I need help with a petition

Discussion Open Forum
1

Edit: If you’re just coming into this discussion, the petition is up and running already at petitiononline.com/taiwan05/petition.html

In response to all the recent discussions about how badly mistreated we all are in Taiwan (by banks, phone companies, government departments, etc.) I have decided to take a more pro-active approach. It’s not enough for foreigners to bitch, we have to be seen to have a commitment to Taiwan that earns us better treatment.

I’m going to try running a petition which calls on the EU not to lift the current arms embargo on China, which they have been discussing. The decision should probably be made in July and, although enthusiasm is waning, it can’t do any harm for us to add our voice.

I’ve tried to word it so that it doesn’t take sides in the dispute or advocate one particular outcome. I’ve also included phrases that probably refer to the anti-secession law and to the treatment of Taiwan passport holders on the mainland. They could equally well refer to anti-foreigner regulations here.

The aim is to collect as many signatures as possible and get the Taiwan government to at least recognise it when it is presented to the EU. I would appreciate some feedback in the next day or two before I post it online. Then I would be grateful if everyone here, and everyone you know, could sign it and tell everyone in the universe to do the same thing.

Thanks.

[quote=“Here’s what I”]We are concerned individuals, resident in Taiwan or mainland China, or otherwise having a strong connection with the Taiwan Straits region.

We view with concern any move by any government or other authority which threatens the freedom or rights of people living in this area. Disagreements are resolved by discussion, not by threats or legislation which prevent individuals from exercising their rights. All persons living in any jurisdiction are entitled to equal and fair treatment under the law regardless of the passport they carry.

A resolution to the issue of Taiwan’s sovereignty will only come about through peaceful means and is dependent on the relevant authorities being committed to the welfare of the people under their jurisdiction. We recognise that progress is being made to give and guarantee greater rights to the citizenry and residents of this region, and call on the European Union to support this process and to refrain from any action that may undermine it.

In particular, we oppose recent moves within the European Union to resume the sale of military equipment to mainland China. We believe that this would increase the likelihood of military confrontation at the expense of negotiation and respect for human rights. We respectfully ask that the EU maintain the current embargo on sales of military equipment to mainland China.
[/quote]

2

I don’t see what you need help with. It is clear, well written, and it makes a point. Now what you need to do is figure out how to get signatures on it. The signatures of the forumosans that attend happy hours won’t be enough. Maybe get someone with spare time to trapse around the english schools and pass it on. But what about the non english teaching foreign population (that is supposedly non existant but that I am a member of)
Gameplan, my friend. You have the well written petition, now how to get all the foriegn signatures??
Do you have any friends at any english speaking radio stations? (thre are english speaking radio stations here, right?)
Do you have any friends at ExPots?
What other english news papers do you know of.
While it is important to get any many sigs as possible from the local foriegn poopulation, you should also try to make this a join effort with the local population, right? Who can you have translate it?

I am such a pain in the ass.

Subsequent posts by poster:You should also use one of those online petition things. One of the more reliable ones.

And if you want to have someone set up a websight to host this on, I will loan you part of my domain.

3

[quote=“SuchAFob”]I don’t see what you need help with. It is clear, well written, and it makes a point. Now what you need to do is figure out how to get signatures on it. The signatures of the forumosans that attend happy hours won’t be enough. Maybe get someone with spare time to trapse around the English schools and pass it on. But what about the non English teaching foreign population (that is supposedly non existant but that I am a member of)
Gameplan, my friend. You have the well written petition, now how to get all the foreign signatures??
Do you have any friends at any English speaking radio stations? (thre are English speaking radio stations here, right?)
Do you have any friends at ExPots?
What other English news papers do you know of.
While it is important to get any many sigs as possible from the local foreign poopulation, you should also try to make this a join effort with the local population, right? Who can you have translate it?

I am such a pain in the ass.[/quote]

Yes you are. I plan to put this on petitiononline.com as soon as I’m sure about the wording, promote it through forumosa, taiwanho etc. and take some flyers to the combined chambers of trade bash at Carnegies on Thursday.

You lot will, I hope, all tell all your friends to sign and I’m absolutely cool with Taiwanese - or mainlanders - signing it. Anyone with a connection to the region.

Hadn’t thought of a chinese translation, and it’s a good idea, but to maintain strict neutrality I’d prefer not to. Simplified or traditional? Note that I don’t refer to PRC or ROC, I’m trying not to take sides at all.

There does need to be a press release and onlinepetition recommend doing that early on to bring in more signatures. Anyone have expertise with this?

I’ve got more surplus web space than I can shake a stick at, but thanks anyway. A bit off topic, but I need a designer for another project anyway if there’s one out there.

Thanks again.

4

A few suggested revisions below in bold:

[quote]We are individuals from many different countries outside of the region and from Taiwan and China, resident in and or nationals of Taiwan or mainland China, or otherwise having a strong connection with the Taiwan Straits region.

We view with profound concern any move by any government or other authority that threatens the freedom or rights of people living in this area. Disagreements should properly and in a civilized manner be resolved by discussion, not by threats or legislation that prevents individuals from exercising their rights. All persons living in any jurisdiction are entitled to and should receive equal protection and fair treatment under the law regardless of the passport they carry.

A resolution to the Taiwan issue should only come about through peaceful means and is dependent on the relevant authorities being committed to the welfare of the people living and working in their respective jurisdictions. We recognise and applaud the fact that progress is being made to give and guarantee greater rights to both the citizenry and foreign residents of this region, and call on the European Union to support this process and to refrain from any action that may very likely undermine the same.

In particular, we regard with a great sense of anxiety and strongly oppose recent moves within the European Union to resume the sale of military equipment to mainland China. We believe that this would significantly increase the likelihood of military confrontation at the expense of negotiation and respect for human rights. For this reason, we respectfully request that the EU maintain the current embargo on the sale of military equipment to mainland China.
[/quote]

Of course, these are simply suggested revisions… to spur on other ideas, etc…

5

[quote=“Loretta”]
We view with concern any move by any government or other authority which threatens the freedom or rights of people living in this area.[/quote]PRC supporters will twist this to mean the US and Japan… :wink:

6

I think this is an excellent idea. How about making some flyers with the web address of the petition (those little rip-off tabs that you can take away with you) and putting them in the regular foreigner haunts (e.g. coffee shops, Subways, bars, McD’s)?

7

I’ll adopt some of Tigerman’s recommendations, but not all because I don’t want it to be too wordy. Any other suggestions?

I’ll put the final version online this evening, and have been offered a translation to traditional chinese that I can link to. Many thanks to all those who have PMd or emailed support, or mae suggestions here.

Please do spread the word.

8

[quote=“Loretta”]

Hadn’t thought of a Chinese translation, and it’s a good idea, but to maintain strict neutrality I’d prefer not to. Simplified or traditional? Note that I don’t refer to PRC or ROC, I’m trying not to take sides at all.

Thanks again.[/quote]

If you attach both simplified and tradition translations, you would be neutral? And the people living in these countries could fully understand what you are petitioning for.

9

I would stay away from the phrase “mainland China”. It’s too political, as it suggests that there is another China. Say the P.R.C. and you’re on safer ground.

10

I second Maoman’s point; I also think it is an excellent, clear, and carefully worded petition (even in its original form). I’d be happy to sign it in person or online. :bravo:

11

‘Mainland China’ is a geographical term, as is ‘Taiwan’. The British Isles comprise a mainland and various islands, some of which are ruled from London and some of which are not. PRC and ROC are political terms, like UK or Republic of Ireland.

According to the PRC the island of Taiwan is part of the PRC, currently under the control of a renegade group called the ROC. You want to ‘recognise’ the PRC, but not the ROC? Or do you want to recognise the ROC too? The EU doesn’t.

I would rather not give recognition to either side or ‘meddle’ in someone else’s affairs. It’s an issue for the two sides to resolve between them, and all we’re advocating is that they do so peacefully - without the EU interfering by enabling a military resolution instead.

I’ll do the edit and try to get it on onlinepetitions in the next hour or so. Any last comments?

12

I think “Mainland China” is also a political term, in the sense that if there is a “mainland” China, there must also be one or more islands that are also part of China.

In the context of this petition, everyone knows that one side considers Taiwan a part of China and another side does not. Yes, "Taiwan also has a political meaning in the context of this petition… but, IMO, “Taiwan” and “China” are less politically-charged names than either “PRC” and “ROC” or “PRC” and “Taiwan”.

To make the terms primarily geographical and to lessen the political connotation, I suggest, per my revision, using the terms “China” and “Taiwan”. People can still read politics into these names… but, they cannot deny that these names are also pure geographic terms in their own rights.

Hope that makes sense… I am struggling with clarity in writing at the moment.

13

Makes sense to me.

Thanks.

14

Reading this as a non-native English speaker, it seems quite elaborate and “legalistic”, here’s a version that’s maybe a bit more “readable” even though the changes made are really minimal. Don’t forget that many potential readers will be non-native English speakers who might also not be too firm in Mandarin (be it Simplified- or Trad.-Characters - I’d also propose to have all three versions if possible, how about Esperanto … :wink: )

[quote]We are individuals from many different countries outside of the region, as well as from Taiwan and China, resident in and/or nationals of Taiwan or mainland China, or otherwise having a strong connection with the Taiwan Straits region.

We view with profound concern any move by any government or other authority that threatens the freedom or rights of people living in this area. Disagreements should be resolved by discussion, properly and in a civilized manner, and not by threats or legislation that prevents individuals from exercising their rights. All persons living in any jurisdiction are entitled to and should receive equal protection and fair treatment under the law, regardless of the passport they carry.

A resolution to the Taiwan issue can only come about through peaceful means and is dependent on the relevant authorities being committed to the welfare not only of the people living and working in their respective jurisdictions, but also of those living in other jurisdictions within the region.

We recognise and wholeheartedly welcome the fact that progress is being made to give and guarantee greater rights to both the citizens and foreign residents of our region, and we call on the European Union to support this process by refraining from any action that may very likely undermine regional peace and stability.

In particular, we regard with a great sense of anxiety recent moves within the European Union to resume the sale of military equipment to
China, we strongly oppose these developments. We believe that this would significantly increase the likelihood of military confrontation at the expense of negotiation and respect for human rights. For this reason, we respectfully request that the EU maintain the current embargo on the sale of military equipment to China. .[/quote]

15

[quote=“Xpet”]

[quote]…

A resolution to the Taiwan issue can only come about through peaceful means and is dependent on the relevant authorities being committed to the welfare not only of the people living and working in their respective jurisdictions, but also of those living in other jurisdictions within the region.

[/quote][/quote]

I think this is inaccurate… because, unfortunately, a resolution can come about through the use of violence and force… If the resolution could only come about through peaceful means… there would be little need for this petition.

16

petitiononline.com/taiwan05/petition.html

It’s up. Please tell everyone you know.

The latest suggestions came while I was doing the setup, and good as they are, I think we’ve got something that serves the purpose without further tinkering.

Many thanks to all for your input and support so far. Now lets put the word on the street and make our voices heard.

17

I’ll make this a sticky.

18

Ok, I put my name up on the petition. I’ll try to spread the word around.

19

Yeah, that was the reason I agreed with “PRC”.

20

We are concerned individuals, resident in Taiwan or mainland China, or otherwise having a strong connection with the Taiwan Straits region.
我們是一群居住在台灣、中國大陸，或者對台灣海峽兩岸有著強烈情感牽連的人。
We view with concern any move by any government or other authority which threatens the freedom or rights of people living in this area.
我們很關心任何由政府當局作出有可能會威脅到台灣海峽兩岸居民的自由或是權利的決定。
Disagreements are resolved by discussion, not by threats or legislation which prevent individuals from exercising their rights.
我們相信爭吵應該透過討論來解決，而不是威脅或是立法來防止任何獨立的個體行使他們應有的權利。
All persons living in any jurisdiction are entitled to equal and fair treatment under the law regardless of the passport they carry.
無論他們拿的是什麼樣的護照，他們都應當依法被賦予公正平等的對待。
A resolution to the issue of Taiwan’s sovereignty will only come about through peaceful means and is dependent on the relevant authorities being committed to the welfare of the people under their jurisdiction.
解決台灣主權問題的方法，只有在和平的狀況下才有可能產生，而這個解決方法需要一個以考慮人民福利為使命的有關當局。
We recognize that progress is being made to give and guarantee greater rights to the citizenry and residents of this region, and call on the European Union to support this process and to refrain from any action that may undermine it.
我們確信給予和保證這個地區的公民以及居民更完整的權利這個目標正在進展中，而我們也要號召歐盟一起支持這項措施，並且避開任何可能會損害這個目標的行動。
In particular, we oppose recent moves within the European Union to resume the sale of military equipment to mainland China. We believe that this would increase the likelihood of military confrontation at the expense of negotiation and respect for human rights.
尤其，我們反對日前歐盟欲繼續向中國大陸銷售軍用武器的行動。因為我們相信這會提高軍事衝突的可能性，也等於犧牲了談判協商的選擇以及對人權的尊重。
We respectfully ask that the EU maintain the current embargo on sales of military equipment to mainland China.
在此，我們謹求歐盟能夠維持目前對中國大陸輸出武器的限制。

petitiononline.com/taiwan05/petition.html

there you go. An easy cut and paste translation for those willing to try to help make thids public and signed.