I lost to the Dark Side yesterday

In principle I agree with bob, that violence begets violence. But sometimes it takes an asskicking to teach bullies a lesson.

I’d say, if my own experience is anything to go by, the moment young Rufus flips that little bastard on his back and shows that he’s more than willing to defend himself if need be, that little gun-weilding shit is going to stop pretty damn smartly. I was victim of all sorts of shit at primary school, till I whacked one of the little pricks in the head with a chair.

What exactly can you go after the school for?
I mean beyond their lame response… are they in anyway at fault … after all the boy brought the BB gun from home else bought it somewhere,

If they saw him with the weapon and did not remove it from him ( it may be a little diffiuclt to conceal it in his bag or jacket without somebody noticing), then what are they liable for ?

And what about the boy since he is a minor? Since he is a minor they can only expel or kick him out or expel him or send him to consuelling?
What about the parents? Can they be found guilty of anything barring giving the boy access to the weapon?

I assume in this bury your head in the sand or smile it off society, there may not be many cases of this or many cases that were taken to the courts

[quote=“TNT”]What exactly can you go after the school for?
I mean beyond their lame response… are they in anyway at fault … after all the boy brought the BB gun from home else bought it somewhere,

If they saw him with the weapon and did not remove it from him ( it may be a little diffiuclt to conceal it in his bag or jacket without somebody noticing), then what are they liable for ?[/quote]

Well, there certainly doesn’t seem to be a notion of in loco parentis here. There is an appalling lack of adult supervision at Taiwanese elementary schools, IMO. Nonetheless, whether the action has merit per the rules here is irrelevant to the goal of causing people pain (worry and embarrassment) and getting some action taken.

I’d say one reason that so many bury their heads in the sand is because so few take cases such as this to court.


Perhaps you could try to arrange a sit down with all parties involved - the kids, parents and teachers. Give your son a chance to express his hurt and anger towards these people in a safe environment. This will have the effect of healing the relationship between them by allowing them the possibility of seeing more of the complete human beings involved. The kids with the rocks and bb guns will probably feel and express real remorse and your son may be able to truly forgive, in which case this could turn into a valuable learning opportunity for everyone involved. It is up to you to demonstrate that you are bigger than them and able to control your violence. Easier said than done. Anyway I realize that you knew all of this already but I thought you might need a reminder just now.

or…from my knowledge of local kids, the kid who hit rufus will say ‘pai-sei pai-sei’ in front of the parents & teachers…then ask other kids to kick rufus’ around some more…

The best way maybe to bring justice/law to people who seem to have a warped logic on it (Taiwanese)…is to hit them where it hurts … in the pocket.

Then mom and dad may not allow Billy access to BB guns… and Billy may realise that there are consequences not just for him or the person he hurt, but for this family if he does something like this.
Other parents will also get this message that their is a cost to bringing up their kids like little emperors, and that is not unacceptable.
I wonder does this kid see what he did was wrong and why it was wrong?

On the school maybe all you can do is register a complaint that this occurred so they won’ t have the excuse the next time that something like this never happens ( bullying and bringing weapons to school) and may try and at least watch for bullying or curtail it

And even though that occured just over a week ago, the ‘little prick’ hasn’t acted up again!!

:laughing: :laughing: :laughing:


Do you actually think that the police or legal system are going to help you?!?

  1. 10 NT says that the cop is a distant relative or has some distant relative who’s a cop or that the kindy has a relative who’se a cop. Or worse, a lawyer.
  2. Its common wisdom that all foreigner are here to take advantage of the poor Taiwanese folk. They’ve get too many benefits as is and exploit the system for thier own good. (I’ve seen this used in court)
  3. The standard of evidence is so high it is almost impossible to prove
  4. You get counter sued for lible (sp?)

Or worse,
4) You actually win and the court discoveres 50 other illegal things and shuts down the school. Now you have an enraged school owner out to find everything illegal about you. Maybe he/she begins stalkingyou for breaking thier “飯碗”

You can call me paranoid, but I’ve seen similar things happen over smaller items in supposedly cosmopolitan Taipei.

[quote=“Elegua”]Or worse,
4) You actually win and the court discoveres 50 other illegal things and shuts down the school. Now you have an enraged school owner out to find everything illegal about you. Maybe he/she begins stalkingyou for breaking thier “飯碗” [/quote]

I’m assuming from Durin Bane’s post that this is a public school, so I’m doubtful that this would happen … :loco:

There are almost certainly legal remedies for what has happened, and I see little to no risk in pursuing it. One cop or lawyer who is friends with the school or parents would not be able to do much, and Durin’s Bane has plenty of his own guanxi as well.

Sitting down with the parents of the offending little brat is not going to achieve anything, as bob suggested. If the kid is behaving the way he is, it’s most likely because his parents are a@@holes as well, and any confrontation with them, no matter how calm DB is or how pure his motives are, would just turn into a pissing contest between him (a foreigner) and a couple of betel-nut chewing local yokels who won’t “get it” until they get stuck where it hurts the most … in their pocket books.

I agree with many of the previous posters who said to get on with the legal remedies ASAP … don’t waste any time whatsoever. Good luck and keep us posted! It’s little things like these that hopefully can lead to some improvement in not only the way foreigners are treated, but in the school system as well.

Then go for it.

I’ve rarely seen legal action get anywhere, corporate wise or personally. Threats of legal action work, but only as a part of some negotiation. It usually come down to some kind of, knock-down, drag-out, negotiation where you give a little to get a little.

I’ve rarely seen anything come out of actually going to court. Even when you win, eforcing the decisionis very difficult.

In any case, do you want your kid at a school that you just sued, public or otherwise? It can be very easy here to lose by winning.

I think DB just wants to make them sweat a little and is pushing for policy changes at the school so incidents like this in the

Point taken

Since I deal with elementary teachers every day, I’m sure they are very concerned about the incident, especially the BB gun. And probably a lot more concerned since you blew your top at them. Although I’m always concerned about alienating the teachers here after all they are the people responsible for your son’s wellbeing when you are not around.

I’m not sure that legal action would not just make things worse if this has been the first incident. I would definitely confront the parents in a straight forward way, but make sure your in a good space when you do it otherwise they’ll just think like father like son. I would encourage your son to stand up for himself as you have done. If he knows a little self defence then why not. The other kid will soon get the picture and I think in most cases you don’t even have to win just the act of holding your ground is enough. Kids respect that kind of thing.

Then if this fails consider taking further action. Move to get the other kid removed from the school. Don’t concern yourself with pocket book legal action. That way your not alienating the school but working with them to solve the problem and its humiliating for the kid’s parents.

If that fails and you feel it is an out of control problem i.e., the BB gun thing doesn’t stop and the stones are getting bigger move your son to another school.

Go and get the medical exam and photos now while the physical evidence still exists. Even if you don’t use it, it’s an available option.
You should go to the police and start a written complaint against the school and the shooter. Waiting around will not help any, so do it now. You can always opt to drop the complaint later, showing what a nice and reasonable guy you are…

IMHO both Elegua and Fox are correct in that legal action rarely fixes a problem, and a first contact with a lawyer is usually just a negotiating tool. The thing is that if you don’t start down this track now, the opportunity to do so will pass. By starting proceedings you are signalling the other side what the stakes are in the game, that you’re not easily fobbed off with a ‘paisay’ and a cup of tea. Shit rolls downhill here in Taiwan just as it does anywhere else. Get your friend in the education department in the loop, and they will start to put pressure on the principal to address your concerns before there’s any bad publicity.
Decide now what outcome you want to see and focus on that, whether it’s financial compensation, the expulsion or suspension of the shooter, or the father apologizing on his hands and knees. Decide and stick to those goals, because waffling around will get you nowhere.

My sympathies. I’ve got a son coming up who looks very American and I can tell already he’s going to get alot of attention of the wrong kind.

If I can be of any help, don’t hesitate. There’s strength in numbers.

The one thing that concerns me is that that BB gun is still out there – unless I missed something. Coming from a gun-toting culture I’ve seen what serious damage they can do. I’d make absolutely certain that thing is permanently on ice – no matter what else happens.

DB’s kids are having the same problems that all our children are having or going to have. The source of this problem is DB’s children are not the same race as the teachers and most of the other students in public schools. I would suggest that we assist DB in finding a way to deal with this is a manner that we all find acceptable.

And going to “the” school (sorry another thread) and being angry will be seen as being very different from that of a local parent. They’ll talk about irrational, over emotional foreigners wanting everything their way and having no respect for the way things are done in Taiwan.

Heck, I’d want to serve up their nuts for supper.

I can see it already starting with my son, and he’s three. Bigger kids gather round and stare at him and picking on him. He’s no pussy and his mouth runs off a bit much, but I worry because the kids who get their jollies doing this are much older. Damn straight, I step in before things get out of hand. But, there is only so much that a grown man can do or say to children, actually I can’t “do” anything really can I, it is all words.

When we are out I’ve got into the habbit of discussing other peoples kids behavior with those with me at a volume that the parents of the little pricks can hear. Kind of a slap on the face to their parenting skills and social mores.

So, if I were DB, I’d take this thing as far as it can go. Damn sure I wouldn’t drop it. I’d want to make sure that the offenders parents are damn straight about what is, and is NOT, acceptable behavior. But - then there is always a danger that the whole thing could be turned into a whole “us” and “them” kind of thing.

I, for one, would like to know how this turns out.

Common sense is something that isn’t very common anymore.


I politely disagree. Every time people lecture me on “local values,” I tell them there is no such thing as “Asian values,” except to people with the mindsets of Lee Kuan Yew, Hu Jintao, or the old guard of the KMT. There are universal human values that should be respected no matter if someone is in Asia, Africa, North America, or the moon. You have to fight ignorance as hard as you can. Which is why lawyers should lean on the student, the school, and the student’s family. Sometimes tough love is the only way. :smiling_imp: