I was just wondering, when the average Taiwanese says “industrial,” do they mean bands like Einstürzende Neubauten, Swans, and Throbbing Gristle? For that matter, when they say “gothic,” does that include the Sisters, Siouxsie, and Fields of the Nephilim? And what the hell do Taiwanese mean by “hardcore”???
Nobody says industrial. And if they do, they mean Nine Inch Nails. Aaaaargh!
How is Swans industrial, by the way?
[quote=“twonavels”]Nobody says industrial. And if they do, they mean Nine Inch Nails. Aaaaargh!
How is Swans industrial, by the way?[/quote]
I was waiting for someone to argue the classifications. Einstürzende Neubauten, after all, is more appropriately experimental. Now we can have a real discussion. 
So, should we say “industrial rock”? And do you think it goes well with Mandopop?
[quote=“Swans”]Permission is bloodless.
Ambition is senseless.
Don’t make a wrong move.
Work with a purpose.
You win or you lose.
Imitate a slave.
Don’t make a wrong move.
Learn from experience.
Don’t be useless.
Waste is obscene.
Don’t make a wrong move.
Learn from experience.[/quote]
It probably refers to anything with a harder edge than Teresa Teng or those Taiwanese karaoke tunes you hear when you take a cab ride. Perhaps on the extreme, cutting edge of local hardcore are Jolin, A-Mei and S.H.E.
(By the way, Fütter mein ego!)
Monte cazazza coined the phrase to describe throbbing gristle, other than spk and a few contemporaries anybody using the term is mistaken.
just my 2 cents
I pretty much agree with shifty. However, I would say SPK more represents what Industrial actually ended up evolving into at the time. Although Einstürzende neubauten did have a period when they were there.
I don’t think anyone is solely making industrial today. Some dabble in it and have a release or two but either go on to metalcore or experimental.
If I had to classify the Swans I would say they are closer to Goth than Industrial, but I’m no expert. 
Not a very good example but you can see them leaning. Listen for yourself with the Swans covering joy division.
If you want to hear the joy division version you can find it here. 
I spent my day at a heavy metal battle of the bands. So I have a fresh memory of how that Jolin comment is wrong.
But seriously, why should Asia have the same music categories as the West?
Seriously. Why can’t you people understand that you are in a different culture.
Yes. They have bands I would say are industrial. I don’t much care for them, but they have them.
I know I sound like a broken record when I say this:
But if you want the heavy music, go find it and quit expecting to find it on your radio. Go to Underworld or the Wall or any of the many music venues here. If you aren’t going to go look for it, stop saying it doesn’t exist.
[quote=“SuchAFob”]I spent my day at a heavy metal battle of the bands. So I have a fresh memory of how that Jolin comment is wrong.
But seriously, why should Asia have the same music categories as the West?
Seriously. Why can’t you people understand that you are in a different culture.
Yes. They have bands I would say are industrial. I don’t much care for them, but they have them.
I know I sound like a broken record when I say this:
But if you want the heavy music, go find it and quit expecting to find it on your radio. Go to Underworld or the Wall or any of the many music venues here. If you aren’t going to go look for it, stop saying it doesn’t exist.[/quote]
When they develop music which isn’t just a direct rip off from Western music, I’ll consider that they have a music culture. Apart from YoYo Ma, is anything remotely popular or even known in the West?
Sorry if I sound arrogant, but most of what hear in this part of the world is utter rubbish.
There is a ton of music here that is nothing at all like western music. I know of more than a few rock bands that use Erhus. Erhu is not a common instrument in western music.
It seems to me that you want music that has a western flavor to suit your western tastes but don’t want it ripped off of western bands.
When I go to shows where the music is ripped off, I see westerners. When I go to shows where it isn’t, I don’t.
American music is almost solely American. Very rarely do bands from other cultures make it there. Taiwan listens to music from everywhere. It isn’t just American music. It isn’t just western music.
Maybe, instead of being cocky about the idea that you hear western music here but not in the US, you should see that the US has a much more closed minded stance and even in it’s ‘world culture’ is not very welcoming of music from around the world.
I don’t want music that has any particular flavor. I tend to ignore mainstream music and in fact I’m into quite a bit or arabic and indian music right now.
Most of the music I’ve seen using traditional Chinese instruments is pretty poor and I was extremely disappointed with the Rachmaninov recital I went to here.
I terms of music culture, the US maybe a little close minded on Eastern music, but I’m not too sure since I haven’t been there. You can’t argue that they aren’t world class though, and many aspiring classical musicians head to New York.
People define any kind of music genre in a million different ways, but for me Industrial has to include some kind of real machine or object being used to make music. Most of the clubs I went to had separate Goth and Industrial rooms, and Swans would definitely fall into Goth room. A band like Laibach also kind of has that construction site, factory, machine, heavy feel to me and would be more Industrial Room.
I’ve seen almost no bands in Taiwan that I thought were Industrial, although there were some hints of it at the Electronics stage at Formoz. Most of the heavier bands here sound more Nu-metal/Thrash Metal/Death Metal/Black Metal. Isn’t there a metal show at The Wall tonight?
That was kinda the whole point of the thread, sweetie. Just a hint of sarcasm and a glaring similarity to another thread…
I am interested in the way people name things though. Where I’m from, everyone called Swans “industrial,” and that’s the heading they were under at the city’s only good record store - the purists, however, insisted that industrial has no vocals or instruments. Several friends used to call EN electronic. And to many, hardcore is synonymous with punk - and to devotees it’s its own genre, with speed metal forming the tenuous link to metal. And sweeping them all under the rug of “alternative” doesnt do the trick now, does it? That has it’s own pop connotations. Underground doesn’t really do it either. And where on earth do we place the Residents? And what of bands that fit into more than one category or move in between? Interesting, however, that when people refer to a “rock” band, there’s comparatively little argument about it. Unless of course they’re comparing how different countries define rock.
But absolutely there’s music here that isn’t even slightly Western. And even if there are Western singer wannabes, I seriously doubt anyone in Taiwan is ripping off Swans. Or Throbbing Gristle. For a taste, elektronisk started this thread.
File under insane? 
You and I have to get together brother. 
I haven’t ever heard anything close to what we call Taiwan Gangster Techno back home. It’s much darker and heavier than any of the metal bands (aside maybe from Infernal Chaos that I like very much) that you hear regularly at The Wall and that just seem to copy Western metal.
I would like to know where I can get some of that stuff on cd.
File under insane? [/quote]
Considering “Third Reich and Roll” came out in the 1970s, they’ve had quite a career, eh? But have you seen what they’ve been up to recently? Of course there’s the YouTube Timmy series. But their latest project will freak you the fuck out.
It’s called River of Crime.
That’s ROC for short.
You can hear previews here. And Episode 5, which just came out a few weeks ago, is called “Termites from Formosa.” And it gets better. The whole thing is part of the upcoming MoMA exhibition, The Residents: Re-Viewed – anyone is welcome to submit video for the project through September 15.
