naijeru, your post is somewhat less than helpful and shows that you didn’t really read much of what precedes it.
In previous posts, I did concede that there were rare cases of decent jobs. Although chances of finding one were slim, I did write that I was in fact looking. I also indicated in the very first line of the first post that the purpose of writing was to vent some frustration. I never said I was throwing in the towel.
I’ve only lived here 3 1/2 years. I would never claim to have perfect knowledge of anything, but I have a pretty good idea.
You know I’ve been working in a variety of jobs for 15+ years and I don’t think I’ve ever worked for a company that treats its employees like a valuable resource. That said in most places the people you work with are pretty grateful if you do a good job. If you get a better offer, take it and make sure you don’t screw them when you leave. Now companies being what they are, they won’t value any unpaid work you do, so don’t do it. And don’t expect them to show any loyalty if they can find a way to save money by taking it away from you.
Don’t be bitter because it will hurt you more than it hurts them. It’s just business, as the mafia say.
[quote=“KingZog”]You know I’ve been working in a variety of jobs for 15+ years and I don’t think I’ve ever worked for a company that treats its employees like a valuable resource. That said in most places the people you work with are pretty grateful if you do a good job. If you get a better offer, take it and make sure you don’t screw them when you leave. Now companies being what they are, they won’t value any unpaid work you do, so don’t do it. And don’t expect them to show any loyalty if they can find a way to save money by taking it away from you.
Don’t be bitter because it will hurt you more than it hurts them. It’s just business, as the mafia say.[/quote]
KingZog, were those 15+ years in Taiwan? If that was in the US, I’d say you had quite a string of bad luck. Until I came here, my experience with employers had been the exact opposite. My bosses had always treated me well, and I worked my tail feathers off for them. I have never had a Taiwanese employer express gratitude or appreciation for anything, and I am quite confident I do a good job. My colleagues and students express appreciation, which is some consolation.
Your other points are well taken. Burning bridges is a bad idea, no matter how much I might feel like it. I also hope to get over my anger, because it does only hurt me.
Well I’m talking about IT and short term contracts not teaching, so it’s a more cut throat environment where ever you do it. I’ve never worked in the US, but I have worked in most other places. Essentially the deal on short term contracts is that you trade more money in return for less job security. You’re not an employee though, your personal company is selling a service that happens to be you but the client can terminate that arrangement in a matter of hours without giving a reason. My point is that when things are cut throat, don’t take it personally.
That reminds me of the movie “You’ve Got Mail”, when Tom Hanks put Meg Ryan out of business. If anything, life is personal, or at least it should be. Life is about your relationship with people, including the ones you work with. I hope I’m never so cold to think that it isn’t personal, even if it means I get hurt once in a while. How you treat people matters, even if they work for you.
And I do know what an outside contractor is, thanks. I wasn’t always a teacher. Before moving to Taiwan, I was in the travel business, both agencies and airlines. We have outside contractors in that field, too. I lived in Silicon Valley. I know about the IT business and have many friends who were contractors.
Maybe you could try finding work with a foreign owned/managed company? I spent three years working Thailand and had an excellent experience due to the fact that both of the companies I worked for in that time were either owner or managed by foreigners. I heard plenty of horror stories about Thai managed companies.
In Taiwan, I’ve worked for three different schools, all Taiwanese owned/managed. In each school I’ve been treated strictly as a commodity, with no respect or little regard for my feelings and opinions. If I could find a foreign owned school, I would move there in a heartbeat.
My personal experience here is that foreign owned firms are more reliable in this regard, especially if they are large white collar international businesses.
I mean that you shouldn’t take it personally if the job ends, not that you should treat the people you work with in an impersonal way. That’s all. It’s about not being bitter, not being inhuman. But you shouldn’t expect the company to keep you when it’s not in their interests, because it’s not personal to them. There are two relationships here, the one you have with your co workers which is personal and the one you have with the company which is not. You need to firewall the two because the rules are different.
This is exactly why many, if not most, Taiwanese employers just don’t get it. This is why many, if not most, Taiwanese run business will always trend toward the lowest common denominator. You get what you pay for, even in Taiwan.
Every relationship is in fact personal, unless you are a machine. Employers should not forget their humanity nor the humanity of their employees. Treat your staff like crap and more than likely their performance will be crap.
Second, the point here is not if the company should keep you if it’s not in their interest. Have you read the preceding posts? It is in the company’s interest to retain hard working, performing employees. This is not going to happen if the company doesn’t show that they value them. Taking away holiday pay that you’ve been paying for years and cutting hours is not telling an employee that you value them.
The job has not ended. The school still needs teachers. The school claims they want me to stay and they act as if they don’t see the big deal in what they did. Presumably, they would want good, dependable, dedicated, experienced teachers. With employment policies like this, it’s not likely they will attract or retain them.
I think I’m starting to understand the attitude of so many foreign teachers. I get why there is always a revolving door at schools and cram schools.
It is possible to find employment of this kind, although the annual bonus is perchance a wish too far. A cautionary fellow will tell you that you still will not gain satisfaction in such an environment. A salaried fellow is more likely to be overburdened with non-paying chores that are handed out at the whim of the director of studies.
Craig do you feel you are in Taiwan for the long haul? Is there noise from your partner that a return to Western climes is on the cards at any point? If you feel you are there forever then I can understand more your uncontained discontent with the system.
To find an employer who will value you for your efforts, and will fit you into a well defined meritocracy is probably as likely as Taiwan electing as useful public official. Your nationality precludes you from moving upwards for as long as you remain in their system. Your choices are: A) to begin your own company, which is a large step.
B) entice your partner Westwards.
C) give up on your dreams and become an alcoholic.
D) Some beautiful mix of the above three options.
Dream the possible dream. That is a healthy choice in Taiwan.
I feel your pain pal. However, you won’t be able to do a half ass job and feel good about yourself, so don’t change your work ethic. Once you stop taking pride in your job, it will become a grind and a struggle and you won’t feel fulfilled. I still give more than i have to and always like to exceed expectations, but I no longer offer extra stuff outside of work hours like i used to. I would think that they would have to pay you for public holidays, worth looking into. My school has overlooked my for the head teacher job at my school. They hired a brand new girl with no teaching experience, and she is being trained by me for the position, how ridiculous is that? I am doing it because i like her and want to help, not for the school. The reason, she is an ABC and is paid less than me, they would have had to give me a raise if i got the position, but now this girl is makes less than my starting salary. My boss has absolutely no understanding of business etiquette at all, and is not even fit to carry my lunch. Damn right it’s personal, how can being taken advantage of and treated unfairly not be personal?
I know it sucks but maybe there is a lot behind what they did that you don’t know.
:- Maybe they fought hard to keep your job and this was the only way.
:- Maybe they wanted you to do the hours for free but somebody said that’s wrong.
:- Maybe they wanted to give you a pay cut as well but somebody saved you.
:- Maybe they wanted to cut your proper hours but managed to save them.
Point I am trying to make is many times they are not being nasty or stupid or horrible just bad communicators. Many a time people do things that we don’t understand.
If you were to talk to them would you be able to get an answer?
Wow, there are some really helpful posts above, it seems to me. :bravo:
I’m only on this particular island for a short while, but I’ve just come to exactly the same point as your OP title. I used to work hard, in part because I thought it would be appreciated. After our last staff meeting, I realise that it is simply not that way at all. The posts on your thread confirm my realisations. Nonetheless, I’ve taken it as a big hint as to how the world outside goes on and what part I and the lessons I teach play in them… Turns out it’s not as big as I thought. This pains the ego, but at the same time really lets me relax and step back. I now am no longer really intense about my work or the students behaviour or general I realise the pressure is off. Of course it was never there.
I, perhaps not to your extent, have always put in extra hours and tried my best to prepare the most meaningful and effective, memorable lessons I could. I always tried to be the most dynamic and intelligent teacher they ever met. I probably scared the shit out of many of my students, with my sheer determination and will for them to get it right, or die trying. Now, for me at any rate, the lessons I have learned recently, let me adjust my style to something that is more in-keeping with prevailing need and expectations. The funny thing is, now that I’ve put the work in, the less I appear to try the better and more effective it gets.
[quote=“CraigTPE”]
naijeru, your post is somewhat less than helpful and shows that you didn’t really read much of what precedes it.
In previous posts, I did concede that there were rare cases of decent jobs. Although chances of finding one were slim, I did write that I was in fact looking. I also indicated in the very first line of the first post that the purpose of writing was to vent some frustration. I never said I was throwing in the towel.
I’ve only lived here 3 1/2 years. I would never claim to have perfect knowledge of anything, but I have a pretty good idea.[/quote]
Conceding that there are rare cases of decent jobs is different from believing that you can get one. Comparing finding a good job to winning the lotto sounds like a defeatist attitude to me.
[quote]
Second, the point here is not if the company should keep you if it’s not in their interest. Have you read the preceding posts? It is in the company’s interest to retain hard working, performing employees. This is not going to happen if the company doesn’t show that they value them. Taking away holiday pay that you’ve been paying for years and cutting hours is not telling an employee that you value them.[/quote]
You are assuming you know what is in the company’s best interest. Has it occurred to you that it might be in the company’s interest to not value hard working, performing employees? Perhaps a hard working foreign teacher does not add as much value as you think one does. The sooner you understand the business culture in Taiwan and what priorities affect their decision making the sooner you’ll be able to work that system to your advantage. Right now I think your reasoning is based on assumptions about business and Taiwan that are incorrect.
Sometimes I’ve wondered about that, ever since I read this:
[quote=“Lao-tzu”]Not to value and employ men of superior ability is the way to keep the people from rivalry among themselves. . . .
Therefore the sage, in the exercise of his government, empties their minds, fills their bellies, weakens their wills, and strengthens their bones.
He constantly (tries to) keep them without knowledge and without desire, and where there are those who have knowledge, to keep them from presuming to act (on it). When there is this abstinence from action, good order is universal.[/quote]–Tao Te Ching (Tr. James Legge)
I’m not saying I know. I’ve just wondered about it. Maybe it’s silly to think that Laozi’s thought could trickle that far down. Then again, maybe the two thoughts spring from the same source.
I’m not trying to bum you out any further, CraigTPE. Like I said, I’m just wondering.
I keep swearing that I’ll never post on this forum again, on account of all the idiotic, useless loosers you see here whining like little children about petty stuff. And then I come across intelligent worthwhile people with very real and meaningful concerns and I can’t help but put my oar in in the hope of helping them out a bit - 'cos they do deserve it.
Craig, I’m not going to answer any single part of your rant. You’re venting, you need to vent, and saying “you’re wrong” is not at all helpful. People do it to me when I vent and it really pisses me off. So I’m just going to ramble on about whatever comes to mind, starting with…
So here’s a clue. Nobody really cares what you do in the classroom. You said it yourself. Does that help you get a better perspective on your ‘value’?
I am happy to report that I’m in a similar situation, although the reasons are slightly different. In my case, I’ve worked out why this is and made it central to my understanding of my relationships with all those lovely people who fill my pockets with loot every month. (Of course, I could be wrong. But it’s an approach that seems to work.) Life has been a lot better since then.
It’s like this: Taiwanese people know what English is. They have Taiwanese teachers to explain it to them and tell them what to learn. They have their weekly tests, their six-weekly tests, their big tests, their entrance tests, their GEPT, and all the rest of it. This is their world. However, they are aware that the results are not perfect, and have concluded that this is because they don’t have the opportunity to practise with real foreigners. And so they go out and buy some.
That’s you. You are a commodity. You are not part of the teaching syllabus. There is no explicit or implicit recognition in your relationship of the idea that you actually have anything to teach anybody. You’re just the “exposure” they think they need. A good friend of mine, who no longer posts here very much, quit his high school job in Taiwan a few years ago and one of his (our) Taiwanese colleagues shrugged and said “in Taiwan, we say that English teachers are like potatoes, if you need another one you just put your hand in the ground and pull out another one, they’re all the same.” He said it like that, using commas instead of making proper sentences, because he didn’t know fuck all about English. My friend, on the other hand, was a certified and experienced teacher and was very offended at being considered a potato.
So, you’re a potato. Your school needs potatoes. It doesn’t need you. People buy potatoes by the pound, at whatever the market rate is. This is your world.
Your problem, if such it is, is how to respond to the reality of your life in Taiwan. After all, you came here to be with someone so the probability is that this will be your reality for the rest of your life. Unless you can change it, that is. I have the feeling that the solution to your problem lies in a shift of perspective, rather than in any actual action.
At the moment it seems that you’re upset at not being valued in what you do. One approach, suggested to me on this site once, is to stop getting your sense of personal worth from teaching. I think they were suggesting that your job is just a means to make money so that you can do the things that interest you, and I suspect that you’re not going to accept that point of view. I know that I don’t. It’s like the quote from Admiral Yamamoto in Bridge On The River Kwai: Be happy in your work. (Lots of good quotes from that movie to help you deal with life among the orientals!)
You need to be happy in your work, but right now you can’t because you’re not being appreciated for the work you do. May I suggest that this means you’re doing it for them rather than for yourself? I can’t tell you what you should do, but I do believe that that way lies madness. I don’t have a dog to make my dog happy. I don’t teach English to make school administrators happy. I don’t stop at red lights for the comfort and convenience of other road users. I don’t (didn’t) come home knackered after sweating my balls off trying to hold a proper horse stance in my Taiji class in order to please anyone else. I do these things because I want to. And teaching English can be a remarkably pleasant way to earn a comfortable living.
I go to class to do exactly whatever it is that I want to do that day. I please myself, and nobody argues with me. It usually pleases me to challenge, educate, entertain, nurture, encourage, and otherwise benefit the people in the room with me but I’m definitely working to my own agenda. If people start telling me what I should be teaching then I just ask them how long it will take to find someone else to take the class. In other words, I get my sense of personal worth from being my own man.
To get to this position, I had to give up being dependent on one full-time job. I’m a freelancer, I turn down a lot of gigs. Or rather, I explain to people that if they want to define the terms of the relationship then I’m not interested. I’m the expert. You tell me what you are trying to achieve, and I tell you how to get there. I am not a potato.
Sometimes they listen, and I have the joy of knowing that I’m really making a difference. Sometimes they don’t listen, but usually that’s because they’re not really thinking about education anyway. They don’t want a great teacher who will work hard and teach them how to read the book of life. They want to look at the pictures. I have been hired p/t by two National Universities in recent months, and both said “it’s an advanced English class, what would you like to teach?” My role is not exactly clown, but I don’t have any illusions about being in those classes to genuinely teach anything. Sometimes, I am a potato. And that’s cool too.
High school kids especially have a raw deal. If I can make their week a bit less grim, and their English learning to be a bit less of a chore, and open their eyes a bit to what will be most useful then I’ve succeeded. I don’t need to grade homework. I don’t need to spend hours preparing new material. I don’t need to get shafted by excessive requirements created to make it look like I’m a teacher, because I’m not a teacher. I think it was the Mighty Toe who started me on the idea that you need to be a ‘coach’ or mentor, rather than getting all bent out of shape about how to be a good teacher.
So there you go. I keep a balance between different kinds of work, without killing myself in the name of imaginary requirements. I accept the role allocated me if I can’t redefine it myself. I try to redefine it where necessary, and expect to be properly renumerated most of the time, but sometimes you just have to accept that you have to work with what you have rather than insisting on having things your own way.
Actually, to add to what Charlie Jack quoted from Lao-Tzu, I got that idea from my Taiji teacher. Don’t fight the inevitable. Work with it and triumph. It’s an idea that is also espoused by practitioners of improvised comedy, and discussed in a book about thinking like Leonardo DaVinci. Nowadays I go around reminding myself that “Resistance Is Useless” and suddenly everything becomes a lot easier to deal with.
So, to summarise: you’re a commodity, learn to live with it 'cos you will never change it.
You’re going to be here forever. If you define for yourself what your work is then you define what you need to do to do it properly, and you can be happy in your work. Right now, you’re letting others define your job for you, and define it unrealistically, and therefore they define the value of what you do. There’s a disparity between what you think you have to do to and what ‘they’ think your contribution is worth, because they don’t understand the potential value of your contribution. As a long-term proposition, that’s not a recipe for happiness. Something has to change.
[quote]Commander Shears: You mean, you intend to uphold the letter of the law, no matter what it costs?
Colonel Nicholson: Without law, Commander, there is no civilization.
Commander Shears: That’s just my point; here, there is no civilization.
Colonel Nicholson: Then we have the opportunity to introduce it. [/quote]
And this.
[quote]Colonel Saito: Do you know what will happen to me if the bridge is not built on time?
Colonel Nicholson: I haven’t the foggiest.
Colonel Saito: I’ll have to kill myself. What would you do if you were me?
Colonel Nicholson: I suppose if I were you… I’d have to kill myself.
Colonel Nicholson: [raising the glass of scotch he previously declined] Cheers! [/quote]
I guess what appeals to me here is the sheer bloody-mindedness of it. There’s a kind of “I don’t care who the fuck you are, we’re going to do it my way” attitude you can’t help loving.