How would you rate Taiwan's democracy?

for beebee, AC, cctang and all others trolls

so what does that make losers like you then doraemon?.. :laughing:

labeling anyone with an opinion different to your own a troll, doesn’t seem very democratic to me, in fact it seems your thinking and Beijing’s are almost identical in that regard… good luck with that… :wink:

[quote=“plasmatron”]so what does that make losers like you then doraemon?.. :laughing:

labeling anyone with an opinion different to your own a troll, doesn’t seem very democratic to me, in fact it seems your thinking and Beijing’s are almost identical in that regard… good luck with that… :wink:[/quote]
Awww, Plasmatron! He probably spent AGES looking for just the right photo to make his … er … “point.” And you go and spoil it by pointing out the blindingly bleeding obvious. Shame on you! :laughing:

[quote=“hannes”]Democracy in Taiwan is also:

A guy like Li Ao, like him or not, can openly call the president and almost any other politician (I think he only likes himself, really) names, and get away with it.

I kind of like the freedom of speech that TV people enjoy here (despite attempts by the government to undermine it, of course).[/quote]
But Li Ao been doing that since the days of martial law. Using him as an example is not helpful. He was iconoclast during martial law and after marital law.

Of course exploding bags of rice, and various other civil disturbances don’t count. As long as no one sticks a fuse on a bottle of alcohol, democracy is preserved.

well, counting the time where MYJ “forgot” the law on the red army case… don’t think that lately we saw too many bad things over here…

doraemon, I’m sure that if the person on the photo is still a person, and deserves more than being called a retarded. By posting it, you have called yourself retarded.

[quote=“doraemon”]
[/quote]
I’m not an advocate of censorship in any shape or form. But I sure would like to see the use of this nasty little poster banned from the flob. It’s just downright fucking awful and makes my heart sink every time I see it…

Sandman wrote [quote]It’s just downright fucking awful and makes my heart sink every time I see it…[/quote]

Agreed. Not very nice at all. If I was in a pub and I heard someone say that,…

^ You’d buy the next round?

AC wrote: [quote]^ You’d buy the next round?[/quote]

It’s possible. :slight_smile: I do enjoy buying folks booze. My drinking moods can be as changeable as a woman’s so it’s difficult to say. The only thing you could be certain of is that I would drink a lot. Such certainties are very soothing in a fast changing world.

I actually like that poster…

…just get rid of the text and its a very good shot. It’s about having fun in life no matter what. Very inspiring. :sunglasses:

I actually like that poster…

…just get rid of the text and its a very good shot. It’s about having fun in life no matter what. Very inspiring. :sunglasses:[/quote]
Precisely. That’s exactly what the kid’s doing. The twisted 13-year-old fucktard who added the text, though, and the equally fucked-up morons who actually post it and find it funny …

Especially since the damn thing doesn’t even make sense in any case. What’s retarded about winning an argument? And how is winning an argument on the Internet somehow less clever than winning one in real life? If anything, it’s more difficult to win when all that’s available is text – well, except for the doraemons of this world, who apparently find they need to use nasty posters because they’re incapable of finding suitable words to make their points.
Pathetic.

I grade it a B. Mind you, I am not grading the politicians or the populace. But, I think Taiwan is very democcratic. Maybe I should have graded even higher?

I agree. I despise censorship in most forms. But, I’d support a decision to ban the use of that poster and text on this site.

I actually like that poster…

…just get rid of the text and its a very good shot. It’s about having fun in life no matter what. Very inspiring. :sunglasses:[/quote]
Precisely. That’s exactly what the kid’s doing. The twisted 13-year-old fucktard who added the text, though, and the equally fucked-up morons who actually post it and find it funny …

Especially since the damn thing doesn’t even make sense in any case. What’s retarded about winning an argument? And how is winning an argument on the Internet somehow less clever than winning one in real life? If anything, it’s more difficult to win when all that’s available is text – well, except for the doraemons of this world, who apparently find they need to use nasty posters because they’re incapable of finding suitable words to make their points.
Pathetic.[/quote]\

and what about the fucked-up morons complaining about my post?

[quote=“beebee”] It’s more of a curiosity why all these political antics mastered only by the DPP, are being played right at the election eve. Maybe you have some justification which you will like to share.[/quote]Like I said up front, I wasn’t passing judgement on the events or the timing. I could see why people would view that stuff as dirty politicking and get angry about it. But the KMT has their own version that pisses people off like refusing to accept the fact that they lost elections, and trying to physically force the president out of office instead of doing it legally.
Actually, the “you must be green if you’re not blue” bit comes from people I know who accused me of being a “DPP lover” because I didn’t like what was going on with the depose Chen campaign. Well, actually I was OK with it for the first week or so but then it got to be very disruptive to society as it dragged on - I mean like people I had know for years were ready to start a fist fight with me when I said I didn’t support forcing Chen out of office that way (and no I DON’T like Chen at all!!). That whole thing, to me, was much more damaging than some ridiculous vote buying video.

Shi Ming-De is part of the KMT and part of the pan-Blue?

[quote=“sandman”]
I’m not an advocate of censorship in any shape or form. But I sure would like to see the use of this nasty little poster banned from the flob. It’s just downright fucking awful and makes my heart sink every time I see it…[/quote]
I totally concur. ANYONE that would use that obscene and repulsive poster image to make any point at all has a serious series of major malignant malfunction.

But what else would one expect from a vapid, malicious Japanese cartoon character…

If anything, Taiwan suffers from an excess of democracy. Democracy = rule of the mob. Whatever the majority says, goes. It’s one of my pet peeves when people get democracy and republic and rule of law confused. Those are three different, separate concepts. Taiwan has more than enough democratic spirit, way too much, in fact. What Taiwan lacks is rule of law.

To oversimplify, a republic (which IMAO, is the best form of government) is a compromise between democracy (will of the people) + rule of law. Even in the best of Western republics, we are still struggling to get the balance right. Too much democracy = rule of the mob. Too much the other way = aristocracy. Neither is an attractive option.

There has never been a successful democracy since the ancient Greek city-states. Maybe Iceland sort of counts, since everybody there is a cousin of everybody else. Early colonial America had democracy in its original sense, but that’s only because Boston only had 5,000 people in 1700. Modern societies require a system more advanced than basic democracy.

“Excess of democracy” is a bit generalised, without understanding what is the cause. I agree to disagree on the point that what Taiwan lacks is the rule of law. In most democratic countries, it’s not unusual that once election result is known, the common people on the street will return back to their normal life without paying much attention to the national issues. A good case is US, when Bush was declared winner despite a slight majority. However, Taiwan is exceptional, not that CSB won in the 2004 presidential re-election in the same manner. It’s a case that a good majority of people believe that they are denied of an anticipated fair and unbiased result, which one way or another due to some circumstances rightfully or wrongly, is unfair.

Let’s recall back the last 2 presidential election results which a majority of people believe should be won by the Pan-Blue;

  1. In 2000 presidential result, Chen Shui-Bian won due to the splitting of Pan-Blue votes
  2. In 2004 presidential result, Chen Shui-Bian won with the smallest margin you can imagine, even with the uncharismatic Lien Chan standing. Whether it’s CSB who won, or Lien Chan who failed is not crucial, but it’s the attempted ‘assasination’ of CSB during election eve that caused the result to be skewed or distorted.

Unless the wishes of the peoples are met, there’ll always be pent-up feeling that their duty as citizens in a democratic country is unfulfilled. They may made up with noisy demostrations, legal actions blah… blah but at the end, the rule of law persist. In some other countries, if the same results will to occur, that’ll be disastrous with open defiance of authorities leading to clashes, skirmishes, riots, fire-bombs. etc. In normal situation, the ruling party will try to mitigate the feeling via goodwill negotiation, but in Taiwan, it’s just the reverse. Fortunately, democracy in Taiwan = rule of law. The pent-up feeling will not mellow down until the next 2008 election. But then, if any party win the election FAIRLY AND SQUARELY - presumably with Frank Hsieh and MYJ contesting, there is valid reason to conclude that the fire of excessive politiking will just peter out - but also in consideration there is no copycat of CSB’s ludicrous political antics.

Good luck, ROC.

George Bernard Shaw:

"Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve."

…carry on.