[quote=“ac_dropout”]
I don’t know how this image protrays protestors as people with a conscious.
Attacking a 1 legged girl because she is Chinese is not only racist but sad.
I don’t know how she was involved in “oppression” and “cultural genocide”
but I’m sure whatever opinion she had of Tibet is now much less than what she had before.[/quote]
That is ugly indeed. A very good thing Thunderbirds came to the rescue!
HG
[quote=“ac_dropout”]
I don’t know how this image protrays protestors as people with a conscious.
Attacking a 1 legged girl because she is Chinese is not only racist but sad.[/quote]
Nonsense. They are not attacking her because she is Chinese… they are attacking her because she holds Bejing’s torch of oppression. You might consider that sad, but only one ignorant of the concept would call it “racist”.
[quote=“ac_dropout”]I don’t know how she was involved in “oppression” and “cultural genocide”
but I’m sure whatever opinion she had of Tibet is now much less than what she had before.[/quote]
So, you admit to the oppression and cultural genocide in Tibet committed by the Chinese. That’s a start.
I wasn’t aware the Olympic torches are manufactured in the PRC as well…
Well a Black man attacking an Asian man could be considered racist by some.
See even the White guy in the photo is too afraid to get involved.
Anyway, I am not arguing against the protests, I’m arguing against conducting them in a manner that is counter productive. So far they have done nothing to promote free speech within China that I can see.
One thing for sure is that people love to have an enemy. The protesters, the media, and the governments involved are letting this play out so that the people who should be communicating with each other on substantive issues are instead kept arguing with each other.
The olympics actually are a great opportunity for the world to contact a people that have been kept shut away for centuries, but if this opportunity is to be taken advantage of the people involved need to show more patience, more tact, more understanding of how the media operates to generate conflict, otherwise nothing will come of this than more ignorance and animosity than there was before.
That’s the central insight that is missing in this whole debate so far. I wish it was mine. Actually, it was inspired by something the Dali Lama said, which was that people should not boycott the games because it would hurt the feelings of the chinese “people”. I’d add that absolutely nothing good could possibly come from that.
[quote=“beebee”]It’s not the world which is against the Chinese people. It’s only the West which is against the World. Today the unfortunate turn may be China, next may be any countries in Asia, Africa or Latin America. I feel distressed when 9-11 striked NY causing thousands of innocents peoples being perished. I sympathized with any Americans that this mayhem must stop. The world must not go down together with madness of one man. As the events further unfolded, we saw how Iraq and Afghanistan were bombed incessantly without a just cause. Millions may have died by now. The world keep silence and life goes on.
Just as we thought that the start of the Olympic game, the symbol of hope and peace, will at least keep mankind in unison and harmony but it too break into millions pieces as we watched them today. The world saw and heard what the West either thru their leaders, high moral human rights activists and their agents blackmailing China and its people. We keep reminding ourself that it’s nothing more than a peaceful Olympic torch run, how significant can it be. But billions of people in Asia (especially the Chinese) and the rest of the world may have woke up just to watch how the West intimite China and its people. The Chinese have struggled so far after a long suffering under Mao, then they not only want to be part of the world community but be respected as one. Their dream may have shattered by now. Indeed they may come to point that they wonder whether what Osama said is right, “The West must be destroyed at all costs”. I dread thinking of what the world will be in future.
.[/quote]
I appreciate the sentiments but there was cheering in China when 9-11 struck. And there are good reasons to be angry with the Chinese government.
The protests are fine. But they should be conducted in a way that promotes open dialogue, or even the possibility of open dialogue between the people of the world. So far everyone seems intent on increasing the hostility.
China doesn’t allow open dialogue. Hence the protests.
Looks to me like many of the protesters are students chasing the latest greatest cause. Last week it was Burma or global warming, this week Tibet… 
It’s all playing out in the global stage, but none of the scuffels are being seen in China, and any that are reported are being portrayed as a minority of Tibet protestors, though it’s nice to see in the press here all the happy Chinese out on the streets supporting the event.
I have no problems with protesting, but the way it is going down right now makes the protestors look eejits in my eyes.
Indeed. They’ll move on to the next ‘latest greatest cause’ after it’s all over. Maybe there’s a G8 Summit coming up for them.
Couldn’t agree more. The message the protesters are trying to get out is undermined the moment the protest ceases to be peaceful, IMHO.
China doesn’t allow open dialogue. Hence the protests.[/quote]
I don’t mean to be sticky but I think that that is exactly the kind of language we should avoid using. The CCP doesn’t allow open dialogue. The CCP doesn’t respect human rights. That is a message a lot of Chinese people could relate to I imagine. As it stands, the protesters are insulting the very people they “claim” to be fighting for.
The regime weilding power in Beijing has no more right to parade some supposed symbol of everlasting (whoops, better extinguish it. There’s nutter protesters nearby!) hope of humanity than the original reincarnators of the Olympic torchlight procession: the Nazis!
Why is some propaganda-filled media charade to be defended as sacrosanct from protest? Are the commercial revenues from advertising too much too ignore?
Is this some sort of atavistic throwback attempt to justify the 1936 Olympics?
Oh, irony, thy curveball is most wicked!
Where is the torch [i]{siCK}[/i] headed now?
After mobbings in London, Paris, et al., where's the next square go?
If it came thru my town, you'd best believe we'd be at the thin edge of the wedge!
It's far & away time enough for the schools of the Nazi bands to realize that Time, The Avenger, is not on their side.
No, it's not.
:no-no:[quote]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/04/08/wtorch308.xml
Lord Coe was overheard talking about the attendants, who formed part of a huge security presence around the flame, during a private telephone conversation with a member of his press team.
“They tried to push me out of the way three times. They are horrible. They did not speak English … I think they were thugs,” he said. [/quote]
Oh my I guess when people don’t speak English in England, they are thugs…
That’s just racist.
[quote=“bob”]So far everyone seems intent on increasing the hostility.[/quote] I’m not gainsaying you, bob, but if it’s true that we are turning into a global village, then this fits right in as a (so far, I hope, relatively mild) response by the villagers. In the old days, it was called by various names–charivari, shivaree, rough music, etc., and it was used, rightly or wrongly, for various purposes.
I hope that cameraman is all right, and I hope nothing very bad happens.
Won’t work. In fact it will create “more” distance between the global community and the kind of people we would want to connect with in China. So far very few people inside that country consider themselves members of any global community. They’ll see what is sold to them as insults to the Chinese people as a whole and that is what they will believe. Secruity at the games themselves will be increased and the possibility of interacting with average citizens of that country reduced. The protesters should learn a bit about what they are dealing with and plan strategies that don’t shoot everybody in the foot.
Won’t work. In fact it will create “more” distance between the global community and the kind of people we would want to connect with in China. So far very few people inside that country consider themselves members of any global community. They’ll see what is sold to them as insults to the Chinese people as a whole and that is what they will believe. Secruity at the games themselves will be increased and the possibility of interacting with average citizens of that country reduced. The protesters should learn a bit about what they are dealing with and plan strategies that don’t shoot everybody in the foot.[/quote]
I can’t see anything in the above that I disagree with. Additionally, after looking at the pics and vid of the lady in the wheelchair, I got the thought, “I think demonstrations are supposed to demonstrate something. What are they trying to demonstrate here?”
The Chinese government has never intended the Olympics to be about international interaction with the average local citizen. Which has never been what the Olympics are about, in any event. The modern Olympics have nothing whatsoever to do with that of the Anicent. And as such, have been embroiled in political one-up-manship propaganda from the very start.
When it’s over, the Chinese social morality police will have some new, vital function.
Much the same as happened in Korea, with regards to the consumption of canines.
It’s all a load of bollocks!
Or rather a pair. The larger bollock, the right one, hangs lower and is boldly stamped CCP. The shrivelled left bollock, headed home through that little hole, is the protesters, headed these days I see, by none other than that beacon of political insight and savy George Clooney.
Yes, ladies and gentlemen it is a fine day in East West relations and one is… one is… something or other. I am sure one is something or other. There is after all work to be done. Vacuming and such.
Or rather a pair. The larger bollock, the right one, hangs lower and is boldly stamped CCP. The shrivelled left bollock, headed home through that little hole, is the protesters, headed these days I see, by none other than that beacon of political insight and savy George Clooney.
Yes, ladies and gentlemen it is a fine day in East West relations and one is… one is… something or other. I am sure one is something or other. There is after all work to be done. Vacuming and such.[/quote]
Apt analogies!
:bravo:
Thanks. Nice to know I can still hit the mark occassionally.
Seriously though, I’d like to recommend…
[quote=“bob”]Every protest I’ve seen has been against “China”. The CCP will definitely take that and sell it to it’s population as proof that the world is against Chinese people generally (which might not be far from the truth - ignorance and hypocrisy know no bottom that I can see). The protesters should make it clear that it is the government policies they are protesting and not the Chinese people, otherwise they are blowing this unique opporurtunity to connect with the population in a meaningful way. Worse than blowing it actually. The CCP is probably laughing it’s ass off.
If the protestors had any brains, any knowledge, any wisdom at all they would fill their banners and slogans with positive messages, “Freedom of Expression for Chinese people,” “Human rights for Chinese People,” that kind of thing. And if they are too immature to understand that they should stay home, or at least off the international stage.[/quote]
Agree. Unfortunately, most Chinese will not get to see what the gubment doesn’t want them to see. Nonetheless, many people are pissed off at the spending on the Lympics, and no-one over 50 in this country believes a word the govt would swear. So that just leaves the young (impotent) the students (naive, full of racial identity and little else) the poor (starving, what else is new), the average worker (no time to watch satellite TV which he can’t afford anyway), and the rich (vested interest, kids in Australia).
So this revolution will consist entirely of middle-class white people on 30-day “L” visas for whom using chopsticks in a £50-a-head Chinese restaurant in Soho is a badge of internationalist pride. Poor old Chop-Chop Johnny out the back washing dishes for sixpence a week and supporting his aging parents in Hunan has forgotten more about China and earning a living in times of adversity that these pretentious soon-to-be-negative-equiteers will ever know. Oh yeah, and he couldn’t give a toss about Tibet. He knows they’re a different race with a different language and aren’t Chinese. What do you want him to do about it? He’s got his own poor downtrodden people to worry about just a little bit closer to home.
If you really give a toss about China, go out there and volunteer in an orphanage for a couple of years and then bring home a nice Chinese woman (they’re out there, just not in Tong Ren Lu) and her parents to live a life of luxury in your wonderful First World. Otherwise, go back to your frappachinos and your Sports Utility Vehicle that’s not paid for and moan about your mortgage in Hackney (E1 postcode not so fashionable now, eh?) with other like-minded social climbers searching for meaning in your dull cigarette-smoke-free coffee houses and gastropubs owned by large American and soon-to-be-bought-by-the-Chinese transglobal corporates. (I get paid by the word.)
Damn. Editor Phil mOr Space tells me to continue. So, we support a feudal theocracy in Tibet that neither the British nor the Russians could be bother to colonise at the height of their imperial expansion, yet we oppose Islamic theocracy in Iran. So far so good. (Is it a “hair” thing?) Putting exiled leaders back in power in religious troublespots worked so well in the past didn’t it? In, er, Iran, for example. (Will this do?)