I met a guy who has been working on the island for 15 years

I met a guy this weekend who never graduated high school, and he has been working on the island for 15 years. He just never leaves. Immigration never hassles him, and he just gets paid under the table. He is happy, and he does not cause any problems. I work with another guy from Canada who leaves the island every 3 months. He has been here for 10 years, and he just goes to Macau and gambles then returns. He is never hassled at immigration because he never overstays. This man is unable to process an ARC because he does not have a degree, but he has been working for the same organization for about 9 years. Many foreigners will marry legitimately or illegitimately with locals, so they can stay on the island. This is a common practice. This can be hard, especially for those who are wed to Canadians and Brits, because there is very little work in these nations for non-nationals. Sadly, children are often involved.

Must have been expensive in the days when it was only possible to get 30 day visas.

I know two people who have married for working rights. Neither of them are doing very well and neither of them are very happy. It doesn’t seem like a good idea.

Agreed. I wonder what makes people so desperate to stay when they can’t?

In the grand scale of Taiwan’s social problems, this ranks behind girls wearing glasses with no lenses. Come on we are talking at most a few hundred people, if that.

I’m not even sure what point the OP is trying to make.

It’s indicative of a bigger problem which is that Taiwan’s government and employers by and large don’t know how to recognize talent. A degree is no guarantee of quality, and it’s ridiculous that (when I got here) being fluent in Chinese and a native English-speaker, I wasn’t allowed to work at three different translation-related jobs I was fully capable of doing simply because I don’t have a master’s degree or the relevant “two years” of experience (which I actually did, but not the way the accursed CLA wanted them). These guys working under the table for a decade are never going to get the ‘legitimate’ experience required, but they’re clearly getting the job done enough for their employers to keep them on board despite all the difficulties.

Well, requiring a degree is an attempt from the government to improve the quality of foreign workers in certain sectors. “Getting the job done well enough for employers” might not be enough for a nation where broken English is accepted in translations because “it’s Taiwan, no one will notice”. Whether this works or not and whether they should be more flexible about it is up for debate.

For sure a lot of translations are more about saving face then actually creating a usable document. I went to the accursed CLA to complain and what they told me was they need to protect jobs for Taiwanese. When I said I had a unique skill set, the counter lady replied with: “Don’t underestimate us Taiwanese. A lot of Taiwanese people grew up abroad and have English that’s as good as yours.”

:fume: I kind of lost it and told her that it’s such a provincial (I think I said “backwards” since I don’t an adequate word for “provincial” in Chinese) mentality that’s causing Taiwan to fall behind its trade rivals and stormed out. And I didn’t even realize at the time how serious the brain drain issue here is.

This sort of conversation happened twice before I figured out how the laws work and decided to start grad school…

It got split off from another topic. The “doing a visa run to HK” one. When the mods do that, it is mighty confusing.

[quote=“Hokwongwei”]For sure a lot of translations are more about saving face then actually creating a usable document. I went to the accursed CLA to complain and what they told me was they need to protect jobs for Taiwanese. When I said I had a unique skill set, the counter lady replied with: “Don’t underestimate us Taiwanese. A lot of Taiwanese people grew up abroad and have English that’s as good as yours.”

:fume: I kind of lost it and told her that it’s such a provincial (I think I said “backwards” since I don’t an adequate word for “provincial” in Chinese) mentality that’s causing Taiwan to fall behind its trade rivals and stormed out. And I didn’t even realize at the time how serious the brain drain issue here is.

This sort of conversation happened twice before I figured out how the laws work and decided to start grad school…[/quote]

I am not sure what you are reffering to when you talk of provincial mentality, but I have to say I have met a number of native speakers teaching English in Taiwan without a solid grasp of grammar. I think there is a thread somewhere about the most commom mistakes out there, like “your/you’re”, “it’s/its” or “then/than”. The last one seems to be particularly common nowadays.

[quote=“Novaspes”][quote=“Hokwongwei”]For sure a lot of translations are more about saving face then actually creating a usable document. I went to the accursed CLA to complain and what they told me was they need to protect jobs for Taiwanese. When I said I had a unique skill set, the counter lady replied with: “Don’t underestimate us Taiwanese. A lot of Taiwanese people grew up abroad and have English that’s as good as yours.”

:fume: I kind of lost it and told her that it’s such a provincial (I think I said “backwards” since I don’t an adequate word for “provincial” in Chinese) mentality that’s causing Taiwan to fall behind its trade rivals and stormed out. And I didn’t even realize at the time how serious the brain drain issue here is.

This sort of conversation happened twice before I figured out how the laws work and decided to start grad school…[/quote]

I am not sure what you are reffering to when you talk of provincial mentality, but I have to say I have met a number of native speakers teaching English in Taiwan without a solid grasp of grammar. I think there is a thread somewhere about the most commom mistakes out there, like “your/you’re”, “it’s/its” or “then/than”. The last one seems to be particularly common nowadays.[/quote]

Provincial: a person of local or restricted interests or outlook : a person lacking urban polish or refinement.

BTW, you made two spelling mistakes in your post.

[quote=“Charlie Phillips”][quote=“Novaspes”][quote=“Hokwongwei”]For sure a lot of translations are more about saving face then actually creating a usable document. I went to the accursed CLA to complain and what they told me was they need to protect jobs for Taiwanese. When I said I had a unique skill set, the counter lady replied with: “Don’t underestimate us Taiwanese. A lot of Taiwanese people grew up abroad and have English that’s as good as yours.”

:fume: I kind of lost it and told her that it’s such a provincial (I think I said “backwards” since I don’t an adequate word for “provincial” in Chinese) mentality that’s causing Taiwan to fall behind its trade rivals and stormed out. And I didn’t even realize at the time how serious the brain drain issue here is.

This sort of conversation happened twice before I figured out how the laws work and decided to start grad school…[/quote]

I am not sure what you are reffering to when you talk of provincial mentality, but I have to say I have met a number of native speakers teaching English in Taiwan without a solid grasp of grammar. I think there is a thread somewhere about the most commom mistakes out there, like “your/you’re”, “it’s/its” or “then/than”. The last one seems to be particularly common nowadays.[/quote]

Provincial: a person of local or restricted interests or outlook : a person lacking urban polish or refinement.

BTW, you made two spelling mistakes in your post.[/quote]

The question was " what are you referring to…", not “what do you mean with ‘provincial’?”, but thank you for doing a web search for me that might be useful in the future.

I apologize for the spelling mistakes. I am no native speaker, nor have I ever considered a career in translation or language teaching. The arduous but rewarding task of refining and improving my English is one I will carry on for a long time. I could try to convince you of the difference between typing “m” instead of “n” on a smartphone and the mistakes I listed, but, again, I am not into teaching.

[quote=“Novaspes”][quote=“Charlie Phillips”][quote=“Novaspes”][quote=“Hokwongwei”]For sure a lot of translations are more about saving face then actually creating a usable document. I went to the accursed CLA to complain and what they told me was they need to protect jobs for Taiwanese. When I said I had a unique skill set, the counter lady replied with: “Don’t underestimate us Taiwanese. A lot of Taiwanese people grew up abroad and have English that’s as good as yours.”

:fume: I kind of lost it and told her that it’s such a provincial (I think I said “backwards” since I don’t an adequate word for “provincial” in Chinese) mentality that’s causing Taiwan to fall behind its trade rivals and stormed out. And I didn’t even realize at the time how serious the brain drain issue here is.

This sort of conversation happened twice before I figured out how the laws work and decided to start grad school…[/quote]

I am not sure what you are reffering to when you talk of provincial mentality, but I have to say I have met a number of native speakers teaching English in Taiwan without a solid grasp of grammar. I think there is a thread somewhere about the most commom mistakes out there, like “your/you’re”, “it’s/its” or “then/than”. The last one seems to be particularly common nowadays.[/quote]

Provincial: a person of local or restricted interests or outlook : a person lacking urban polish or refinement.

BTW, you made two spelling mistakes in your post.[/quote]

The question was " what are you referring to…", not “what do you mean with ‘provincial’?”, but thank you for doing a web search for me that might be useful in the future.

I apologize for the spelling mistakes. I am no native speaker, nor have I ever considered a career in translation or language teaching. The arduous but rewarding task of refining and improving my English is one I will carry on for a long time. I could try to convince you of the difference between typing “m” instead of “n” on a smartphone and the mistakes I listed, but, again, I am not into teaching.[/quote]

I’m not disagreeing with you. Everyone makes mistakes sometimes, regardless of the device. But if you haven’t noticed the provincialism in Taiwan just stay a little longer.

I guess the way I see it a degree is important because it means that the person didn’t just learn the fun stuff and skip the rest.

I’ve written several programs, some deployed county wide in a school system, but I’m no programmer. I only learned what was important to me instead of having a true grounding in all of the fundamentals, which places me squarely in the amateur category.

On the flip side, even though I had no real interest in certain aspects of the degree/career I chose I had to take (and do well in) those classes, and there have been several times that things have come up where it’s a really good thing I did take those classes.

[quote=“Charlie Phillips”][quote=“Novaspes”][quote=“Charlie Phillips”][quote=“Novaspes”][quote=“Hokwongwei”]For sure a lot of translations are more about saving face then actually creating a usable document. I went to the accursed CLA to complain and what they told me was they need to protect jobs for Taiwanese. When I said I had a unique skill set, the counter lady replied with: “Don’t underestimate us Taiwanese. A lot of Taiwanese people grew up abroad and have English that’s as good as yours.”

:fume: I kind of lost it and told her that it’s such a provincial (I think I said “backwards” since I don’t an adequate word for “provincial” in Chinese) mentality that’s causing Taiwan to fall behind its trade rivals and stormed out. And I didn’t even realize at the time how serious the brain drain issue here is.

This sort of conversation happened twice before I figured out how the laws work and decided to start grad school…[/quote]

I am not sure what you are reffering to when you talk of provincial mentality, but I have to say I have met a number of native speakers teaching English in Taiwan without a solid grasp of grammar. I think there is a thread somewhere about the most commom mistakes out there, like “your/you’re”, “it’s/its” or “then/than”. The last one seems to be particularly common nowadays.[/quote]

Provincial: a person of local or restricted interests or outlook : a person lacking urban polish or refinement.

BTW, you made two spelling mistakes in your post.[/quote]

The question was " what are you referring to…", not “what do you mean with ‘provincial’?”, but thank you for doing a web search for me that might be useful in the future.

I apologize for the spelling mistakes. I am no native speaker, nor have I ever considered a career in translation or language teaching. The arduous but rewarding task of refining and improving my English is one I will carry on for a long time. I could try to convince you of the difference between typing “m” instead of “n” on a smartphone and the mistakes I listed, but, again, I am not into teaching.[/quote]

I’m not disagreeing with you. Everyone makes mistakes sometimes, regardless of the device. But if you haven’t noticed the provincialism in Taiwan just stay a little longer.[/quote]

I do agree with the provincial assessment. Taiwanese do need to get out and see where it’s in in relation to the rest of the world. I saw somewhere in the forum complains about customer service in Taiwan. I agree, it is bad. They seem to put the worst person they could find in some positions, like behind counters. Some women act like they’ve gotten cheated out with their life savings the night before…像是給人倒了會一樣, 整天一副死樣子。

I am Taiwanese and I like to be Taiwanese.

You get what you pay for. Taiwanese companies try to hire maximum staff at minimum pay or bare-minimum pay. Obviously staff will sleep on the job, that is what they are getting paid for. It is the Taiwanese culture as I have experienced over half a decade. Money is the most important factor, within families, on the work front! Quality, who cares as long as the work is done (or looks like it is done).

[quote=“Charlie Phillips”][quote=“Novaspes”][quote=“Charlie Phillips”][quote=“Novaspes”][quote=“Hokwongwei”]For sure a lot of translations are more about saving face then actually creating a usable document. I went to the accursed CLA to complain and what they told me was they need to protect jobs for Taiwanese. When I said I had a unique skill set, the counter lady replied with: “Don’t underestimate us Taiwanese. A lot of Taiwanese people grew up abroad and have English that’s as good as yours.”

:fume: I kind of lost it and told her that it’s such a provincial (I think I said “backwards” since I don’t an adequate word for “provincial” in Chinese) mentality that’s causing Taiwan to fall behind its trade rivals and stormed out. And I didn’t even realize at the time how serious the brain drain issue here is.

This sort of conversation happened twice before I figured out how the laws work and decided to start grad school…[/quote]

I am not sure what you are reffering to when you talk of provincial mentality, but I have to say I have met a number of native speakers teaching English in Taiwan without a solid grasp of grammar. I think there is a thread somewhere about the most commom mistakes out there, like “your/you’re”, “it’s/its” or “then/than”. The last one seems to be particularly common nowadays.[/quote]

Provincial: a person of local or restricted interests or outlook : a person lacking urban polish or refinement.

BTW, you made two spelling mistakes in your post.[/quote]

The question was " what are you referring to…", not “what do you mean with ‘provincial’?”, but thank you for doing a web search for me that might be useful in the future.

I apologize for the spelling mistakes. I am no native speaker, nor have I ever considered a career in translation or language teaching. The arduous but rewarding task of refining and improving my English is one I will carry on for a long time. I could try to convince you of the difference between typing “m” instead of “n” on a smartphone and the mistakes I listed, but, again, I am not into teaching.[/quote]

I’m not disagreeing with you. Everyone makes mistakes sometimes, regardless of the device. But if you haven’t noticed the provincialism in Taiwan just stay a little longer.[/quote]

Taiwan is incredibly and infuriatingly provincial. It is the reason why I am not going to settle down here. I was wondering at what specifically was the previous poster was referring to: was he calling them “provincial” because they insist on requiring a degree for certain classes of jobs, or rather because they insist on believing some Taiwanese people can do those jobs just as well as a foreigner?

Ok Novaspes, you only have 25 years left on the rock. Make good use of it :slight_smile:

Gee, I wish I were that young.