How do people become Taiwan (culture) sympathizers?

Taiwan Living in Taiwan
1

Original Title: how do people become taiwan sympathizers?

everybody has a right to be who they wanna be, but i just wonder: how does a man get to the place where he becomes a flaming taiwan sympathizer? what possesses someone to empathize with local cultural deficits to the point where it’s beyond reason? is it something your girlfirend does to you that makes you lose your bearings? is there some benefit to gain here that’s worth all the totally liberal empathy for the problem causing entities here? is someone paying these people to be taiwan sympathizers? it’s a phenomenon i just don’t get.

i don’t hate taiwan. all in all it’s a good place. but its bad side is enough sometimes to make you want to hate it. i can empathize with the other extreme- the taiwan haters, but i don’t approve of it because it’s not healthy, and not balanced. same with taiwan sympathizers.

comments anyone? this is a serious discussion. i really want to understand.

2

Well I am not really in on this matter because I am still outside of Taiwan, but I can see similarities with the US. THere are people who believe this country is the ultimate in freedom and can do no wrong, even if we have a bad president they think we can bounce back and become some sort of magic world protector. Then there are people who hate the governement and all the people who live here, and this includes US citizens, not just the outsiders hating the US.

There are always two sides to the story. When you say ‘taiwan sympathizer’ are you talking about anti-china, or just taiwanese pride or something? I mean theres a lot of things I like about Taiwan more than the US, so I can see why people like it. But on the other hand I also enjoy being a US citizen with certain freedoms.

I am not really trying to answer your question, but I feel like I can always see both sides. If you tell me you hate the congestion of taiwan I will tell you I love it. Where I live in the US you can never meet people and walking outside is just boring. In taiwan its totally different. I hate driving 15 mins to get groceries, or just buy milk, but in taiwan the 7-11 is 5 feet away. I mean, its all depending on your style. In the end I’d say if you don’t like a place then move - that will solve the problem int he short term for yourself.

3

what i mean is the mush brain characteristics of taiwan. the group think. the zero sum thinking -can’t go traveling by myself because i’ll be lonely-( this i just don’t get. i always make friends everywhere i go). the violence here. the totally underhanded way a LOT of local business people do ( it IS culturally acceptable to lie and cheat here). it is not so in the States.

i lived in the states for 31 years. i know what the US is like. i can’t agree with TWSs that it’s the same everywhere.

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[quote=“theposter”]what i mean is the mush brain characteristics of Taiwan. the group think. the zero sum thinking -can’t go traveling by myself because i’ll be lonely-( this i just don’t get. i always make friends everywhere i go). the violence here. the totally underhanded way a LOT of local business people do ( it IS culturally acceptable to lie and cheat here). it is not so in the States.

i lived in the states for 31 years. i know what the US is like. i can’t agree with TWSs that it’s the same everywhere.[/quote]

Well, i can see that. One thing to remember though is that Taiwan is really dense. In America you might not see as much of this going on because its spread out. Even in NYC there isnt as much activity. I live in Baltimore, a city that the highest violent crime rate in the US. I never see anyone being killed or mugged or beaten, thats because everyone is spread out and the bad neighborhoods are pretty obvious. In taiwan everyone is thrown in together and you’re gonna see more of these bad things in your everyday life, doesnt exactly mean its happening more, its just more blatant. Then again this is sort of speculation.

A lot of the other differences are just part of culture. In the states we all take care of ourselves personally, we have personal freedom to do what we want but this can also result in a lot of problems. freedom has a good and bad side. Whats good for you might not be good for the country. It seems in most asian countries this is flipped. You do whats best for the group, the country, the family. Maybe you dont go out on ur own because you want to help your family or you depend on them. In a lot of cases this type of thinking avoids those problems that freedom can cause. I really don’t see how someone can say that one is BETTER than the other, its just different.

5

Two minor counterpoints.

I know plenty of people here in Canada and the US that do not prefer to travel by themselves. You may like to do it and you may be an extrovert, but not everyone is like you.

The violent crime rate in Taiwan is lower than the US by a wide margin and this includes murders, rapes, assaults, theft and burglary. Personal experience is good indicator of the level of violence of your neighbourhood(s), but not of an entire country.

Business ethics in the greater China region really is pretty iffy overall. The best, IMO, is Hong Kong. The worst, by far, is mainland China. Somewhere in the middle is Taiwan.

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[quote=“sjcma”]I know plenty of people here in Canada and the US that do not prefer to travel by themselves.

The violent crime rate in Taiwan is lower than the US by a wide margin and this includes murders, rapes, assaults, theft and burglary.
[/quote]

Yeah, I think your average American considers “travelling”, to be getting on a cruise ship down to Mexico for a weekend…or crossing the border into Canada to drink some Moosehead.
And the mush brain characteristics of all the sports fanatics gets pretty boring; especially when all your 45 year old friends just sit around talking about the glory days of high school football :wanker:
Crime? well now finally someone in Wisconsin is suggesting arming school teachers to protect their students. I guess metal detectors and sniffer dogs at school gates aren’t enough :bravo: . I say go balls out and post National Guard troops outside every classroom and school :smiley: .

7

I am starting to understand how people get to the point of bitter where they think everyone else agrees.
It is because they keep saying things over and over and people finally realize that trying to reason with them is completely futile.
Gradually less and less people argue and the inflicted person starts to think that most people agree and thus those who don’t agree are the minority and thus wrong.
Am I getting this right?

8

Honestly, that says it all. You’re a grown man, poster. It shouldn’t be that hard to understand why people do things differenly from you and to accept this without gettign bent out of shape.

9

Well…this is taking the usual turn…so let me post something and be on my merry Holiday way.

theposter -
IMO, one maintains their perspective by having their own set of standards and values. They have made their own personal decision of what is right and what is wrong. It is also imperative to understand that these are your own personal standards - no one else’s.
If you are cheated, treated unfairly or simply fucked over - take your solace in knowing that you would not do such an act to another.
Don’t expect the world, or Taiwan, to conform to your standards. It won’t. The world and most people in it will fuck you over in a New Yawk minute - you know that.
But do what you have to do to keep your own head, and house, in order.

I think you know all this happy crap already - Just tryin’ to help a brother maintain in the wilderness.

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[quote=“Hongda”]Yeah, I think your average American considers “travelling”, to be getting on a cruise ship down to Mexico for a weekend…or crossing the border into Canada to drink some Moosehead.
And the mush brain characteristics of all the sports fanatics gets pretty boring; especially when all your 45 year old friends just sit around talking about the glory days of high school football :wanker:
Crime? well now finally someone in Wisconsin is suggesting arming school teachers to protect their students. I guess metal detectors and sniffer dogs at school gates aren’t enough :bravo: . I say go balls out and post National Guard troops outside every classroom and school :smiley: .[/quote]

What was the name of that film with Arnold Swarchzenegger who goes undercover to sort out some kids who were giving his teacher wife grief? He totally busted all their asses. Awesome.

11

thank you for all of your comments. i even heard some foriegners who will fight other foriegners for taiwan’s honor. i can’t think of too many reasons i would do that, but there might be a couple. but die for taiwan? no fucking way. AIT makes the call i’m outta here.

i guess my real question is: why are some foriegners so damned undependable? seems everyone is out for his own self. and that’s why taiwan has so much power over us. if we’d get together, make our own crew, or at least a union, things could change.

i somtimes believe these TW sympathisizing foreigners work for… well you’ve all hear my conspiracy theories before. i won’t bore you with them. but i wish we could all get together. i wish we could depend on one another to rally and make a difference in all of our lives here.

just think: eliminating the terms “lao wai, and big nose” from TV shows. it could happen. NOBODY says “san di ren” anymore, so we could get the same results with “Taiwan gou ji ren shr” (TW international person). what do you think? make some T shirts?

12

[quote=“SuchAFob”]I am starting to understand how people get to the point of bitter where they think everyone else agrees.
It is because they keep saying things over and over and people finally realize that trying to reason with them is completely futile.
Gradually less and less people argue and the inflicted person starts to think that most people agree and thus those who don’t agree are the minority and thus wrong.
Am I getting this right?[/quote]

You just keep telling yourself that! I won’t argue…

13

[quote=“theposter”]thank you for all of your comments. i even heard some foriegners who will fight other foriegners for Taiwan’s honor. i can’t think of too many reasons i would do that, but there might be a couple. but die for taiwan? no fucking way. AIT makes the call i’m outta here.

i guess my real question is: why are some foriegners so damned undependable? seems everyone is out for his own self. and that’s why taiwan has so much power over us. if we’d get together, make our own crew, or at least a union, things could change.

i somtimes believe these TW sympathisizing foreigners work for… well you’ve all hear my conspiracy theories before. i won’t bore you with them. but i wish we could all get together. i wish we could depend on one another to rally and make a difference in all of our lives here.

just think: eliminating the terms “lao wai, and big nose” from TV shows. it could happen. NOBODY says “san di ren” anymore, so we could get the same results with “Taiwan gou ji ren shr” (TW international person). what do you think? make some T shirts?[/quote]

You know what?

I reckon there are 10 nay 50 times as many Taiwanese in Australia as there are Australian’s in Taiwan (probably the same kind of ratio’s for Canada, US and UK). Those Taiwanese coming to our country are just as brave and open minded as any of us coming here.

I reckon things back in Aus are probably way harder for them than things are for us over here. Higher crime, people drive with rules, everyone completely expects you to speak the local tongue, girls won’t even look at u (geez they don’t pay much attention to me back home) and people are rude compared to Taiwan.

You go black in 5 minutes (red for me), u pretty much need a car, harder to get a job and higher living costs. No shabu shabu (no problem for me, but the Taiwanese miss it) and everything god damn shuts at 5pm.

Impossible to get a taxi, no night market, and NO BEER IN 7-11!

Sure, we all whine about Taiwan sometimes and some of their stone-age ways, but for a monoculture, Taiwanese are fairly welcoming…

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even so, there’s stuff that needs to be addressed. racial defamation is one of those. it’s time for ICRT, AIT, canada, and the rest to stand up and say “hey, no more”. what i can’t stand is foriegners who actually like being called big nose. actually like being yelled at on the street and called that on TV. there’s no place for racial slurs in broadcasting.

15

[quote=“theposter”]everybody has a right to be who they wanna be, but i just wonder: how does a man get to the place where he becomes a flaming taiwan sympathizer? what possesses someone to empathize with local cultural deficits to the point where it’s beyond reason? is it something your girlfirend does to you that makes you lose your bearings? is there some benefit to gain here that’s worth all the totally liberal empathy for the problem causing entities here? is someone paying these people to be taiwan sympathizers? it’s a phenomenon i just don’t get.

i don’t hate taiwan. all in all it’s a good place. but its bad side is enough sometimes to make you want to hate it. i can empathize with the other extreme- the taiwan haters, but i don’t approve of it because it’s not healthy, and not balanced. same with taiwan sympathizers.

comments anyone? this is a serious discussion. i really want to understand.[/quote]

your questions are beyond reason. what does it mean? who could understand much less admit to empathasizing with the local culture beyond reason? just what are you actually trying to say? it doesn’t make any sense. just stop.

16

“lao wai” isn’t an insult. But I agree with you with “adogah” (big nose).

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“lao wai” isn’t an insult. But I agree with you with “adogah” (big nose).[/quote]

Once again I gotta say, I used to get called ‘cracker’ ‘whiteboy’ and ‘nerd’ constantly when I was a kid growing up in my 80% black neighborhood between DC and Baltimore. At first its insulting but then you realise half of them are just saying it out of habit or as a joke, and the rest are jerks you dont wanna be friends with anyway, so why listen? People will always say racist stuff, if fact I wish we were all aloud to be more openly racist because its even more insulting when people try to tip-toe around stuff.

I mean I am not racist in the least, but I use slurs for everyone because I hear it so much! My favorite is to call someone a slur of the wrong race, they always get confused.

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“lao wai” isn’t an insult. But I agree with you with “adogah” (big nose).[/quote]

why is it that being from a foreign country is not insulting, but having a big nose is?

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“lao wai” isn’t an insult. But I agree with you with “adogah” (big nose).[/quote]

why is it that being from a foreign country is not insulting, but having a big nose is?[/quote]

One is a matter of geography, one is a matter of biology?

20

[quote=“Ian_Alexander”]Once again I gotta say, I used to get called ‘nigger’ ‘spear-chucker’ and ‘coon’ constantly when I was a kid growing up in my 80% white neighborhood between DC and Baltimore. At first its insulting but then you realise half of them are just saying it out of habit or as a joke, and the rest are jerks you dont wanna be friends with anyway, so why listen? People will always say racist stuff, if fact I wish we were all aloud to be more openly racist because its even more insulting when people try to tip-toe around stuff.

I mean I am not racist in the least, but I use slurs for everyone because I hear it so much! My favorite is to call someone a slur of the wrong race, they always get confused.[/quote]

Not so funny when you switch it around, huh? Get my point? Did you walk around DC/Baltimore mocking black people all the time? Somehow I doubt you had the guts to do it. I don’t blame you. You’d get your white ass kicked if you dared talk that way within earshot of black people.

In an 80% white neighborhood, an average black person would not dare respond that way, either. If I were black, and walking downtown Louisville, Kentucky, 100% white, how would I respond to racist insults? With a clenched mouth. When you are outnumbered, you are outnumbered. The only reason you didn’t react to those insults at you, solely for being white, was because you were only 20% and totally outnumbered. Hey, I’ve been there, too - the only white guy in the room. I still wouldn’t take that kind of crap, no matter how outnumbered I was - there’s such a thing as personal dignity. And people respect that. Doesn’t matter if you’re the only white or black guy in the room, if you’re in a room full of racists, and you still stand up for what you are, half the guys in that room are going to step back and respect you for what you are. I know that from experience. Nobody respects cowards. Be cool, be an average guy, don’t throw shit in people’s faces, and 9 times out 10, you’re going to be OK.