How do you buy stocks?

Oh, sorry, I forgot to mention that Sister-In-Law #2 has a vending spot at various markets around town selling underwear and stuff, and a couple of times a year she’ll throw some decent dress ones my way, for the once or twice a month that I need to wear a suit and stuff.
I think they’re her top-of-the-line ones, they’re pretty good.

That sounds pretty good. A lot of people are complaining that there seems to be something of a shortage. Some seem willing even to consider an older model, though honestly, I don’t advise it. Older models of course tend to have weak hydraulics and a bit of an odour.

Anyway, I found this…

online.wsj.com/quotes/main.html? … albox.y=11

and would like to suggest a bit of a wager. My prediction is that GM/FORD/CHRYSLER are going to get their bailout (at least 25 billion) on the condition that they trim a bit o fat (always a bonus to the stock prices one would imagine) and given the low price on oil that we are seeing that is going to result in higher stock prices on those shares, despite lower consumer confidence. It won’t be a sustained gain but there will be a big blip in there. I don’t want to bet any actual “thing” of course because I don’t have any actual “things” to bet, having lost my fortune in the DVD market etc.

Sorry, this confuses me a bit. If you make a buy or sell order at nine in the morning say, and during the day the price changes, what price did you buy or sell at?

Sorry, this confuses me a bit. If you make a buy or sell order at nine in the morning say, and during the day the price changes, what price did you buy or sell at?[/quote]

I’m not sure that’s true about the order being placed at the end of hte trading day. I’m not saying it’s wrong, but I can’t imagine why it would be true. What do the traders do: sit around all day drinking coffee, then suddenly at the end of the day place a thousand orders to buy and sell? Don’t they place orders all day?

It is true, though, that daytime in Taiwan basically equals nighttime in the US, so if you place your order here during the day, while they are sleeping, they won’t process it until they wake up and go to work. But that’s a little obvious.

As for your question, bob: one can place a “market order” in which they buy or sell the shares at whatever the going market price is, or a “limit order” in which you won’t buy for more than whatever price you specify or won’t sell for less than whatever price you specify. Your online brokerage account should have “help” info explaining how to do those.

I used to place “limit orders” all the time, figuring exactly what price I wanted to buy or sell at, but more recently I’ve read from experts who say screw that, if you’re certain enough that you want to get in or out, just do it at “market price,” becuase the potential penny or two difference in price is trivial, especially compared to the lost opportunity if it doesn’t quite sink to the buying price you had hoped for so you don’t make the purchase and it then skyrockets up (or it doesn’t quite climb to the selling price you had hoped for so you don’t make the sale and it then plummets down), in either case with you sitting stupidly on the sidelines, having missed your chance.

I’ve never been particularly disappointed with a “market price” I’ve paid. I may be disappointed with what the stock is doing, but I don’t feel the broker got me a lousy price.

Thanks. I think I got the gist of that. Thing is it can make a big difference. Check this…

finance.google.com/finance?q=NYSE%3AGM

It looks as though the price jumped about 400% in a few hours.

I’m curious MT, are you going to buy in anticipation of a bump when they announce the bailout (Dec 10th I think it is going to happen).

If no, why not?

[quote=“bob”]I’m curious MT, are you going to buy in anticipation of a bump when they announce the bailout (Dec 10th I think it is going to happen).

If no, why not?[/quote]

No way. Pain, pain, pain. A man can only take so much.

The smartest thing I did in the market in recent years was to sell two index funds about Jan 2008 (I had already lost some money on them, but they lost a lot more since then) and put all of the proceeds into SRS (an inverse real estate fund that did very well since then). And, a couple of weeks ago I threw some spare cash into EEV (an inverse emerging markets fund) and DXD (an inverse DJIA fund), which have both gained a fair amount since then and should continue to do well in coming months, notwithstanding crazy day-to-day volatility.

But those comprise only a portion of my portfolio (I’m not rich; I just put a few thousand here, a few thousand there). I’m also holding shares of several regular companies (GRM, COH, KOF, etc) which have been hammered severely in the past year, so the value of my portfolio has shrunken considerably and I’ll be damned if I’m ready to take another gamble at this point. Certainly I couldn’t tell my wife if I did.

In any event, is it a good gamble to bet on the Big 2 (not 3, since Chrysler’s privately held) if the govt offers a bailout package? I don’t know. I’m not so sure it would be. Everyone else knows the news at least as early as you do, and many of them know considerably before you do. So the market has presumably already taken the news into account and the price has adjusted accordingly. It seems just a little too simplistic to jump in with the incoming tide, along with a million other people. It may work – and good luck to you – but I just don’t want to get swept away with the undertow, again.

Sorry, this confuses me a bit. If you make a buy or sell order at nine in the morning say, and during the day the price changes, what price did you buy or sell at?[/quote]

I’m not sure that’s true about the order being placed at the end of hte trading day. I’m not saying it’s wrong, but I can’t imagine why it would be true. What do the traders do: sit around all day drinking coffee, then suddenly at the end of the day place a thousand orders to buy and sell? Don’t they place orders all day?

[/quote]
What Dragonbones is likely talking about is the purchase of mutual fund shares. By SEC regulations, mutual fund shares must trade at the price determined by net asset value (NAV) of all underlying shares at the end of the day. Even with fancy computers, it is still pretty much impossible to fairly determine NAV while the market is running. If you want to buy a product that has the same diversified holdings as a mutual fund, but be able to trade it with an eye on benefiting from price fluctuations during the day, then you should buy exchange traded funds (ETFs).

Citigroup just got their bailout and stock prices jumped 59% in one day.

finance.google.com/finance?q=C

Not a bad pay day.

General Motors is up 17% since yesterday.

finance.google.com/finance?q=GM

My wife checked around trying to figure out how to set up a brokerage account in the US. Would take about two months according to her. The brokergae houses that I checked for in Canada would only allow “residents” of Canada. Finally I just went into the bank (Fubon) here, told them what I wanted to do, and they said that my wife could open an account and start buying and selling stocks in the US within about three days. Will be able to do real time exchange traded funds online. Seemed simple as hell. Then again maybe we weren’t actually understanding each other and I won’t know “how” we weren’t understanding each other till I actually try to do it.

[quote=“bob”]Citigroup just got their bailout and stock prices jumped 59% in one day.

finance.google.com/finance?q=C

Not a bad pay day.[/quote]

yea, I saw that this morning and I thought of you.

I’m far from an expert on the stock market. Still learning from mistake after mistake after mistake.

You may be right that one could make a quick buck off of GM. Probably one would only want to hold the stock for a week or two at most (maybe just a few days), try to gain 15 - 50% or whatever, then get the hell out quick. At least that’s what I’d probably shoot for, something like that, if I were gonna try it.

Keep in mind that the market’s the most volatile it has ever been in its entire history (I’m pretty sure that’s correct) and stocks will leap up 10% one day (or 59% in some lucky cases), but will then plunged down the same amount the next day, which is why I suggest you don’t get greedy – don’t wait too long, hoping it will go up a little more – and if you make a respectable gain just get out and be thankful.

Good luck.

PS: maybe I’ll start researching and thinking about your idea but so far, as I said, there’s been just too much pain and volatility and I’m not ready for one more big gamble. . . yet.

Citigroup just got their bailout and stock prices jumped 59% in one day.

finance.google.com/finance?q=C

Not a bad pay day.[/quote]

Didn’t it drop in half or something the day before? You can certainly make big money as well as big losses on risky bets. If you are a gambler perhaps these bets are a bit better than 50:50 but I’d guess you’d have to have money to play with.

is this the time to buy stock? this chart says no, to me:

[quote=“Mother Theresa”][quote=“bob”]Citigroup just got their bailout and stock prices jumped 59% in one day.

finance.google.com/finance?q=C

Not a bad pay day.[/quote]

yea, I saw that this morning and I thought of you.

I’m far from an expert on the stock market. Still learning from mistake after mistake after mistake.

You may be right that one could make a quick buck off of GM. Probably one would only want to hold the stock for a week or two at most (maybe just a few days), try to gain 15 - 50% or whatever, then get the hell out quick. At least that’s what I’d probably shoot for, something like that, if I were gonna try it.

Keep in mind that the market’s the most volatile it has ever been in its entire history (I’m pretty sure that’s correct) and stocks will leap up 10% one day (or 59% in some lucky cases), but will then plunged down the same amount the next day, which is why I suggest you don’t get greedy – don’t wait too long, hoping it will go up a little more – and if you make a respectable gain just get out and be thankful.

Good luck.

PS: maybe I’ll start researching and thinking about your idea but so far, as I said, there’s been just too much pain and volatility and I’m not ready for one more big gamble. . . yet.[/quote]

Once burnt twice shy. That is certainly easy to understand. I haven’t been burnt “yet” though and to me so all I see is the potential. GM can’t fail or the impact will be too heavy on the american economy. The executives and the unions understand that and so will try to hang on to what they have. They could make token concessions and get the bailout and there would be a short term rise in stock values. Or, maybe, just maybe, the unions and the executives will make real concessions and will come back with a workable business plan in which case stock values will show a more sustained gain, particularly if GM commits to manufacturing more economy cars. All of this takes place within the larger economy of course. Stimulus packages are forthcoming. Bush is already throwing around another 800 billion to back bad loans. And Obama will hit the ground running. Everybody seems to agree he put together a good finacial team. Maybe he will tax back some of the obscene profits dished out to the mega rich under bush. I’m guessing GM is still a good bet and whether or not to stay in will depend on how much GM adjusts their business plan, as well as what happens in the larger economy. I would not try to predict that now. If it the car companies make a token adjustment I’ll take the whatever the short term gain is, if the adjustments are more substantial I’ll stick in there, particularly if the economy shows signs of improvement.

Anyway, that is my half baked analysis. I got a funny feeling it’s a money maker and will sure be curious to see what happens, regardless of whether or not we actually manage to set up a brokerage account in time or not. In fact I think that doing quick trades in a rising market (it could hardly fall much further) should be a lot of fun and an interesting way to make money.

Alternative energy is where it will be at for the long term. The only question is which company. Would be nice to know which one, even if does turn out to be Shell or BP.

online.wsj.com/public/quotes/mai … ralbox.y=8

Lost today, or won, depending on how you look at it.

Up “thirty” percent to 4.60.

online.wsj.com/public/quotes/mai … ralbox.y=8

[quote=“bob”]Up “thirty” percent to 4.60.

online.wsj.com/public/quotes/mai … ralbox.y=8[/quote]

According to google finance it’s up 35% for 1 day and 59.8% for 5 days.
finance.google.com/finance?q=NYSE:GM

So, you DID call that one.

I guess you shouldn’t have listened to me, shouldn’t have dawdled, should’ve gone with your initial gut instinct.

Any investor has experienced that a million times. “DAMN! I was going to buy it, I should’ve bought it, I could’ve doubled my money.”

But it may be too late now. Maybe it’s now too pricey. Maybe now it will drop back down.

Or maybe not. Maybe if you buy today it will still shoot up another 100% in the next week or two. Maybe you can still do it.

Or maybe not. No one knows. It’s a gamble. Could’ve and should’ve count for nothing.

Either you put your money in, make a good profit and get to boast to us about how you NAILED that one. Or you put it in, the stock drops, you feel like shit and slink quietly away. (Or you sit on the sidelines and talk abstract theory.)

That’s how it works. No offense to you at all, but you win some you lose some. Hard to predict in advance what will happen.

Anyway, it’s far better to regret the gain you didn’t make than the loss you did.

Chiayo. Good luck whatever you decide to do. :discodance:

As it turned out I farted around trying to figure out how to get set up with the discount brokers in the states and Canada and because I am not a resident of Canada or a citizen of the states it was all going to take forever or couldn’t be done yadda yadda. In fact all I had to do was go to a local brokerage house and set it up under my wife’s name. It is US40 per trade but I could have done it within two days. That would have been about a week ago. I would have bought GM and I would have made money. Woulda coulda shoulda. I am going to set up a brokerage account anyway and look for the next company that is low and in line for a bailout, or even that looks set to be awarded contracts through the stimulus package. They won’t be as easy to find as GM was but they are out there. I might even still buy GM.
Anyway, thank you MT. I have been raeding your take on things for a long time, and as corny as this might sound, you are an inspiration to me.

Thanks bob. You’re far too kind. I’m completely honest when I say I’m definitely not an expert (the forumosan whose opinion I value the most on the stock market is maposquid) and I make lots and lots of mistakes. But I’ve been making mistakes in the stock market for almost 20 years now, so I’m slowing learning from them.

For example, I’ve learned that some of the biggest mistakes investors make are:

  • Buying based on a hot tip they read or heard somewhere (including from someone who appears to be very knowlegeable about investing). Hot tips are usually wrong. They are usually too late. By the time it has gotten to you everyone else has heard it and considered it and the value of the stock has adjusted accordingly.

  • Buying something they don’t understand. I admit I’ve done it: invested in things I really didn’t understand at all. How stupid. Know what the company is and does. Know what their products are and how they earn money. Know what it is you are buying.

  • Buying something without doing sufficient research. Research the company. Research its competitors. Research its industry. Research the economy and stock markets as a whole. Consider global trends and major events likely to have an impact on it. Get to the point that you feel confident this is a good pick, you can explain why, and you can explain why it’s better than its competitors in the industry. Read motley fool, wall street journal, market watch, NY Times, etc. (all available online); use iGoogle as your computer homepage and you can put all of those there on your homepage along with Google Finance, which is good for tracking the market and your stocks daily; and read investing books, but never believe anyone – it’s all just opinions, you need to consider everything then make your own judgment.

  • Getting greedy. Set a reasonable target and when you achieve it sell quickly. A stock will sometimes spike up sharply and you can profit off it nicely, but if you hold on too long it’ll plummet back down and you missed your chance.

And recently I’ve learned that it doesn’t matter how much research you do and how carefully you pick a company that you are certain is damned good and cheap (that’s another lesson; never pay too much) and has a strong competitive edge over its competitors, it makes no difference if hte whole market is sinking. I made that mistake buying GRMN and COH. I’m confident they’re good companies and the prices seemed good, but I shouldn’t have bought knowing that the future looks grim for the foreseeable future. Should’ve waited and could’ve bought them cheaper. So now I’ll hold onto them and wait and I’m confident they’ll do fine, but why suffer through the downturn?

That’s another lesson: never feel you need to rush to make an investment. There will be trillions of opportunities for you to invest. Nothing is so special you MUST rush to buy immediately without doing your homework, your research and carefully considering whether you really want to do it. If you invest in X your money is tied up and you can’t invest in Y. Tomorrow Y will come along.

Oh, one last lesson – from Warren Buffett: Rule number 1 is “never lose money.” Rule number 2 is “never forget rule number 1.” It may sound corny, and it’s admittedly impossible to observe, but it’s a good point. A few sizeable losses will knock the hell out of your performance and make it very difficult to bring it back up to positive figures. Good to be careful, play it very safe and try like hell to avoid any loss. Then when you make profits the overall performance of your portfolio will be significantly greater.

Anyway, that’s all basic stuff. Good luck to you and remember, never trust anyone (including, or especially, me), do your homework and make your own judgments.

Holy Christ MT you make this sound like work! You should understand that I am a very lazy person. My plan is to look for stocks (in major companies) that have fallen a lot recently and that should respond positively to the stimulus. It should be easy enough to do if most everything is headed up, which it should be for awhile given that everything is so low, and there will be an extra trillion floating around. If the economy looks set to recover significantly I’ll hang in and if it doesn’t I’ll get out.

Then again I’ll definitely start looking at those publications you mentioned too.

The practical thing right now is that if I set up an account in Taiwan they charge a larger service fee and a tax on everything, including on the original investment if you can believe that. One place it seemed it was 1.5% and the other I don’t know. I’m trying to learn how to talk about this stuff in Chinese but actually it’s quite a struggle, and their English isn’t that great either. My wife is going to talk to them tomorrow so I’ll be able to come back with a report on that situation tomorrow night, if anybody is interested. We might set up two accounts, one at etrade or zecco and another with a local brokerage house.

At one online brokerage house (which I can’t register an account with because I am not residing in Canada) they had a demo deal and it looked easy enough to make money. Stocks go up, they go down. If you buy them when you see them fall and sell them when they are higher you’ll make money. When there is a lot of volitility you can do that without staring at the computer for five years, particularly if, as I mentioned before, the trend is up which I think it is.

Getting rid of dumbo there and putting Obama in his place will be, to the market, like a fresh tropical breeze, upon which I plan to sail up and away…

He recommended this.

finance.google.com/finance?q=NYSE%3APPC

Actually that was the discussion that got me interested in this whole idea. Here it is…

viewtopic.php?f=88&t=74356