Which Taiwan do you live in, Mod? It sounds wonderful – so much better than the one I live in. In my Taiwan, the supermarkets are for the most part filled with chemical-laden, over-processed, refined-to-death, adulterated, nutritionless crap, and the restaurants serve food swimming in oil and loaded with msg, so that managing to eat a healthy diet is very difficult indeed. It’s such a contrast to the U.K., where the supermarkets sell a wide variety of healthy foods (organic, low-fat, low-sodium, sugar-free, non-GM, etc.) at low enough prices for any discerning consumer to buy – though a large proportion of British people still make the foolish choice of bloating their carcasses and destroying their health by feeding on the worst of the muck that sits on the shelves alongside those “good food” options.
[quote=“mod lang”]
In America obesity is very closely linked to poverty, [/quote]
I don’t think it is just a poverty issue. I think it is also a Ronald McGreaseburger issue. Don’t get me started on the kids, the playgrounds, the Happy Meals, the birthday parties and all the other brainwashing that begins at an early age. I can remember always stopping at McDonald’s during family road trips because that was the only way to get my little sister to shut up (“I wanna eat at Micky Dees!”), when some fruit and homemade sandwiches would be cheaper and just as nutritious. In fact, when I am in the States I am appalled to see lines of cars in drivethrus. Cold Front is right about America having an obesity problem. My body won’t exactly make the cover of Torso magazine, but there’s no excuse for all the lard you see walking around any U.S. mall. Yuck.
[quote=“fredericka bimmel”]
The thing that shocks me is that women friends of mine in the US who were my size when I lived there years ago, have all, I mean all taken on zaftig proportions and their male counterparts now have big fat bellies. I cannot think of a single caucasian male here in Taiwan that I know between the ages of 35-45 that has such an enormous gut like they do in the US. It’s definitely a combo of the food and lifestyle, not just genetics.[/quote]
Have a look at this:
"
Fat and Getting Fatter
In some countries, rates of obesity have more than doubled during the past two decades.
United States
1980s: 14,5%
Latest: 31%
United Kingdom
1980s: 8,5 %
Latest: 23%
Brazil
1980s: 7%
Latest: 19%
Germany
1980s: 11%
Latest: 19%"
Quoted from Neewsweek (August 11, 2003, “Atlantic” Edition). You can find the text of this very interesting article here.
All this is so true. A total stranger, a man, once came up to me in park in Taipei where I was reading my newspaper in the noon sun, and said, without any provocation, YOU ARE FAT!
And I am not fat at all. I said: WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT AND WHY ARE YOU TALKING TO ME, YOU DICKHEAD? He walked away.
the best thing of all this is the former news queen of the china post Miss Nancy Lu, who seems to have disappeared, thank God, but she one did an interview a while back with a local taiwanese arts supporter type, and the first graph said: “Mr Chen has been getting a lot fattere recently and it would be a good thing if he went on a diet.”
She said that in public, in her newspaper article. The poor man!
but, yes, it is a cultural thing, they just don’t get it. or maybe they do.
anyway, it aint over till the fat lady sings…
and ANNA WANG, if you are still here, we need posters like you to remind us that we are human, so please stay on board. Don’t take anyone here seriously, not anyone! then you can enjoy it better.
Anna Wang, are you the former editor of the SINORAMA magzine who now works for jason Hu inTaichung? If so, welcome. If not, stay tuned.
Most locals may not look overweight but they are horribly out of shape. The women seem to be obsessed with an ideal target weight but think nothing of the fact that they have zero muscle tone. I refer to it as UMS (Useless Meat Syndrome). Their diets are god awful (rice, oily food, boiled veggies). Tai Chi… give me a friggin’ break. After you do some kinda combination of aerobics/circuit training/running/cycling/swimming, then you can think about the Tai Chi b.s. Try yoga, at least that sh!t works.
Anyone catch the story earlier this week regarding the high numbers of local men enlisting in the army (due to the pathetic state of their economy) who cannot even do one pullup (with a one minute time limit). The basic requirement is only four pullups in one minute. Now that is sad, but expected.
Can’t blame culture for the stupid sh!t the locals say. We need to do some Pavlovian training but on a much grander scale. In the future, any time a local says something stupid (black skin is ugly, you are fat, hello, ect.) just punch the s.o.b. in the mouth. No, better yet the neck, because so many of the locals have f-cked up teeth you might hurt yourself. I figure we could have this matter cleaned up in a matter of days.
[quote=“taiwantim70”]
Can’t blame culture for the stupid sh!t the locals say. We need to do some Pavlovian training but on a much grander scale. In the future, any time a local says something stupid (black skin is ugly, you are fat, hello, ect.) just punch the s.o.b. in the mouth. No, better yet the neck, because so many of the locals have f-cked up teeth you might hurt yourself. I figure we could have this matter cleaned up in a matter of days.[/quote]
I think someone needs a long vacation. Hate has no place on the regular forums, dude. Take it someplace else.
[quote=“hypermegaglobal”]
Have a look at this:
"
Fat and Getting Fatter
In some countries, rates of obesity have more than doubled during the past two decades.[/quote]
Clearly, the aliens are preparing us for slaughter. Moo.
[quote=“formosa”]All this is so true. A total stranger, a man, once came up to me in park in Taipei where I was reading my newspaper in the noon sun, and said, without any provocation, YOU ARE FAT!
And I am not fat at all. I said: WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT AND WHY ARE YOU TALKING TO ME, YOU DICKHEAD? He walked away
.[/quote]
I can just picture you smacking him on the head with the newspaper!
Hey, maybe that was the only thing he knew how to say in English!
Or perhaps somebody erroneously taught him the word for “waigworen” was “fat”.
I’ve taught people wrong in my day, just for a laugh. I don’t know, it just amused me at the time.
But this thread is going in different directions. “I hate fatso-Americans” and “Why do the Taiwanese think it’s okay to call causcasians fat when they’re the fat ones?”
Shall I split it? I don’t think I could unless it were banana.
Yum. Let’s talk about why we have to eat mango fruit and gummys on ice when we could be getting FAT eating prailine chocolate gelatos instead?
Tomas,
Let me get this straight. If I demand respect from locals I am culturally insensitive and an outright a-hole. Even though I make no mention of the word "hate", you for some reason recommend I go on vacation. If you read the last paragraph of the post, my opinion should be clear when I write "we can clean this matter up in a few days". What I'm implying is that all the locals say stupid sh!t and that it would be virtually impossible to demand they change their ways. One would go insane if you try to philosophy why the locals have the manners of a five-year-old autistic kid in the west w/ ADHD.A bit. Yeah. Admit it. We should be the respectful ones. It’s not our country. When in Rome, eh? Meaning, get used to the insults, let them slide off, and think of a stack of good ones you can use reciprocally, if that makes you feel any better. When in Rome…
But say them with a naive lilt, or better yet, a big stupid pleasant grin on your face. :?
taiwantim70,
Had bad days? Reread your posts a few days later, you would know why Tomas mentioned “hate” in your posts.
Labeling and stigmatizing is a bad thing to do, and wouldn’t earn you any respect from locals.
Reset your mind, open your arms, you’ll find sunshine everywhere, even in sh*t Taiwan.
You even blame rice?!! You were totally insane!!!
Its’ crystal clear that not only locals say stupid sh!t. Welcome on board!!
[quote=“Alien”]When in Rome, eh? Meaning, get used to the insults, let them slide off, and think of a stack of good ones you can use reciprocally, if that makes you feel any better. When in Rome…
But say them with a naive lilt, or better yet, a big stupid pleasant grin on your face. :?[/quote]
I agree. I am 198cm with a big build and, yes, I am heavier than I should be. Add to that I’m a foreigner with a beard and I get stared at a lot. Any day walking down the street I’ll get pointed at, hear “hen gao,” have people jumping next to me trying to compare our heights, etc… When I first got here, it used to make me crazy. But, I’ve learned to give as good as I get.
Now when I get stared at, pointed at, etc… I do the same. If I catch someone staring at me, I’ll stare back until they turn away. If someone is pointing or laughing at me, I look them in the eye and say loudly “hello!” I figure, if it is ok for them to draw attention to me, stare at me, etc… it is ok for me to do the same to them.
The same with these type of comments. Whether they are based on ignorance, culture, hate, whatever… just do the same thing back. Don’t let them get away with it.
However, I have a question for all of you. What determines if someone is fat? Everyone has been talking about genetics, an environment, choice, build, etc… ad nauseam (spelling?). But, who determines which of us is over our ideal weight? If you look at the insurance companies listings, we’d all have to be sticks to be our ideal weight. They don’t take into consideration body type, genetics or anything.
We’ve already said in Taiwan (bone) thin is in. And, that to a large degree this is a result of genetics, diet, etc… We’ve also mentioned that in the US “average and acceptable” weights are higher.
I guess what I’m saying… and probably not all too well is: I think someone’s weight is a based on a number of factors, including genetics, build, environment, culture, diet, etc… Therefore, it is easy for me to judge someone else based on my own standards – i.e., what my own life experiences are. But, how do we know what is the ideal weight of the person we are looking at? How do we know if they are really healthy or not? How do we know how hard or easy it is (or should be) for them to lose weight?
My brother has been fat… no, obese, for a number of years. He has tried every diet and solution known to God and man. He’s tried accupuncture, hypnosis, the cabbage diet, Atkins, etc… In the last few years, he’s been too fat to even attempt to exercise. When I last saw him he was around 5’11" (180 cm) and well over 450 lbs (don’t know the kgs for that). He recently had surgery on his stomach and, finally, it has been successful. He’s lost a bunch of weight already. Will he ever be thin? I doubt it. But, do we have to be thin to be healthy? Who determines that?
As I said, I’m no underwear model. I could benefit to lose some weight and I’m trying. I, too, have experienced this “rudeness” in the Taiwanese. But, for me it has mostly come from my partner’s mother. Even though she is a “pleasantly plump” women herself, she constantly reminds me and my partner that I’m “fat.” One of the first times I met her, she kept trying to feed me food. Then, after I left, told her son that I was fat. Then more recently she made a comment to her friends that I only eat meat and dessert. I am an American, after all. 
Ok… I’ll shut up now. You are all free to rip into what I said and criticize it to bits. 
By the way… despite my brother being fat, I still find myself prejudice towards fat people. I still find myself saying to myself, “Sheesh, why don’t they stop eating so much,” etc… But, then I remember my brother and the struggles he’s gone through. So, I try to remind myself that it is not always easy for people. Choice or not. And, if you’ve never had to try that hard to lose weight, it is not for you to judge them.
The insurance companies should determine standards by BMI or body fat percentages, rather than weight.
Are you little John, btw?
here’s my [abrasive] chime in…
i only have no respect for people who are fat/obese/whatever if they have no respect for their bodies, if they gorge themselves and then blame genetics/fast food restaurants/others for their ‘misfortune,’ and then expect/demand others some sort of pity/sympathy or something.
obviously this is not everyone who is seen as ‘fat’. the brother described above, and people in those kinds of [“extreme medical”] situations that I know, who try to do something about it, are different to me. but somehow i believe that for the majority of ‘overweight’ people, they have the power to become ‘fit’ by adopting good habits.
and i guess it extends to other things, other habits: eating, drinking, drugs. if you ‘overdo’ it, don’t lead a balanced life, don’t be surprised when you get cancer, lose your liver, etc.
on the other hand, when i see some really really skinny women with really stick like legs, i often am surprised that their legs aren’t brittle and just snap at the slightest pressure. how do those ‘toothpicks’ support the body weight on top?
[quote=“Alien”]The insurance companies should determine standards by BMI or body fat percentages, rather than weight.
Are you little John, btw?[/quote]
Agreed, but BMI is based on height and weight alone, so body fat percentages might be more reasonable (though more troublesome to calculate accurately).
I am “one of those fat people” you disparage, Monkey. Two years ago I was diagonosed with cervical cancer. The method to preventing reoccurance was Depo Provera. Due to this medication, within one year I had put on over 100 pounds. I went from 130 pounds to almost 250 pounds in that time. I tried everything to get rid of it but due to the very high doses of this and another drug it has taken me over a year to lose thirty of those pounds. I went from 130 pounds to almost 250 pounds in that time. I can’t begin to tell you the emotional pain this has caused me. The chances are that I will never be of “acceptable size” in your eyes or the eyes of many others.
I exercise regularly, eat properly as well as meditate. Here in Taiwan I receive many comments from my students, strangers and others whom I may know. Yes, it is hurtful. I accept it though as a cultural issue and can usually let it go but when I hear people such as you make such insensitive, uneducated comments on forums such as this I am infuriated. How dare you and others make assumptions about other people without facts to back up your claims? According to you, I should “do something about it”? I have done and continue to do what I can. I am blessed simply to have my life! It is sad that you will miss out on getting to know some really wonderful people in your life, but with your attitude, they are lucky that you haven’t crossed their paths.
Until you have actually had to carry the weight, humiliation and pain both physical and emotional, don’t think that you have the right to pass your opinions on others. There is never an excuse for boorish behaviour and the intentional hurting of others.
Having let loose now, let me say that I appreciate the thoughtful comments that have appeared on this thread. It can be very depressing when one feels as though they are an abomination and support without judgement is certainly valued. I am grateful that there are some people who are open minded and understand that there are numerous reasons for obesity. I really hope that some day I will no longer have to deal with the attitudes of so many who have so little sensitivity - be it through, by some miracle, weight loss or be it education of society. Strange though, the information is out there - we simply choose to ignore it if we like our own ideas better and it makes us feel better to make others fell worse.
Well said totallytika, it just goes to show that is not so easy as “Eat less, exercise more”, although in some cases it is, but NOT ALL. People who say that are just ignorant. It’s just like saying “Pull yourself together, you’ll be ok” to a depressed person. Come on, who would CHOOSE to be like that ?
It is easy for perfect people to critize others that don’t have their matabolism, looks, talent for foriegn languages, money etc… I wonder how many of those people are smokers, I know which one I prefer to be around, and which ones make me feel physically sick. Don’t mean to be off topic, but there are much more offensive things than being fat. Being offensive and uncaring is one of them.
But saying that, I’m one of those who could eat less and exercise more, and I am working on it.
True enough, but unfortunately you don’t acknowledge that the vast majority of overweight people don’t have the same good excuse for their extra weight.
Most people don’t have a medical condition for their obesity or work as hard as you do to try and control it. Shouldn’t you be at least a little upset with these people that their overindulgence and laziness make it so easy for others to group you in with them?
I’m sorry for your condition. I truly am. But that doesn’t excuse other Americans – and increasingly other Westerners – from doing their best to not turn themselves into a walking, talking heart attacks. What other than shame and moral opprobrium can help them to see themselves as others increasingly see them?
[quote=“fredericka bimmel”]
I completely disagree. They know what they’re saying and they say it with some malevolence. Lots of haughty Taiwanese women tend to slight one another to boost their own egos. Since they’re all obsessed with being skinny, they KNOW that this is not the comment that a “friend” wants to hear.
I’m telling you this is true. I used to think it was just a cultural anomaly, but ask anyone if they think it’s impolite and they’ll say YES, or ‘We’re concerned’, which is crap. They would never say this to a really fat person.[/quote]
there’s a huge difference between a lack of tact and outright malevolence.
i have a cousin with an acne problem. she’s had really bad acne since she was a kid. she’s in her mid 30’s now, married, has a couple of kids and still has an acne problem. when other relatives see her, they will comment on it a lot. lack of tact on the part of my relatives? certainly. an underlying desire to insult and denegrate my cousin? i doubt it.
saying taiwanese people have no tact is one thing. saying they’re all mean-spirited bitchy people out to purposely insult their friends and relatives is quite another.