may not bethe problem, although I would say during my time in Vietnam and HK I had close friends and yet here and Korea I did not.
I gots loads to say on the subject. And none of it is in a logical order, its all random. Here it goes…
I understand exactly what you have written. I have been in the same boat, and felt the same things. I felt for a long time that I didn’t have any ‘real’ friends in Taiwan. I mean, how could I? A ‘real’ friendship takes 20 years to acquire. All my long term friends in England have known me since I was in nappies, with my ‘peripheral best’ friends being the ones I made at uni. Having only known these peripheral people for 12 years, they are still not in there with the 25+ year friends. Thats how real ‘real’ friendships are now. Last night I had a curry with my ‘real mate’ Rhys, Known him for 29 years, and I’m only 32! So how on earth could I make a ‘real’ friend in Taiwan?
Added to this is the amazingly large number of weirdo beardo’s who make up the ex-pat community. Examples: the guy who invited me out for a few beers and then started screaming at me, the guy who gets so drunk he pisses in your lounge, the scouser at the bar who goes apeshit cos you say ‘Everton’ and he likes Liverpool, the dick who takes 10% of your ‘ahem ahems’ ‘for the trouble’ (dude, thats what the PRICE is for), I could go on…
So I felt what you felt for a long time…
But I was wrong, and so are you. ‘Real’ friendships in Taiwan are there to find, though they will mostly be with Westerners. The thing to see is that these are real friendships in their infancy. It took me until just before I left Taiwan to see that I have real friendships in their infancy. One event was a barbecue I had with some lovely people I met. (One of whom stole my cheese!) Another was a night I got kidnapped by a Muzha hero and had a backgammon feast. A third was one night I just had a few beers and a meal with a friend, as he chatted about his harem, and his boat. The fourth was a filthy night of hedonism in Taichung! That was like a lifetime in one night. And, lucky me, now I’m home again, these people are still bothering with me. I mean, if I’d been funk500 I’d have told me to f£ck off long ago! And even though I won’t see these friends very often, I know that the times I spent with them were honest and enjoyable, and when we meet again, it will be like opening a door to the past. Just like it is when I see real friends in England that I haven’t seen for years. (Friday night me and Dean are gonna get smashed up in Richmond. Haven’t seen him for 2 years!)
So there you have it. Real friendships are there, you probably already have some, you just need to re-analyse your classification system.
(Longest post for years.)
And having just read Radar’s post, the answer to all you other problems is to MAN UP. ( I love that expression, and it’s going straight into my everyday language list!)
The constant turnover used to bother me a lot. I don’t easily trust people and a lot of time I’m just getting to feel comfortable with people when they move on. :s
Being married now I worry about it less, but then I also have less time for socializing and I never was good at that anyway. So, I guess that the net result is about the same.
Tom, I hear what you are saying. If you met those guys like once you wouldn’t be in a place where you could bear your sould to them though, that comes later. Ideally after they have bared their souls first
I am not ‘blaming’ anything specifically, especially living in Taiwan, I enjoy being in this part of the world and wouldn’t trade it for anything. I do think being in a foreign country can make it harder to make ‘best’ friends or at least keeping some, however by the same token it can make it easier to make aquintances because ‘we are all in the same boat’ so share some commonality.
Being married and having a family does have an effect, however again I would not consider giving this up to get some friends in return.
I get the feeling that longtimers almost need to try harder to make a number of ‘best’ friends, because invariably over time people leave. Then you get left with that sudden realization of ‘damn, I don’t have any friends’. As Radar mentioned the sudden realization often comes at a time when you need a good friend to lean on…
I personally have found the longer I stay here the less contact with other foreigners I have, which leads to less opportunites to make new friends. I meet a lot of locals, but culturally often there are differences which seem to make it harder to relate.
[quote=“sandman”]Reason I ask is that I had very similar feelings a year or two back and discussed them with my sisters and brothers-in-law last time I was back in Scotland.
I thought I’d be pretty much on my own in terms of the lack of best friends thing, so I was a bit surprised when they immediately identified with it.[/quote]
I agree with you that it is all too common, or more common than one might think. Especially when you get to the stage in your life when you have your own family and less time to socialize unless with other families.
I am really just interested in finding out do others feel this way, and what things people have tried, or do they even?
Sadly at this point I don’t have any friends, let alone enough to make a salad with
I think some of that could be put down to the bar scene here or difference… When I was single and living in HK I too had a lot more close friends, when I was single and living in TW I had less close friends discounting the guys in the office, although I still went to the bar as much.
I put it down to the HK bars being busier, in closer proximity, more of a British feel to them and a whole lot more brits. Although maybe it was just that I was younger
In TPE the only place feasible to pull off a pub crawl is the combat zone, but you and the crew you are with would be the only punters… You can go to busier places in TPE but they are not in close proximity to others.
[quote=“redwagon”]The constant turnover used to bother me a lot. I don’t easily trust people and a lot of time I’m just getting to feel comfortable with people when they move on.
Being married now I worry about it less, but then I also have less time for socializing and I never was good at that anyway.[/quote]
I identify with that, although the ‘churn’ has never really bothered me so much.
See this is why we need a Mens forum so we can talk about less than manly things behind closed doors.
Sit down. Put your head between your knees. Breathe deeply and regularly. This will help you not to spew.
I’ve tried … Forumosa. And you know what? It worked! I have made several good friends through Forumosa – some are even ENGLISH!!! – one or two of whom are well on the way to becoming close friends. In time, who knows, some of them might even become best friends – well except for the English ones, of course. A man must maintain SOME standards, after all.
Breathing into a brown paper bag for a few minutes can also help with that, Connell. Just don’t get any on my shoes please.
I buried my nose in my Chinese books, for starters.
Sometimes.
Sure. It was a lot easier to make friends in high school and college.
Yup.
I did for many years, because I didn’t want to speak English, and because I knew they’d end up leaving anyway. Then, a bit less than 2 years ago, I decided that I’d be better off socializing more, so I started posting on 'mosa more, and coming to HH and making friends. I met my GF on 'mosa too, and I’m much happier now. People need some social contact, after all.
I know that many of my 'mosa friends will leave Taiwan one by one, but some are lifers, and there will always be new friends coming along too.
Connel, I was where you are two years back. I have made more friends, and not just “drinking buddies” since I started hanging out with people from thsi forum.
[quote=“sandman”]Sit down. Put your head between your knees. Breathe deeply and regularly. This will help you not to spew.
Breathing into a brown paper bag for a few minutes can also help with that, Connell. Just don’t get any on my shoes please.[/quote]
Ahh, see thats where I have been making mistakes, I’ve been trying to buy friends with gifts, money and other luxury items.
Now I get it, I need to relax and spew more, ideally in conjunction with drinking copious amounts of alcohol. I will then get the sympathy vote from the girls and the guys will think I am a twat and be-friend me waiting all the while to see me make an arse of myself all for a good laff. BTW: when is the next HH
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