Yep Taiwan is really built for car drivers which a lot of foreigners don’t realise as they don’t actually drive cars. That’s another story again.
The problem here isn’t the fcuking scooters.
It is the population density of Taiwan which stands at 1655 humans/sq miles.
Taiwan’s population density is among the top 20 in the world.
So if you put 1655 scooters in one square mile in Taiwan compared to say 21 scooters in one square mile in Russia, then Taiwan is gonna be one hell of a noisy place compared to Russia.
A lot of people here don’t what they’re talking about.
Scooters definitely are not the preserve of people who can’t afford cars. I drove a car for years before I got a scooter. I drove one or the other (or took public transport) depending on the situation. I KNOW that that is the case for many Taiwanese families too.
As far as safety goes, scooters are not the menace. Bad drivers are the menace, and bad car drivers are much more of a menace than bad scooter drivers. I’ve had about 15 crashes of one sort or other in Taiwan. One was caused by a scooter. Two or three were caused by myself, and the other twelve or so were all caused by cars (over half being taxis or little blue trucks).
Environment. Scooters simply pollute a lot less than cars.
Public transport or bicycles is not always an alternative. It takes me 15 minutes to get to work by scooter. It takes 1 hour 45 minutes on public transport. If you take public transport it is extremely difficult to make stops along the way.
What SHOULD be the answer, and should be encouraged is scooters in tandem with public transport. Scooter (but not so much car) parking at MRT stations should be more plentiful. It should be charged by Easycard, with a rebate or refund when you use MRT or bus within 10 minutes or so of parking.
Seriously bu and sandman, you guys are saying that because you and some others perhaps choose to live far from your place of work the rest of us should accept an urban environment of bad air, bad traffic, dangerous sidewalks, and so on?
The fact is public transport is actually much better here than most countries, but other countries do just fine without 1/10th the number of scooters. Even taking into account Taiwan’s high population density and historical lack of public transport and low income the current situation is an anachronism. As I explained clearly the OVERALL drawbacks cannot be excused for added convenience.
This argument is just the same as saying we should all pay less tax and we would be better off (worked for the US…not!). Yes we would be better off but we would soon be swimming in our sewage , it’s the tragedy of the commons at work.
There was a good article in the TT about the overbuilding of new expressways over the past ten years so that it is in fact more convenient now to take a car many places than before. All this does is encourage more driving. Really shortsighted.
You see MM we agree on more than we disagree 
.
Anybody here ever drive on the coastal expressways of Miaoli and Xinchu? There are huge empty expressways all along the coast, nominally built as part of some industrial development projects years ago but now an underused eyesore that waste billions of NTD of public money. I have never seen more than a few cars and trucks using it at any given time! It’s a very direct way to experience what bad planning and corruption means. It was all about kickbacks. They continue to build more expressways all over Miaoli County now, Tongsiao, Taian, they build highways between non population centres like Houlong and Miaol City…they build elevated highways through river gorges (Dahu/Taian) FFS.
Well thought out policies matter. If you want scooters pay for dedicated parking, pay for a cleaner engine, pay for better driving instruction and regulation. Why is a scooter purchased in 2011 essentially the same technology as one bought in the 1980s eh? Why has the test not changed, enforcement barely changed, parking regulations changed? It’s all short sighted policies to get the laobaixings votes. I drive a scooter but not very often and I’m well aware of the ludicrous policies that encourage scooter driving and their general unhealthiness and unsafeness (if those are actually words?).
The convergence has been happening for a while as I grow more cranky about life here and you more satisfied. 
Its not a choice. There’s no WAY I could afford to live within walking distance of work. And even if I could, I’d be stuck down in the brown soup of Taipei with all them scooters and cars. Was there an inversion or something yesterday? God, it looked AWFUL down there from up at my place.
Don’t know. I was hiking the Tsaoling Historical Trail. Glorious day.
I usually take the MRT whenever I am going to Southern Taipei (Shida and downward), going out drinking, going to class (20 mins to Jiantan during rush hour, not bad), or when it’s raining. If I am going anywhere else in Sanchong, Northern Taipei, Neihu, Dazhi, etc., taking the MRT or busses is a royal pain in the ass. I hate the brown line, and I hate that I have to transfer twice to get to it, and literally go one stop on blue over then loop all the way back up on brown. Or, I could exit the system, take a bus, and re-enter it at a brown station. Anywhere along Red/Green/Orange/Eastern Taipei Blue I’m okay with the MRT, but that brown, forget it, I’m taking the scooter. Also to Banqiao or Ximending, there is a highway along the east coast of Sanchong I can drive 80 down all the way and a bridge with no traffic.
I do agree that the scooters are a bit dangerous for pedestrians (especially where I live, I think), but without improvements to the MRT (which they are actually building out pretty quickly, I think), people like myself are just going to rationalize that it is more convenient to take the scooter. That, and the Luzhou MRT has a 9 minute overhead at times.
Also, I’m from the US, and have been driving my own car anywhere I want to go since my 16th birthday. That may have something to do with it.
Do I prefer a scooter to a car here? YES. The longest I’ve ever had to drive across this city is maybe 40 minutes, and that was acceptable to me on a scooter. I can park wherever I want and weave through traffic. It is more convenient than driving a car. Comfortable? No. Convenient? Yes.
I have driven a car here before, and I was a wreck the whole time. I was more afraid of the taxis than the scooters. As a car driver, just stay consistent and don’t make any rash moves, then the scooters will be fine around you…but those damn taxis…and the blue trucks are a whole other issue.
I think the scooters are fine, and would prefer to have more scooters than cars, but the scooters need to be engineered quieter and infrastructure (like parking and lane designation for example) needs to be improved.
[quote=“crystaleye”]The problem here isn’t the fcuking scooters.
It is the population density of Taiwan which stands at 1655 humans/sq miles.
Taiwan’s population density is among the top 20 in the world.
[/quote]
And among the 20 other densely populated countries, which has successfully eased its transportation problems with millions of motorcycles? Which most closely resembles Taiwan? Bangladesh maybe?
I think it was finley who mentioned real policemen. There would be a huge difference in air quality if the emissions standards were actually enforced. I would also like to see tougher noise restrictions (not just enacted which in itself means F-all, but enforced).
Can’t see it happening anytime soon. Enforcing the law is simply not what Taiwanese police do (unless other considerations call for it). All we can do is to cultivate Taiwan’s dirty image, internationally, and embarrass the government into action. Maybe we should start a Facebook group. 
Can you imagine 30 cars parking outside each and every 7/11 at any given time of the day cause folks one block away just drove over to their 7 to buy a coke and cigarettes? I prefer 30 scooters.
Scooters are a ingrained part of todays Taiwanese lifestyle - replacing them with cars would be madness, and there are no buses going from everybody’s house to her or his 7/11.
As I see it, only foreigners and a few Taiwanese would favor a change of lifestyle, the rest is happy the way it is.
Continuing on the point of density, and denseness:
New York City: 8,175,133
Area: 1214 km2
Density: 19,630 km2
Taipei: 2,618,772
Area: 271 km2
Density: 24,954.4 km2
New York Metro area: 18,900,000
Area: 17,000 km2
Density: 1085 km2
Greater Taipei: 6,900,000
Area: 2457 km2
Density: 2812 km2
You can see that Taipei is not especially dense or crowded. Yet, does NY have to rely on scooters? I would say that Taipei’s smaller area also means the excuse of distance is even less salient. One hour or longer commutes are pretty common in most countries especially for people who live in the suburbs (where jobs are scare).
Interesting, greater New York is close to the population is all of Taiwan but with half the land area (Taiwan has an area of 36,191 km2).
I suppose we could repeat this with most big crowded urban areas around the world and find that as monkey says, no one has solved the crowding and transport problem by relying on scooters.
[quote=“touduke”]Can you imagine 30 cars parking outside each and every 7/11 at any given time of the day cause folks one block away just drove over to their 7 to buy a coke and cigarettes? I prefer 30 scooters.
Scooters are a ingrained part of todays Taiwanese lifestyle - replacing them with cars would be madness, and there are no buses going from everybody’s house to her or his 7/11.
As I see it, only foreigners and a few Taiwanese would favor a change of lifestyle, the rest is happy the way it is.[/quote]
Again, I think your understanding is limited as in not doing A means B?!? Strange logic.
Here’s some more stuff to chew on:
[quote]Toronto Board of Trade research on the average total commute time in major metros:
Dallas 53 minutes
Milan 53.4
Seattle 55.5
Boston 55.8
Los Angeles 56.1
San Francisco 57.4
Chicago 61.4
Berlin 63.2
Halifax 65
Sydney 66
Madrid 66.1
Calgary 67
Vancouver 67
New York 68.1
Stockholm 70
London 74
Montreal 76
Toronto 80[/quote]
They are a rarity these days. In the old days, they were everywhere and lungs burnt getting home. 
[quote=“touduke”]Can you imagine 30 cars parking outside each and every 7/11 at any given time of the day cause folks one block away just drove over to their 7 to buy a coke and cigarettes? I prefer 30 scooters.
Scooters are a ingrained part of todays Taiwanese lifestyle - replacing them with cars would be madness, and there are no buses going from everybody’s house to her or his 7/11.
As I see it, only foreigners and a few Taiwanese would favor a change of lifestyle, the rest is happy the way it is.[/quote]
I’m fine with the status quo. 
Yeah, but it takes him 30 minutes just to walk down the hill. He’s kind of old.
I don’t mind scooters; I just hate many of the habits of scooter drivers.
- Putterers.
- People who pass you on the right when you’re signalling a right turn.
- People who don’t look before backing their scooter into you as you walk on the sidewalk.
- People who won’t stay in the scooter lane when there’s plenty of room there.
People who drive along the sidewalk right behind you as you walk. I’m not getting out of your way.