A bit silly of you to jump into the negative box I painted of people who use such talk. To be frank, your comments show a poor attitude. Not very willing to honestly evaluate something that is emotionally unpleasant, are we? Anyone with integrity can see that you are the unfair labeler, not me.
Either you don’t understand what I wrote or just don’t care. I tend to think the latter. I see from some other postings that you were born in Taiwan…an ethnic Chinese? Maybe I offended you by my comments. I regret if I did so, but your follow-up remarks show more emotion and no logic or clarity of thought, to be honest. I won’t comment further on your emotional reactions.
But still excited to read comments from other fine forum readers! Please…needing some fresh air here…
and yet you keep avoiding the issue. your statement was stereotypical according to your own definition. i’m not personally offended, but my emotional state does not change the fact that even in your reply to this topic you’ve resorted to stereotyping chinese people. hence my point that discussions of this type don’t go anywhere because of all the stereotyping that goes on.
Read the definition of stereotyping again and my comments. It is impossible for you to say I stereotyped. A comment that you personally regard to be unpleasant does not qualify it as a stereotype. My friend, it is YOUR thinking that is limiting the discussion, I regret to say.
Please…someone besides me and Flipper comment. I am not going to write any more on this topic. It is pointless to continue discussing whether someone should be allowed to express their views or not.
Moderator, where are you? Do you encourage view suppression?
I would like to read some more views on this interesting topic. Forsythe is gone.
Some of you have posted some border line comments that I’m itching to edit. Now let’s all be nice to each other please I don’t like the personal attacks I can see forming in here, don’t make me have to wip out the 'ol editing tools.
Sorry Jeff, you’ll have to be a bit more specific. Who is your post directed at? And why? I see nothing in any of these post thats relevant to the link you posted. What’s your take?
stereotyping - good definition - and not applicable to this discussion - generalising yeah - this place is full of surprises - phone a government office - chance of misinformation is greater than 50% - so why bother
quote:Originally posted by sandman:
Sorry Jeff, you'll have to be a bit more specific. Who is your post directed at? And why? I see nothing in any of these post thats relevant to the link you posted. What's your take?
Ditto.
But please feel free to delete this post, as it’s clearly off topic.
Well I was half kidding and half serious. I put that link there to just remind everyone, it was not pointed directly at anyone. I don’t like to have to interfer too much with the conversations but as a moderator sometimes I should say something. In regards to what you see wrong and what I see wrong are naturally different. I wasn’t scolding anyone, just getting your attention. I got a sense some personal attacks were about to start. So… I hope this answers your questions, if you anything else you want to discuss with me feel free to email me.
Oh by the way sandman, if you haven’t checked your email please do so, as I have warned you earlier about your language.
Ooooh Sandman, what have you been up to. Actually think Sandman is one of the more informative and useful posters on here. I find the tone of the moderators on here, like Jeffs post above, but be very condescending and reactionary at times. On other sites good moderators tend to post very impersonal, or automated responses, which don’t generate anger or frustration, maybe some of the moderators on here should take note. Jeff, your comments are almost like those to a child who has misbehaved, I’m sure your not perfect yourself, so don’t expect everyone else to be. Posters and readers on here are not children, for the most part are professionals, so maybe you should clean up your own act and cop on a little before berating others. A little bad language isn’t the end of the world, if someone is so Puritan that they’re highly offended, maybe they should stick to the bible websites.
If you want to discuss this matter further please email me directly at jeff@oriented.org. Any reponse I give will be cc’d to those interested, that is if I have your email address. I apologize to those of you who posted here to disucss the original forum topic.
Hey J Edgar, I’ve been visiting this forum for a few months, and I’ve read nothing but sensible comments from Sandman. So to say “I’ve warned you about your language before,” is so utterly condescending, I’m gobsmacked. And your “itching to edit.” left a bad tastte in my mouth too, BIG BROTHER. I regard Sandman as an “elder statesman” (if you like) on this site. So stick any toss about bad language where it belongs. And you can figure out who this is intended for by yourself. You know who you are: yes you.
Dontcha worry about me, though. I can handle the Jeffs of this world quite well on my own.
No offense taken btw Jeff. Your language point was acceptable, but alas, I too felt your other “points” to be out of line. No matter, you’re the moderator, not us.
I moan about the worst bits, enjoy the good bits, and do my best to adjust to the bits that are just different.
But I love the following quote from early in this thread. “Confusism”, hey? That has to be the best rendition I’ve ever seen for the school of thought bequeathed to the world by Kongzi. No wonder this culture is so damn perplexing!
[quote=“BaKaBaKa”]
I’m pretty sure that whatever country you are from, it didn’t have many Asians. If it did, then you’d understand. Asians as a culture are polite, nice people, because of how deeply embedded Confusism is within the culture.[/quote]
Yes, but is polite to one’s face honestly polite? A lot of lying goes on under the guise of “face protection” but it is seldom in anyone’s best interest but that of the liar. Nice people? Certainly in some cases, but isn’t this an unfair generalisation of a culture that is based in violence and shame? If you’re a teacher, ask some of the kids in your class. They tell anecdotes that will make your skin crawl.
I guess I can see both points. It IS really hard to be constantly in the spotlight, with everything you say and do noted, as if you have a biographer following you around, taking note of your actions as though dictating a documentary. On the other hand, you are in Taiwan, not your home country. If you wanted to fade into the bowels of anonymity, you would have stayed there, right? You’re in Taiwan, so do it the Taiwanese way. Make them lose face if they’re pissing you off. If you’re in a restaurant and they’re having a brazen discussion about you, turn to a fellow diner and say in your best Chinese:
“Ta men jue de wo bu ting dong jung wen. (shake head sadly) Xiao ren!”
Now I know that the poor quality of this Mandarin is exceeded only by my poor pinyin, but as far as I know the basic jist is: “They think that I don’t understand Chinese. Losers!” If anyone can tell me the correct way to utter this somewhat offensive phrase, do tell. It worked the last time I was out; they were silenced and left immediately. But it’s all in good fun, and if you can’t take the heat, get out of the oven. And remember, in this culture (as perhaps in your own) it’s not necessarily wrong to lie, only to get caught. Use it to your advantage.
If you’re in a smaller centre, as I am, you will find that you become less of a curiosity as time goes on and that people will get to know you and you will get to know them, and as the faces (yours included) become those of real people, not stereotypes. Some people are honestly curious about your part of the world and if you tell them about it, you will make many lasting friendships. Then the opinions of the stereotypers will matter much much less.
Are you kidding? By far the best part of this thread is the Jeff/Sandman bickering. I suppose Sandman is the big swinging dick now and someone’s eating humble pie …
I’m not 100% certain that comments about culture shock which run along the lines of “ooh I can’t stand it when Taiwanese people do X, or Taiwanese are Y” are necessarily racist. Culture shock also happens when white people go to another country full of white people, even if those white people are from the same background. Plenty of Irish got / get culture shock on going to Australia, or the USA, where they mix with others of Irish stock. The labelling by Taiwanese of all whites in Taiwan is however based upon skin colour only. I am not saying however it is a negative thing. If I could get a US passport I would, and I would gladly stride straight into the bushiban of my choice with my new credentials.
It is possible that coming from a background where differentiation on the basis of race is taboo, where it is considered racist to describe someone as “black”, new arrivals are shocked to hear themselves identified and categorised, often inaccurately, on the basis of their skin colour alone. However, I am quite happy to “put up” with this notional problem on account of the preferrential treatment I have enjoyed in Taiwan, for no reason other than being white. Being a white man in a good suit and clean shoes is even more advantageous, so I am inclined to accept to a point the random generalisations and misconceptions about white foreigners, which stem from a combination of ignorance and zenophobia such as is found in any country in the world.