HSBC now treating all foreigners as non-residents? Why?

[Lord_Lucan]

Government must have run out of money again.

[bubbles]

@BigJohn

Hi Sandman: The good thing about the JFRV is that there is no 183-day period proviso and you are part of the wife’s hukou, so I’d say this new tax code thingy probably won’t apply to hitched up guys like you and me. This new thing is probably just a way to get more taxes from people who are here for a year and a bit, only pay 10% on the months fewer than six that they are here on their second year - based on last year’s tax calculation - and then take off. That’s my guess, at any rate.

I am married and here on a JFRV. I’m still waiting for HSBC to get back to me. They keep sending me emails that if I don’t want to be taxed as a non-resident I just need to call one of their customer service representatives who will be happy to help. I keep replying that I already called, and am waiting for a real response!

[Elegua]

@bubbles

[quote=“BigJohn”]Hi Sandman: The good thing about the JFRV is that there is no 183-day period proviso and you are part of the wife’s hukou, so I’d say this new tax code thingy probably won’t apply to hitched up guys like you and me. This new thing is probably just a way to get more taxes from people who are here for a year and a bit, only pay 10% on the months fewer than six that they are here on their second year - based on last year’s tax calculation - and then take off. That’s my guess, at any rate.

I am married and here on a JFRV. I’m still waiting for HSBC to get back to me. They keep sending me emails that if I don’t want to be taxed as a non-resident I just need to call one of their customer service representatives who will be happy to help. I keep replying that I already called, and am waiting for a real response![/quote]

Regardless of the tax law, move from HSBC. Even a local bank is better.

As for the tax rule, I’m surprised that the EU & US Chambers have not said anything. Even in the bad old days of CSB, the MOF used to listen and change grossly unfair tax laws, (well, for the most part anyway).

[CraigTPE]

@the bear

incorrect…the new law is that every year is a new year (if that makes sense)…you don’t carry over your tax residency status as you did previously…you have to re-qualify for 183 days in every year…

This is how I read the change, too.

Here is a link to an announcement from the Ministry of Finance, and it clearly points out that as of Aug 13, the tax policy has changed.

ntat.gov.tw/county/ntat_ch/d … _Elist.pdf

[Lord_Lucan]

@CraigTPE

[quote=“the bear”]incorrect…the new law is that every year is a new year (if that makes sense)…you don’t carry over your tax residency status as you did previously…you have to re-qualify for 183 days in every year…

This is how I read the change, too.

Here is a link to an announcement from the Ministry of Finance, and it clearly points out that as of Aug 13, the tax policy has changed.

ntat.gov.tw/county/ntat_ch/d … _Elist.pdf[/quote]

That seems to state quite categorically that foreigners are all now subject to a 20% withholding tax for the first six months of every year. So anyone who hasn’t yet left for China due to rather high income tax levels now has now received the final push.

Good bloody riddance to them. Bloody foreigners coming here stealing our jobs taking our wimmen etc. That’ll teach them.

Taiwan, eh? Anything’s possible! :roflmao:

[Icon]

I dunno aboout you guys, but I just signed a little document at work so that they will deduce 6% instead of 20%.

Ask your Personnel Office to see if you can do this too. For me it means a bit extra every month. If you have extra earnings aside from your salary, you will probably have to pay a bit when you present your tax records at teh Tax Office, but I usually get a refund, so no biggie in my case.

[sandman]

[quote=“Icon”]I dunno aboout you guys, but I just signed a little document at work so that they will deduce 6% instead of 20%.

Ask your Personnel Office to see if you can do this too. For me it means a bit extra every month. If you have extra earnings aside from your salary, you will probably have to pay a bit when you present your tax records at teh Tax Office, but I usually get a refund, so no biggie in my case.[/quote]
Any further information on this form? What’s it called and who issues it?

[Icon]

It is issued here especifically but I guess/assume other companies/agencies would have something similar, as it seems the logical step.

[sandman]

Any way you could let me see it? You could white out the personal parts.

[Icon]

Should be something along these lines, too:

[quote]To comply with above regulation, effective 01Jan2009, HSBC, the tax withholder, will treat all foreigners as non-resident from the beginning of every year and must withhold 20%** of any interest payment made to a non-resident foreigner.
If you want to change the withholding tax rate to 10% as a resident while you have resided within the territory of the Republic of China for a period of more than 183 days during a taxable year, please contact HSBC Direct service team for assistance. Thank you for your cooperation![/quote]

Meaning we just have to take an extra step to insure we get taxed as residents -though I dunno how we will prove this to the banks. I’ll go downstairs to the post office and see what they have to say about this. Auch! My piggy bank hurts!

[rocky_raccoon]

[quote=“Icon”]Should be something along these lines, too:

[quote]To comply with above regulation, effective 01Jan2009, HSBC, the tax withholder, will treat all foreigners as non-resident from the beginning of every year and must withhold 20%** of any interest payment made to a non-resident foreigner.
If you want to change the withholding tax rate to 10% as a resident while you have resided within the territory of the Republic of China for a period of more than 183 days during a taxable year, please contact HSBC Direct service team for assistance. Thank you for your cooperation![/quote]

Meaning we just have to take an extra step to insure we get taxed as residents -though I dunno how we will prove this to the banks. I’ll go downstairs to the post office and see what they have to say about this. Auch! My piggy bank hurts![/quote][/quote]

Thanks for sharing the useful info guys. I’m interested in taking action now with my employer so I don’t have to pay the 20% right from the start. (And what’s with having to wait until next year to reclaim it?)

Anyway I doubt they even know about this change and even if they did know it would take ages for them to actually get around to telling me about it. :s

[Icon]

Don’t blame the poor guys. Take a look at the link and the website in English. The change came up in August, and it takes quite awhile to trickle down and make sense out of it… And it is still clear as chocolate.

In summary: No evil intent, they just have to cover their derrieres…

[A-ha]

We are two weeks away from the implementation of the new tax rules and I’m STILL waiting for my company to inform us about it! I wonder if they are hoping that we won’t notice that there is a chunk of our salary that’s disappeared…

[citizen_k]

They probably aren’t even aware of it, as most companies who employ foreign workers usually are with regard to regulations pertaining to foreign staff.

What I’ve read on this new law so far seems pretty discretionary and places the onus on the employer, since it seems that if the company in question fails to deduct 20% for the first half of the year and the foreign employee ceases to work for them in that period, they (the company) will be liable for the difference.

[Brianjones]

HSBC are still doing this by the way (20% of their shitty1% interest or whatever it is…). It is discretionary and the vast majority of banks and employers do not withhold the tax these days. I was quite annoyed when they told me about this but at least they told me upfront before I opened an account.

[qwert_zuiop]

And here I am trying to open an HSBC account and applying for a credit card and they are telling me that it’s company policy that all foreigners need to put their passport country as country of residence. And I also need to provide an address in my “home country” (which cannot be Taiwan for foreigners…). I keep telling them that I live in Taiwan (even my passport says “Residency: Taipei”) - but they insist that I provide an address in Germany and even suggest that I use the address of “friends or family”…

[qwert_zuiop]

I just sent a complaint to HSBC’s email address to ask about their policy:

Dear HSBC-Taiwan,

today, I wanted to open an account and apply for a credit card at HSBC Taiwan, XXX branch.

While filling out the application forms, I put “Taiwan” as my country of residence and provided my home address in Taiwan as “home address” because I have been living in Taiwan since 2020.

I do not have any residency in Germany as I have deregistered my household in Germany. Therefore, Taiwan is my only residency and I do not have an address in Germany. Even my passport was updated by the German institute to say “Residency: Taipei”.

However, I was instructed by the employee handling my application to change “Taiwan” to “Germany” because according to them it’s HSBC’s policy that for foreigners the fields “Nationality” and “Residency” must be identical.

Also, I was asked to provide an address in Germany (“home address”). The employee told me that this address cannot be in Taiwan as for foreigners it needs to be in their country of citizenship according to HSBC’s policies. I argued back that I don’t have any address in Germany and they finally told me to put down the address “of friends or family” because otherwise the application would not be able to proceed.

Could you please explain the reasons for this policy.

Why are foreign nationals unable to open an account at HSBC Taiwan without providing an address in their country of citizenship - even if they don’t live there, but in Taiwan? And why is Taiwan not accepted as “residency” and foreigners are forced to falsely declare their residency in their country of citizenship even if they don’t live there?

I am looking forward to your response.

Thank you!

Kind regards,
qwert_zuiop

I am so sick dealing with banks in Taiwan…

Let’s see what they will reply…

[Andrew]

That’s clearly BS. Hopefully just a misinformed employee not an actual policy. Otherwise, time for the FSC I think.

[Mataiou]

I sent a complaint to them about it some time ago, and they said this:

Dear Mr. Xxx

Thank you for your patience and below please find our reply to the issue you raised to us dated 15Aug. (2023)

1. We have conducted an enhanced training to Kuangfu Branch last week by reminding the branch staff to check the version of card application before providing to customers. Separately, we have also asked Branch to dispose all the old forms to avoid similar issue happens again.
2. For the process of asking a copy of your identity during new card application, this is our control to validate customer’s identity as well as to ensure we obtain the latest identity documentation from our customers during new product application. This process applies equally to our Taiwan and non-Taiwan citizenship customers. We appreciate your understanding.
3. We have been assessing the Home Country field requirement and this requirement will be removed from the credit card application form in the near future. Your application for Titanium Cashback card will be processed without concern of this information provision.

Your insights are valuable to us and we appreciate the time you took to share with us for our continuous service improvement.

Which branch u went @qwert_zuiop ?

[Andrew]

@Mataiou

Thank you for your patience and below please find our reply to the issue you raised to us dated 15Aug. (2023)

Did you mean to post it like that? Quite difficult to read lol…

(If it was an accident, you need to remove the accents. They seem to encode some weird formatting.)