Encouraging MT to cheat on his wife? Naughty little dragon, naughty! 
That sucks. My girlfriend is like that when I ask her how to say something in Taiwanese. Itās like trying to get blood out of a stone. The paranoid interpretation of this is that she likes having a language I donāt understand much of so she can whine about me to her friends on the phone without me understanding. But then itās doubly satisfying when I learn how to say something like āshut upā or āget it yourselfā and use it against her, because it really pisses her off 
Encouraging MT to cheat on his wife? Naughty little dragon, naughty! [/quote]
Thatās what I thought. I was trying to figure what LE might stand for: Leggy Exhibitionist? Limbo Enthusiast? Lecherous E. . .?
That sucks. My girlfriend is like that when I ask her how to say something in Taiwanese. Itās like trying to get blood out of a stone. The paranoid interpretation of this is that she likes having a langauge I donāt understand much of so she can whine about me to her friends on the phone without me understanding. But then itās doubly satisfying when I learn how to say something like āshut upā, āget it yourselfā etc. in Taiwanese and use it against her, because it really pisses her off [/quote]
I wondered about that ā if my wife likes being able to speak in Chinese with friends or in business without having to deal with my disapproval or feedback (becasue I have no idea what sheās saying). But I donāt think thatās a significant factor.
I think itās just that sheās a lousy teacher. She has other skills, but totally lacks patience and the ability to help guide a beginner.
Iāve also noticed that, while itās rare enough for her to provide me with any language assistance at all, when it comes to dirty words and insults she has never told me a single word. I tell her, come on, do you want me to learn it on the streets? or, worse yet, from forumosa? That gets a laugh out of her, but still no help.
My girl refuses to teach me bad things, so I asked her brother and he told me. Then I bought a book on it. Now I am the pervert King!
You always were, mate!
I just have the junior high school kids teach me the dirty words. Kids at that age knowāem all!
Hmm, caveat with the efficacy of long haired dictionaries: Make sure youāve attained a certain fundamental level or that you will be indisoposed through meeting homework for classes to the extent her time is impeded. Sheāll gladly pull out all stops to boost your ability under such a scenario.
However, she will almost certainly seek to maintain a language gap(usually Taiwanese) so she can discuss matters free of you knowledge with family and friends.
This has been my experience in Mandarin and more recently Thai (with Lao acting as the āsecretsā language in place of Taiwanese at the 'mo).
HG
Thing is, dirty words arenāt a normal part of speech here like they are in English. So you donāt really need to learn them.
You are kidding, surely? Or do you just live in a very protected environment?
Iām surrounded by academics and financiers most of the time. I donāt hang out with foul-mouthed betel-nut-chewing drivers of little blue trucks, no. 
But seriously, I hear folks say shit, fuck, piss fairly often in white-collar corporate America, and I donāt hear the equivalents in Chinese here in what is the same level of environment. Thereās a cultural difference.
It took me 4 month of 2hr/day one-on-oneās at TLI plud LH Dictionary (now wife) to get the the point where I could have a decent conversation and most time get what I ordered.
I hear the F word at work, but less often other curse words
Thatās been said often. Unfortunately, itās not always true. While I love my wife, god bless her sweet little heart, not only does she refuse to help me learn Chinese, but she actively discourages my efforts. When I ask whatās the word for X or what tone is used with Y, at best sheāll ignore me, but more likely sheāll screw up her face in intense exasperation and tell me she hates dealing with my lousy Chinese and Iāve got everything wrong. Itās not because my Chinese skills are so lousy either; itās because some people have no patience whatsoever and are totally not cut out for teaching. So, Iām struggling to learn Chinese in spite of my wife, not with the aid of my wife. 
I wonder if anyone else faces a similar struggle?[/quote]
I suspect this is more common that most people realize. The long/short-haired dictionary route to learning Mandarin only works when you have a willing partner, and frankly speaking, there are likely to be less of these in Taiwan/China than elsewhere (i.e. other target languages). Why is this the case? An awful lot of Taiwanese/Chinese people simply donāt like talking to foreigners in Mandarin. Itās often seen as a loss of face given how many years they have spent studying away in a buxiban (Heās speaking Chinese, whatās wrong with my English??? - yes, itās a truly weird logic to most Westerners). Just occassionally I suspect there are ethnocentric undertones attached as well (There is no way Iām ever going to speak my language, imbued with 5000 years of history, to a barbarian! - or words to that effect).
I get it on the street about once a week - someone comes up out of the blue and starts practicing their English with me. I usually refuse to reply to these people in anything other than Chinese, but often a silly competition will ensue where they try to āforceā me to speak English (and I try to escape!). Itās not just a question of some people arenāt good teachers. Some Taiwanese/Chinese people would much rather you didnāt speak their language at all. This is not all people mind you, but there are enough out there to be a right pain in butt if you making an effort to learn Mandarin. I tend to get the worst run-around from middle-class blues, but thatās probably because they can smell I detest them on sightā¦
A friend managed to shrug off this daily/weekly grind (depending on your luck) when studying in Shanghai by declaring himself Albanian. Worked fine as the last thing anyone in China wanted to do then was speak to someone from a (then) commie country. Unfortunately he happened upon some poor bastard that, you guessed it, had spent five years of his obvioulsy miserabe llife studying Albanian. āAhm, that would be the offical language of Albania, Iām from a small viallage and canāt speak the national language.ā
But more seriously, I think many locals avoid speaking Mandarin in much the same way I avoid speaking to anyone in fractured English . . . itās a pain. It seems to take awhile for people to āappreciateā your ability to speak Mandarin and most presume it will be bad. Think how many āborn abroadersā (hate the term foreigner) youāve heard loudly and proudly speaking their pig Chinese to all and sundry, usually with the local playing the game with the āhao lihaiā, or worse, a more distrubingly mangled pig Chinese of āni de zhiongwen jiangde hen bang lo!ā
I stick to my caveat. You have to attain a fair fundamental ability before the kicker of a long haired dictionary kicks in. Sadly I got a long way to go before that happens in Thai.
HG
I tip my hat to HG on this one. When he was living in Taipei county, I could always count on his good counsel (sp?).
God awful dress sense though. Are you still wearing that toupe and gold ingot around the neck HG? Iām sure the new lady on the scene is lying to you about these. Trust me on this one, they really DONāT look good. 
But she gave me the gold chain! And anyway, the toupeeās alright, cāmon. . . . it strips years of me . . thatās what she says . .
HG
Guangtouās experience parallels mine.
In general, one feels that foreigners speaking Mandarin in Taiwan, though acceptable, is not always welcome.
Case in point: When Haribo speaks Taiwanese to his girlfriend, she gets pissed off.
Need I comment?
I suspect that the situation here is why the Stanford Mandarin center moved out of NTU and went to the mainland.
My wife was a pretty reluctant Mandarin teacher for awhile there too and then I got bloody nasty about it if you want to know the truth. I have been explaining things to her and correcting her pronunciation and grammar for years but then when I got serious about studying Chinese she was not discouraging exactly but extremely passive. Basically all I need/want her to do is translate things I want to learn into Chinese and I want her to do it slowly enough that I can write down the tones. Either that or into a tape recorder and she can just say the tones. At first she was really uncoperative about it so I just quit answering her questions about English and quit correcting her mistakes for awhile. I also went completely ape shit a couple of times when I really needed a translation and she was just too lazy or too busy watching some stupid television show to help me. Itās worked out quite well now I think. We both know how and when to help each other and we both appreciate the other. It wasnāt always like that. I think what some of you guys might want to try is getting right pissed that your S.O. is using your sorry asses for a fortune in free English lessons.
For myself, Iāve studied Mandarin at the university level for 2 years. My university only offers 4 semesters of it, and iām done with that so since then iāve just been studying it on my own. Plus, I work at a Chinese restaurant and get practice speaking Chinese (although it can be frustrating since they are from Fujian province).
Iām hoping once I move to Taiwan my level will really increase.
The poll should be how old are you in Chinese children years.
Iāve just been passed by an 2 y.o and was passed long ago by a 4 year old. Iāve been here nearly the same time as the 4 year old has been on the planet and had hoped to keep up.
I have noticed the 2 y.oās look with real intensity at the mouths of Chinese speakers when they are learning words. I canāt recall if English speaking children do the same.
I would imagine that I am in my late teens, read OK, can write a bit, and speak it better than most other bignoses living up on sunny Hill.
Honestly, if you are to learn chinese form your S.O., then you need a reasonable basis already in place, or you need to study on the side at a Chinese language centre somewhere.
When I first arrived in Taiwan more than a decade ago, I had 2 years of Mandarin studies behind me, and I could communicate. My then GF preferred speaking English, however as I answered her in halting Chinese, we slowly changed languages, so we ended just speaking Chinese. that helped a lot. She would correct my pronounciation at times, but would not slag me for my language. (She sould slag me for a lot of other things, however).
Since then it has not been an issue, as I speak the language very well. I am still improving, though.
Now, this suggestion is bound to draw a lot of flak, however the way each person uses his/hers language is subtly (sp?) different. Therefore, if you practice with Gfās it might be a good idea to rotate a bit. Exposes you to more than one way of speaking a language, or so to say.