How would you rate Taiwan's democracy?

On a grade of A+ to F, how would you rate Taiwan’s democracy overall?

  • A+, the best in Asia
  • A
  • B+
  • B
  • C+
  • C
  • D+
  • D
  • F
  • A joke. Taiwan may be better off under semi-authoritarian rule.

0 voters

How would you grade Taiwan’s democracy overall in your analytical mindset, considering the following factors along with your own criteria?

  1. Reception and treatment of foreigners, non-discrimination

  2. Consensual politics

  3. Freedom of the press, speech, and assembly

  4. Independent judiciary or rule of law

  5. Abiding by Confucian social manners

  6. Electoral cleanliness

  7. Political transparency

  8. Citizen participation and enthusiasm

  9. Regulatory quality, access to public services/social welfare programs

  10. Balancing pragmatism and idealism.

Better than … er … China’s? Myanmar’s?

I voted, guess what?

[quote=“reztrop”]5) Abiding by Confucian social manners

I am surprised at the above criteria!

Yeah, I don’t think some of the factors listed are valid indicators of ‘democracy’, so I ignored them when voting.

As mentioned above, I don’t care for a few of the stated criterion listed, but I gave the place a “C” based on personal observations and opinion.

Its better governed than quite a few places; and it has the potential for rising higher.
But taking into consideration how deeply engrained the current flaws are, I don’t see Taiwan getting much higher than a “B” on this scale, if that high.
Their is just too much ‘chabuduo’(sp?) built into the culture and its political manifestation and is accepted by the populace. Too much - “Thats not my baby” mentality seen as the ‘right and correct way’ (the Dao) of Taiwan politics and culture.

I don’t see this changing and it might be argued that its not my business or concern if it ever does change.

What about “C+, the best in Asia”?

Japanese are elder in democracy values, and they do take drastic measures when corruption charges come above, so I would rate it as a B-.
As for Taiwan, once all the people here understand that laws are laws and are to be abided, and not because the 3rd uncle from the cousins mother of the wife of your brother in law is a big guy somewhere you are free to do whatever. I had my case here where “I followed the law and the law lost” (singing).

I have trouble figuring out what all these local politicians want, except for winning the next election.

In the West you have parties with more or less defined values (conservatives, democrats, laborers, left/right wingers, extreme left/right wingers, religious types, nature lovers, and so on). The only issue that divides political parties here seems to be pro or against independence, but then, nobody says in public what he really wants.

I give the system a C for being immature, but showing signs of moving in the right direction.

Not trying hard enough. Makes attendance call, but far too immature to develop it’s own potential. Hoping for vast improvement (not much place to go, except up) next time(s) around.

Nope, you’re having no trouble at all. That’s exactly what they want. You can’t think any further ahead than that because they haven’t, either – well, apart from the graft money of course. You can be VERY sure they’re thinking of that, all right.
Elections and pocket-lining. They don’t think about anything other than that. As is painfully obvious.

they are born, educated and live in that way… hard to make a change, I would say, unless you go and destroy the establishment…

[quote=“hannes”]I have trouble figuring out what all these local politicians want, except for winning the next election.

In the West you have parties with more or less defined values (conservatives, democrats, laborers, left/right wingers, extreme left/right wingers, religious types, nature lovers, and so on). The only issue that divides political parties here seems to be pro or against independence, but then, nobody says in public what he really wants.[/quote]
Personally, I think what you’ve observed is one of the core characteristics of Chinese/Confucian culture. Speaking in very broad, social terms… Chinese believe that wisdom comes only with education (mixed in with innate intelligence), and that the fact we were all born with a brain and a mouth does not make all of our opinions equal.

The idea that an average Jiang voter should decide “I really love trees and therefore I should push for a specific national agenda that favors environmentalism over development” seems, well, obscene at some level. It just doesn’t calculate. It just seems obvious specific decisions on specific policies should be left to those who’re educated and properly informed on the issues. Note that in Taiwan and Hong Kong, winning parties are often described as having “better local organization”… as in, communities are prone to follow local leaders they trust rather than making an individual decision.

This isn’t to say politics and national issues aren’t interesting to the Chinese. Everyone likes to gossip everywhere, whether its entertainment or sports or national policies. But when it comes to the final relationship between government and society… other than the obvious shared values (prosperity, peace, opportunity), I don’t think the vast majority of Chinese believe we’re doing the country any good by having a mass dialogue at that level.

Democracy, yes, because it improves the “quality” and effectiveness of government and eliminates corruption. But democracy because I “want” some specific policy from government…? Novel concept, and I’m not sure one that will stick.

Unfortunately, ROC has democracy and corruption. Seems like a worst of both worlds. I’m going to have to stick to Jackie Chan’s analysis of the political situation in Taiwan.

Democracy in Taiwan is when;

  1. Chen Shui-Bian appeared at Tainan election eve rally wheeling a drip and claiming to hv been poisoned by KMT agents
  2. Frank Hsieh accused KMT candidate in Kaohsiung election eve, with a last minute fabricated audio that suggested then he’d cheated on his wife
  3. Chen Shui-Bian was ‘assasinated’ at President election eve rally, accusing agents of China or KMT of being involved.
  4. Chen Chu accused KMT candidate of been “caught buying votes” on Kaohsiung election eve when it was later judged falsified.

At the most critical moment before the votes were cast, sudden scandalous incidents were set off by DPP that the opponents were unable to react to in time which may likely misled the voters.

Is this democracy we are talking of in Taiwan, or a conspiracy hike-hitching in the name of democracy.

Democracy in Taiwan is also:

A guy like Li Ao, like him or not, can openly call the president and almost any other politician (I think he only likes himself, really) names, and get away with it.

I kind of like the freedom of speech that TV people enjoy here (despite attempts by the government to undermine it, of course).

Unfortunately, the PRC has totalitarianism and corruption, coupled with an almost complete absence of the rule of law.

I am pretty sure that that wins the competition for woerst case scenario hands down, AC. And you want to bless us all with the same poison chalice? No thanks.

Maybe if the PRC dissolved itslef and called for elections on a no-party basis, then we’d like the idea of merging Taiwan and China, but before that happens, Taiwan’s politicsal system wins any day. Even as bad as it is, it’s still a winner over your tired feudalism.

Sorry, what did an HK actor have to say about the political system of another country? Ah, so if you listen to him, will you also listen to stars like Richard Gere, etc calling for Tibetan autonomy and religious freedom free from Han immigration-based cultural genocide?

Give me a break. Not passing judgement one way or the other on the ‘scandalous incidents’, but I don’t believe they caused many - if any - voters to actually change their vote from blue to green at the last second… As people assure me here all the time, ‘if you’re not blue, you must be green’ and vice verse… Just my opinion, but I don’t believe there are a lot of ‘undecideds’ out there who are swayed at the last second to vote one way or the other by political antics.

Another positive thing in Taiwan is, that demonstrations are allowed and that those demonstrations are mostly peaceful. Correct me if I’m wrong, but the last time Molotov cocktails were thrown on this island was at least 15 years ago, when there were riots between taxi driver gangs. Compare this to G8 meetings or demonstrations in Korea, and the Taiwan people look quite disciplined.

That’s understandable, TaiwanDawg. The majority of the voters may have made up their mind on who to vote, but a high proportion will still be undecided voters until the last minute. We have at times seen aunties and uncles asking, right at the doorstep of the polling station on the candidates and what party they stand for, or even worst, which candidate to vote. It’s more of a curiosity why all these political antics mastered only by the DPP, are being played right at the election eve. Maybe you have some justification which you will like to share.

It’s too early to say, hannes. We will wait when KMT is the governing party and DPP is in the opposition. The good perception of KMT legislators and supporters as a whole, are generally disciplined but the Greenies may be awkwardly uncertain… something akin to ‘amok’ mentality waiting to …