How I wish Taiwan was more like Israel

I have always wished that Taiwan was more like Israel…

scratch that idea… that came from my home-brewed beers…

Hmm… how I wish Taiwan was more like Israel. How about, I wish the Taiwanese president was bleeding from the brain, too? (~boom boom, CHING!~) Bad taste jokes aside… maybe instead of “wishing” for something that doesn’t exist, maybe it’s time to discuss the reasons why Taiwan isn’t Israel.

I say it’s because:

  • the majority of “ethnic Chinese” Taiwanese understand that they aren’t surrounded by racial/religious fanatics that wish to wipe them out of existence. The same isn’t true for Jewish Israel.

  • the majority of Taiwanese can imagine a scenario of peaceful coexistence/sharing with the mainland Chinese. You tell me how Jews and Muslims share the same religious sites.

  • no matter the barbarity of 228, most Taiwanese understand that they’ve never been victims of genocide based on ethnic/religious identity.

  • fundamentally, as a people, the Taiwanese are being “threatened” by a Chinese nation that perceives the Taiwanese as being fellow compatriots. A Chinese patriot hoping for reunification is hoping for an opportunity to embrace every Taiwanese as, well, a fellow compatriot. The Israelis, in contrast, are being threatened by an Arab/Islamic community that perceives Jews as being a different “other”; and furthermore, many religious leaders have argued, an “other” that must be cleared from Islamic and Arabic holy sites. An Arab patriot is hoping to “free” Jerusalem from the presence and influence of a Jewish state.

Pretty dramatic differences, wouldn’t you say?

Bad taste? No, just bad. It’s this kind of ill-natured jock stupidity masquerading as wit that makes this forum virtually unusable now

I actually admire much of Sharon’s later policies, so your hyper-sensitivity is certainly misplaced.

And if my representation of Arab nationalism is indeed incorrect, it was purely unintentional. How about you do all of us a favor, and win yourself a little credit, by offering a more complete story?

[quote=“Ivanchenko”]

In fact, I would venture to say that no nation on earth really has the
“right” to exist as a nation. [/quote]

The nation state is a modern political term. Its existence is the result of historical determination, mainly of those people whom identify with its geopolitical boundries. Its right to exist is granted from its being recognized nation states likewise determined. As are city states, protectorates, and other political entities including disputed territories such as Israel and Taiwan. And they are by no means the only states still involved in nation building (violently or peacefully). Indeed, many people within recoginized nations are struggling for thier sovreingty or independce. From Native American Indians to Tibetans, Kurds, …but I digress…

[quote=“Ivanchenko”]
To be an independent, soverign nation, you must have the will and the
means to defend your people and territory. Having other countries on
your side doesnt hurt, but is not absolutely necessary.
…unfinished[/quote]

On the contrary, having other nations on your side, i.e. others recognizing your geopolitical boundries, is necessary to becoming an indendent and soverign nation. Self-determination is only half story.

:idunno:

But what do I know?

Chou

Oh, and I thought the bleeding brain joke was funny. Sick to be sure, but funny.

Chou

Agreed. In fact when I opened the thread on that mysterious title I expected the answer to be something along those lines.

HG

I think the fundimental difference is that there are no religious zealots in the TI camp. There is no doctrine from a transcending truth dictating that there should be a state of Taiwan, and followers willing to scarifice everything to make it a reality.

The core group TI supporters are fueled more by racism than anything else. Their division is Taiwanese against all those WSR/Mainlanders, that somehow in their minds, usurped and wronged the Taiwanese from becoming the true leaders of Taiwan.

Even when CSB became president, there wasn’t so much relief among the core constituents that TI was going to occur tommorrow, but relief that finally “a son of Taiwan” became president.

If you want to compare the fanatical devotion of zealot Jews in Isreal and the zealot supporter in Taiwan, compare the presidential assassination attempts. Both attempts at assassinating CSB and CJG were to say the least small fizzles in history, more like attempts to get attention than actual political assassinations attempts. Yitzhak Rabin assassination in comparison illustates the devotion of the zealots in Isreal.

Annette or Golda? :howyoudoin: Golda was a hell of a lot tougher that’s for sure!!!

Golda had more cojones than any Taiwanes politician I’ve seen so far.

Yeah, but she sure lacked Annette Lu’s sex appeal, didn’t she? :laughing:

Yeah, but she sure lacked Annette Lu’s sex appeal, didn’t she? :laughing:[/quote]
Those various bandages. slings, eye-pathches and canes are a turn-on for sure… wink wink, nudge nudge, know what I mean…a real ‘goer’ she is…:wink:

Yeah, but she sure lacked Annette Lu’s sex appeal, didn’t she? :laughing:[/quote]
Those various bandages. slings, eye-pathches and canes are a turn-on for sure… wink wink, nudge nudge, know what I mean…a real ‘goer’ she is…:wink:[/quote]

Lots of politicians like sweaty black leather. I wonder if Ole Moshe would have rode Annette like a pony. :smiling_imp:

True, look at your buddy, below:

I don’t know, but clearly Ronnie would have.

True, look at your buddy, below:

I don’t know, but clearly Ronnie would have.[/quote]

This thread is on an Israeli-Taiwan theme!!! :unamused: Why have you brought Reagan into it? Why do Democrats despise successful two-term Republican presidents? Do Republicans hate FDR and WJC with such raw emotion? I am sure some do, but the majority don’t. In fact, many neo-cons admire FDR.

By the way, I am not sure if it is a good idea to make cheap shots about US politicians and leather. After all, many Democrats have made their careers out of leather. I mean, I respect and am fully supportive of gay rights/marriage, but putting international Mr. Leather in your bio? :laughing:

[i]Charles “Chuck” Renslow

Inducted 1991

Has been active in city, state, and national Democratic Party politics. He co-founded International Mr. Leather contest and set up the Leather Museum and Archives. [/i]

imrl.com/index.asp
glhalloffame.org/index.pl?todo=view_item&item=11

I’ve lived in both places. I know where I feel a rot safer…

I can’t imagine why anyone would wish that Taiwan was more like Israel. If it were, half its population would be refugees from wars in Europe and religious bigotry in the U.S. and the native Han and aboriginal populations would be squeezed into walled concentration camps on the worst land on the island with a 50% unemployment rate, living in apartheid-like misery.

Bloody, internecine violence would be a daily occurrence. A resolution would be impossible because both sides would be determined to cleanse the island of the other rather than live in a democratic society as equals.

Lastly, the Western refugees and the native Chinese populations would be inexorably pulling their most powerful patrons, Mainland China and the U.S., towards a confrontration with each other with the potential to engulf the entire Asia-Pacific region in warfare for a hundred years.

[quote=“spook”]I can’t imagine why anyone would wish that Taiwan was more like Israel. If it were, half its population would be refugees from wars in Europe and religious bigotry in the U.S. and the native Han and aboriginal populations would be squeezed into walled, concentration camps on the worst land on the island with a 50% unemployment rate, living in apartheid-like misery.

Bloody, internecine violence would be a daily occurrence. A resolution would be impossible because both sides would be determined to cleanse the island of the other rather than to live in a democratic society as equals.

Lastly, the Western refugees and the native Chinese populations would be inexorably pulling their most powerful patrons, Mainland China and the U.S., towards a confrontration with each other with the potential to engulf the entire Asia-Pacific region in warfare for a hundred years.[/quote]
Yeah…and the public transport would regularly be a target of homicide bombers, Pizza Huts would be exploding with regularity and mortars and rockets raining down on housing groups would be a common occurence. Of course you would also have self-loathers telling you how evil you were and saying how you just needed to “understand” those who regularly marched and chanted that their life mission was to destroy you, your children and everything you have worked for. Not to mind that this mind washing is starts with the children.
Oh yeah…don’t forget the 72 virgins they get for blowing you up! :loco:

Makes Taiwan look purty darn nice I’d say!

[quote=“spook”]"…and religious bigotry in the U.S. …"[/quote]…eh? :loco:

[quote=“TainanCowboy”]

"The brutal murder of Leo Frank did not occur in a vacuum. As the 20th century dawned, anti-Semitism was rampant in an American society where resorts commonly advertised, “No dogs! No Jews!” and magazines featured “humorous” caricatures of Jewish people.

It was in this atmosphere that the Anti-Defamation League was established in 1913 by a lawyer and fearless visionary by the name of Sigmund Livingston. Starting with only two desks in Livingston’s Chicago office, $200 and the sponsorship of the Independent Order of B’nai B’rith, Livingston spelled out the League’s ambitious, compelling mission: “to stop, by appeals to reason and conscience, and if necessary, by appeals to law, the defamation of the Jewish people. . . to secure justice and fair treatment to all citizens alike. . . put an end forever to unjust and unfair discrimination against and ridicule of any sect or body of citizens.”

I used to travel to Israel for business ages and ages ago and I sure wouldn’t want Taiwan to be more like Israel.

I had to ride in a car from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem with some American dude who spent the whole trip talking about killing every Arab in Israel. Or the time a Japanese took a punch because one of those Orthodox dudes didn’t want him to take a picture of the Wailing Wall. Numerous fistfights on the streets and beach.

Very tense society though I would greatly like to go back some day. But living there, no thank you.

Masada was cool.