This is somewhat relevant to Taiwanese politics as well, in terms of discussions about Taiwan as a potential tourist destination. I stayed not far from the Galeries Lafayette when I vacationed in Paris this summer, and definitely noticed the strong Chinese presence.
[quote=“cctang”]This is somewhat relevant to Taiwanese politics as well, in terms of discussions about Taiwan as a potential tourist destination. I stayed not far from the Galeries Lafayette when I vacationed in Paris this summer, and definitely noticed the strong Chinese presence.
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and of course there’s nothing more pleasant than a mainland chinese tour group…such polite people, so considerate…
This is a good thing. The population that understands that there is a world out there beyond what they see on CCTV the better.
Actually, not too bad. When I was in Paris, there were swarms of Chinese everywhere but most were quite well behaved. The fashion sense was er perhaps not Parisian and the propensity to take a lot of photos… well… but my understanding is that the Chinese are instructed how to behave by tourist leaders so as not to embarrass the nation. Not too loud. Not too obnoxious. No pushing. No spitting. Too bad, the Taiwanese, who at one time incredibly were banned from top hotels and who earned the reputation among flight attendants for being almost as bad as the Saudis, did not go through similar training 15 years ago. Now, flying in and out of Taiwan is completely civilized. Anyway, it is a learning curve. First, the Japanese were ridiculed, then it was Hong Kong and Singaporeans, then the Koreans and Taiwanese and now the Indians and Chinese all for the same bad habits. Before them it was the Americans and the Germans and ironically while the British used to set the standard for civil behavior, they now earn knocks on the head for drunken hooliganism. I know that I personally would rather sit next to Chinese on a long flight rather than a drunken lout from Leeds or Manchester or from the equivalent in Canada or America or even worse Australia or New Zealand.
Actually, not too bad. When I was in Paris, there were swarms of Chinese everywhere but most were quite well behaved. The fashion sense was er perhaps not Parisian and the propensity to take a lot of photos… well… but my understanding is that the Chinese are instructed how to behave by tourist leaders so as not to embarrass the nation. Not too loud. Not too obnoxious. No pushing. No spitting. Too bad, the Taiwanese, who at one time incredibly were banned from top hotels and who earned the reputation among flight attendants for being almost as bad as the Saudis, did not go through similar training 15 years ago. Now, flying in and out of Taiwan is completely civilized. Anyway, it is a learning curve. First, the Japanese were ridiculed, then it was Hong Kong and Singaporeans, then the Koreans and Taiwanese and now the Indians and Chinese all for the same bad habits. Before them it was the Americans and the Germans and ironically while the British used to set the standard for civil behavior, they now earn knocks on the head for drunken hooliganism. I know that I personally would rather sit next to Chinese on a long flight rather than a drunken lout from Leeds or Manchester or from the equivalent in Canada or America or even worse Australia or New Zealand. [/quote]
or worse yet an opinionated republican but fair play to them if they are giving them pep talks and such lets hope the curve is a steep one…i seem to have developed an antipathy to mainlanders outside of china for some reason…must be living too long in taiwan…
It could happen to YOU. haha
I think that the only problem stories I have heard about are the cheap packages to places like Thailand.
Well, I would surmise that you were not here 15 years ago when the Taiwanese were first flying. I have never seen such behavior in my life and even today (just returning from a flight from HK to Taipei on Cathay Pacific) there still is the propensity to demand compensation for every little thing. (in this case a one hour delay due to mechanical problems) Best thing that ever happened to them occurred about 10 years ago. The usual Taiwanese agitators were organizing a sit in on a Bangkok to Taipei flight to “protest” the disrespectful way that they were treated because the flight left about 40 minutes late. Why it always involved some noisy (probably unmarried woman in her 40s is beyond me with a quick reception from five or six men NONE over 50 of course. That generation was different) The pilot called the CEO (a good friend of mine), he told the pilot to turn the plane around. It returned to Bangkok. My understanding of it was that everyone that the stewardesses identified as being involved in the “potential hijacking” were kicked off the flight, their tickets cancelled and the flight resumed back to Taipei with a considerably cowed passenger pool. Amazingly, that was the end of the Taiwanese shakedown which had occurred about 50 times with increasing regularity with ever more money, tickets, etc. being demanded in compensation, which just goes to show: blustering bravado requires a strong, firm voice that does not “compromise” and wham, out of the sails goes that little wind. Previously, all efforts to compensate with food and soft drinks FOR A FLIGHT THAT WAS DELAYED even 30 minutes were met with an ever increasing litany of complaints and demands.
Ironically, at this time, the Taiwanese were the absolutely most uncivilized fliers that I had seen anywhere in the world. I have seen people climbing over other people’s seats to rush to the front of the plane to get to the duty free cart. I have seen people pulling luggage out of overhead compartments dropping them onto passenger heads as they raced to the front of the plane before it had even landed. I have seen flight attendants crying while trying to get them to board the plane in an orderly fashion. Ah, the good old days are very well gone. To date, I have seen NOTHING like that however from our mainland cousins so someone is doing a good job.
But like I said, all that is mostly in the past. And thank God for that. Now, flying in and out of Taiwan is a dream. The worst flights I have been on have been in the US (domestic). Why does EVERYONE need to bring on that same square maximum sized black tote? Obviously, if everyone does so, there is no room in the overhead compartments and it takes so much longer to get everyone on board. I think that all of these should be required to be checked in. Domestic flights usually have all luggage unloaded within 15 to 20 minutes anyway. And why lug all that shit around? Senseless.
Other than that, it is the drunks that are the worst and they are all Westerners with an occasional Japanese or Korean.
Yeah that can happen, but you gotta watch that or you’ll end up sounding as bitter and twisted as a red dog baying for Soong’s moon.
I was in Paris for a upper class wedding a few years back and fortunately among the very few phrases I can muster in French is parlez vous Chinois? (can you speak Chinese?). As effectively the best man I was busy traipsing all over the city running all kinds of errands and generally looking after the groom. It very much appalled the mother of the bride but basically i did Paris by speaking Chinese. The French are crap at directions, but the Chinese are always very specific.
As for the Taiwanese. I shared a train carriage with a Taiwanese tour group from Hangzhou to Shanghai in 1992. I could not believe their beahaviour. It really did reinforce in my mind at that time that the island was populated by the descendants of ruthless pirates.
By contrast, the mainlanders are a soft touch, that’s cetainly been the case in Europe and HK where the mainlanders are being fleeced hand over fist. Apparently the gypsies in Spain can’t believe their luck.
HG
I’ve seen all of that and more on mainland domestic flights. I’ve seen mainland passengers stealing life jackets (I think this was an old-generation Russian plane in which your seat is not a floation device) as souvenirs. I’ve certainly seen mainland Chinese pilots light up cigarettes on international flights. But so what? Being “crude” out of ignorance (for the lack of a better word) is not a moral flaw. If I was going up on the space shuttle, I’d probably steal something as a souvenir, too. I rarely am more impressed with someone because they’re wearing someone from Saville Row; nor am I likely to develop “antipathy” for someone because they dress poorly, or act “provincial”. Wait until they’ve been on a few planes. Things are improving today. Chinese flight attendents may not look it, but they are tough. They’re not shy at all about enforcing their commands; rushing to deboard the plane is something I used to see, but flight attendents are being vocal in terms of putting passengers in their place. Some of them remind me of the old fashioned ushers we used to have on trains, back in the planned economy days. We were terrified of the ushers.
The mainland Chinese tourists I saw were indeed respectful and well-behaved. It’s a little bit self-selective though, since most coming overseas at this point tends to be the wealthier class (obviously). We had fun exchanging thoughts about Western Europe compared to urban China. France compares reasonably well; Italy compares poorly.
I saw quite a few in Lafayette and in the Champs Elysees. The funniest part is that I went to Lafayette in sales time (my favourite shopping time) and the Chinese were all waiting in line in the LV shop. If you actually move upstairs, you will only find the rest of the tourist nationalities buying french designer clothing at a good price. Then we proceeded to Marques Avenue, where we made the bulk of our shopping (incredibly, there was a Japanese tour on it). My wife decided to buy her LV wallet in Luxembourg, where we where the only customer at the moment (costs about 2% more than in Paris, but the service is another thing). Also, the LV shop in Luxembourg is across the best ice cream shop I know outside Italy, so we have 2 good reasons to go to that place instead of waiting hours in Lafayette. But I still prefer to go do my shopping in Milano or Firenze.
Can someone explain to me why anyone would want a Louis Vuitton bag or anything else for that matter? I really do want to understand.
Anyway, if it helps the French with their balance of trade with China, then zut! alors! donc! so much the better…
[quote=“fred smith”]Can someone explain to me why anyone would want a Louis Vuitton bag or anything else for that matter? I really do want to understand.
Anyway, if it helps the French with their balance of trade with China, then zut! alors! donc! so much the better…[/quote]
its sad innit? LV is the unsexiest product ive ever seen…looks like something your grandma would carry the ration coupons in…
I’ve seen all of that and more on mainland domestic flights. I’ve seen mainland passengers stealing life jackets (I think this was an old-generation Russian plane in which your seat is not a floation device) as souvenirs. I’ve certainly seen mainland Chinese pilots light up cigarettes on international flights. But so what? Being “crude” out of ignorance (for the lack of a better word) is not a moral flaw. If I was going up on the space shuttle, I’d probably steal something as a souvenir, too. I rarely am more impressed with someone because they’re wearing someone from Saville Row; nor am I likely to develop “antipathy” for someone because they dress poorly, or act “provincial”. Wait until they’ve been on a few planes. Things are improving today. Chinese flight attendents may not look it, but they are tough. They’re not shy at all about enforcing their commands; rushing to deboard the plane is something I used to see, but flight attendents are being vocal in terms of putting passengers in their place. Some of them remind me of the old fashioned ushers we used to have on trains, back in the planned economy days. We were terrified of the ushers.
The mainland Chinese tourists I saw were indeed respectful and well-behaved. It’s a little bit self-selective though, since most coming overseas at this point tends to be the wealthier class (obviously). We had fun exchanging thoughts about Western Europe compared to urban China. France compares reasonably well; Italy compares poorly.[/quote]
I’m Ok with it as long as they don’t steal my newspaper or crush my suitbag. Other then that they can have at it. For some reason they zero-in on those two items.
I think the difference is that the Taiwanese are used to bullying service providers and officialdome whereas in China neither of those two will brook any BS
No excuse for the suitbag… but in mainland China at least, newspapers have always been shared! If you’re not reading a section, very common to share with your neighbors. Mainland Chinese are obsessive newspaper readers (although I guess that’s changing thanks to the internet). If you leave your newspaper lying around, someone will probably assume you’re done with it.
How about the Taiwanese? Are they obsessive newspaper readers?
My experience is mixed with the Mainland Chinese, but when I see them overseas or on planes I do take care to try to be friendly and helpful on the idea that the more positive experiences they have the more likely that will rub off on them. The only downside was the time I freaked out a PRC passenger seated next to me by speaking mandarin to him – it was a flight within Europe so he probably never expected to be seated next to someone who could speak a little.