funny how people like me get in crap in trying to defend eating meat. For your information I was vegetarian for many years and my energy levels went down until I started eating meat again. I make a lot of my purchasing descions based on how environmentaly friendly a product is etc. By the way my grandmother is 93, still sharp and doesn’t need glasses to see, she eats meat. I am not saying being a vegetarian can’t be healthy, I know people that it does work for. The comment on dogs wasn’t ment to nitpick so to speak, it was to make people think. There is a natural order to things and dogs are carnivores. I can’t say that there is anything wrong with putting them on a veggie diet because half the crap in dog food is stuff dogs would normaly never eat. This doesn’t make them bad, it’s just their food choices and until recently humans were in the same position. Another point I would like to make, and one that turned me off some vegetarian type foods(tofu) is the farming practices to create such crops. Small farmers are being run off their land in certain countries to produce such crops. They starve, their family starve all in the name of tofu. Yes this is an extreme example and does not happen everywhere, but it is pretty widespread in third world countries. I love animals but I believe that humans are omnivores. All the power to the people who can pull of the vegetarian thing, I couldn’t do it, but I don’t eat meat everyday and I think moderation is better than limiting the types of food you put into your body and over indulging(don’t know too many vegetarians who do this). All I am saying is that there is nothing wrong with eating meat or dairy or anything like that, there is something wrong with the way some of the creatures used for these things are raised and that should change. My arguement isn’t against vegetarianism but for the right of people to eat meat.
I’ve been vegetarian for 17 years now, and I seem to have much more energy than friends my age, but that may also be because I don’t drink or smoke. I did notice a huge rise in energy levels after giving up meat, but maybe that was just my metabolism.
I agree that cutting back on meat is the best way to go - no need to remove it entirely from your diet.
As for my dogs, I have ten at home right now, and they all eat raw meaty bones, eggs, and blended vegetables with supplements. Meaty bones make up about 85 percent of their diet. Why? Because it’s what they are designed to eat. Also, the availability of protein in raw meaty bones is about 95 percents, whereas in kibble it is about 40 percent - so, to give my dogs adequate amounts of protein, fewer chickens die. 
Which country eats the most amount of meat? Which is the unhealthiest? (other factors contribute, of course). The Japanese are not big on meat, except for fish, and they have great longeity (but they are not big on muscle mass).
Also not a big fan of Tofu (except Tigerman’s dog, who I will devour next time he snaps at me). 
When I first entered the site, I thought it was a porn site…but stayed on and realised that it wasn’t a good idea to have breakfast and surf at the same time.
Really gruelsome facts and images! Once I saw a documentary in Europe about how they ‘slaughter’ cows in a more ‘humane’ way (if that’s possible). They strike the cow between the eyes with a hammer-like tool. The quick crushing of the skull is supposed to paralyse the cow immediately, before it has the chance to realise what’s coming. But then if you looked closely, you could still see the cow twitching and struggling.
Meat just doesn’t seem safe any more. There’s mad cows (still mad), there’s poisonous pork circluating from pigs which died from unknown causes, and there’s pork laced with dioxin (think Holland!), then there’s the increasingly real threat of avian flu, whereas before that you had salmonela in eggs. While studying, I remember a friend telling me the reason why there so many are starving in the world is because the ‘richer’ countries eat so much meat. If all that land in the ‘developing world’ used for grazing by multinational meat co-ops could be set aside for farming, then there’d be less famine. Then again, he was a strict vegan and animal rights activists, but there’s some sense in that I guess.
I’m a so-called “home vegetarian”, which means I try not to eat meat whenever at home, but sometimes when out with people you just can’t avoid it (especially here in Taiwan, when all the good local specialities are meaty!) I used to be underweight for my height, until I had a strictly vegetarian diet for three months while staying at a monastery in Puli …in a matter of weeks I gained over 5kg! And I felt energetic and happy~ 
PS: what were they collecting the cow blood for? Not ‘cow blood cake’ (nio2 xue3 gao) I hope…
Oh man, that’s all I’d need.
Stray Dog is such a fat bastard too 
I really think that some peoples bodies are better at handling the vegeterian diet than others. Perhaps they have fewer nuitrient needs that come from meat than others. I know that I have a history of vitamin difficiency in women on one side of my family. So I am thinking that could have played a part in the results of me going vegeterian and losing energy. I am quite happy eating meat only a few times a week though, and not a big 16 ounce steak or anything like that. I completely agree that one of the best reasons for not eating meat is the amount of land it takes to raise it. Its funny but not very many people mention how farming affects the environment. There are very few spots of natural prairie land left now, all of it has been taken over for farming. Personaly I hate cows and chicken(bad experiences, they are evil) but I don’t think we should treat them badly just to squeeze a few more eggs out of them. On another note I wouldn’t worry about an epidemic brought on by eating tainted meat, its when the animal viruse mutates so that it can be passed on human to human through air and touch that we will have a severe problems, although seeing slabs of meat being transported in the back of a blue truck with no protection made me want to avoid consuming meat in Taiwan a lot more. As for health, stray dog I have seen how keeping active and involved makes people healthier and happier, and your one of the most involved and active people I have heard of, so I wouldn’t be suprised if you lived to be in your hundreds surrounded by many faithful companions. I guess the overall idea of this conversation should be how can we tread more lightly on this planet and provide more ethical treatment to those creatures out there that can’t speak out even when they are abused.
Hey! I’m skinny because I forget to eat, not because of what I eat. 
As a matter of fact, :soapbox: , when I go to the gym regularly, I put weight on and become quite ripped, I’ll have you know! 
Hey! I’m skinny because I forget to eat, not because of what I eat. As a matter of fact, :soapbox: , when I go to the gym regularly, I put weight on and become quite ripped, I’ll have you know! [/quote]
Well you KNOW I am taking the piss. I don’t think you are skinny!! I could do with a few months in the gym myself.
I just had a think about it, and through my quest to eat healthier I am eating a great deal less meat that I used to. Of the meat I do eat, most of it is fish and a little bit of chicken. Hell, if that bird flu does it’s thing I will drop chicken - which means I’d be pretty much on the same diet as some of my friends who call themselves veges.
Even tho I am not a vegetarian (yet) I think it is a step in the right direction to cut down on meat.
Sorry woudsprite, I didn’t mean it to come across like I was attacking you. You have the right to eat meat if you want, my point was just that a lot of people feel like they have to “defend themselves” when confronted with someone who is a vegetarian, and I’ve just had so many people arguing really stupid, nitpicky points with me trying to show me the “error of my ways” in being a vegetarian. (Jeez, why can’t people just accept that it’s my choice and leave it at that? (that isn’t referring to anyone on this website BTW)) As I said, I don’t think it’s unhealthy to eat meat (as long as it’s in moderation) but I don’t do it for ethical reasons. Actually, I think that one’s health is far more affected by genetics than diet, but that’s a whole new topic.
With regard to the tofu-farming tyrants in the third world, I haven’t heard much about that. It’s unfortunate, but exactly the same thing happens with beef farming too. That’s why the Amazon Rainforest is being destroyed at such an alarming rate, to make way for cattle ranches. And many subsistence farmers are forced off their land and their families starve in that example too - all for beef. So tofu or beef, what can one really do?
That’s my point - we all try to do what we think is right, even if it is essentially futile in the big picture - why can’t other people just accept this without judging us?
[quote=“Formosa1984”]
Really gruelsome facts and images! Once I saw a documentary in Europe about how they ‘slaughter’ cows in a more ‘humane’ way (if that’s possible). They strike the cow between the eyes with a hammer-like tool. The quick crushing of the skull is supposed to paralyse the cow immediately, before it has the chance to realise what’s coming. But then if you looked closely, you could still see the cow twitching and struggling. [/quote]
Than I wouldn’t want to watch the halal (muslim) way of slaughtering, they turn it upside down and face it to Mekka and just slice the throat and let the animal bleed to death.
If you don’t trust Holland than I would rethink eating meat in Taiwan … ever seen what they feed the pigs here?
I often wonder where the cattle in southamerica goes. I am from Canada and almost all the meat we get here is raised here. I know what you mean about being vegetarian and having people question you. I come from old farming stock and my family reunions got interesting, mostly good natured, but sometimes it drove me nuts. I really belive portion size is the bane of man, at least here in north america, I really don’t know how someone could finish half the stuff they are given in restaurants and when I eat our I get weird looks when I ask for them to give me a smaller size(french fries). I hate to be horrible, but a pandemic might just be what this world ordered, there are just too many people trying to live opulant lives and too many people living in poverty and too many people all over. Go Bird Flue!
Nobody needs a 16 ounce steak … about 3-5 ounce daily should do …
Now … that’s not West Europe you’re talking about … most cattle in Europe is not kept on converted prairy land …
Yeah Taiwan … the way they transport most of the meat to wet markets … luckily we have mostly imported meats … it’s like the mobile butcher, having sitting all the meta all day in full heat and sunshine … :s
But chickens can be quite happy in their cages if not squeezed to much … the same goes fro rabbits, if left enough space to jump around a little and in an aircondition environment it is as peacefull as in space … absolutley n o sound or sign of uncontentment … and it’s the safest way to control the food chain, BTW you have to change clothes and be desinfected before you enter either chicken or rabbit pen …