If Ma Ying-jeou teamed up with Annette Lu

Er, AC, I know it’s hard for you to see anything clearly through eyes so gummed up with bigotry, but we’re talking about a potential pairing up of the 100% waishengren taro Ma Ying-jeou with the 100% benshengren sweet potato Vincent Siew. It’s an electoral winner for reasons that I’m sure even you don’t need to have spelt out.

Unless you despise the native Taiwanese so much that you consider none of them fit to stand for office alongside your messianic Chinese icon, it’s hard to see how you could take exception to including one of their own on his ticket to the presidency.

I thought everyone on Taiwan was Taiwanese. What’s with this distinction that some are 100% more authentic than others? A racist in denial is still a racist.

I think in countries with an abundant immigrant population, what you are referring to is a specific form of racial discrimination, known as the nativism.

So please enlighten me to why two families that emigrated from same place to the same god forsaken island, but only 400 hundred years apart, that one descendent can claim to be more authentic than the other.

The same argument exists in Australia, New Zealand, and the USA. Only their advocates are descendents of White immigrants.

How is my belief that the Hoklo supremacy movement and White supremacy movement both share common belief bigotry?

Funny ha ha! It’s you and your type who are making the distinctions and trying to sow the divisions with your anti-Taiwanese rants.

You’re the one who’s harping on about authenticity, in denying that the Taiwanese people have authentic rights to use their mother tongue and decide on their own national identity for themselves.

But it’s a waste of time to argue with your twisted logic and nonsense. A short rebuttal once in a while is more than enough of a response.

How about two families both arriving at the same time along with CKS, only one is from the Fujian province, the other not?

[quote=“Omniloquacious”]
Unless you despise the native Taiwanese so much that you consider none of them fit to stand for office[/quote]

Hmmmm…let me see. My former Secretary General mentor was a WSR with ties to the DPP and was an internationalist. All the old-time WSR officials never once broke their word to me and abided by every agreement they ever signed. In other words, they were 100% trustworthy (at least to me). However, every single other DPP political appointment (except for the WSR appointment )broke their word to me, acted with complete dishonor, and like an absolute Hoklo chauvinist.

Do I consider them fit to stand office? No, I believe Lee Teng Hui was spot on when he described them facists. 90 percent of them are. There is no way you can sugar coat this.

[quote=“JAS”]Every single DPP political appointment except for the WSR appointment broke their word to me and acted with dishonor and like a Hoklo chauvinist.

Do I consider them fit to stand office? No, I believe Lee Teng Hui was spot on when he described them as facists.[/quote]

Chewycorns! :laughing:

[quote=“Omniloquacious”][quote=“JAS”]Every single DPP political appointment except for the WSR appointment broke their word to me and acted with dishonor and like a Hoklo chauvinist.

Do I consider them fit to stand office? No, I believe Lee Teng Hui was spot on when he described them as facists.[/quote]

Chewycorns! :laughing:[/quote]

Ah…I see. Go after the person rather than addressing the issues at hand. I can see why you enjoy being the DPP’s “lapdog” or “poodle” so much.

How about two families both arriving at the same time along with CKS, only one is from the Fujian province, the other not?[/quote]
I know of one family from Fujian that arrived with CKS on Taiwan, their mother tongue is Minnan. They choose to identify with WSR because they seen too much nonsense from Hoklo racist. However, they can easily pass for BSR and are usually mistaken to be the “WSR lap dogs.”

Ah, but Chewycorns, I’ve worked for KMT and DPP administrations, have been treated very well by both, and know senior people in both parties for whom I have the highest regard.

I judge people on their individual merits, not their political affiliation or where they were born. That is why I am hoping for Ma to become the next president, and would be especially pleased if he had Siew as his vice president, but would also give the thumbs-up to Su as president, particularly if he had an outstanding VP like Tsai Ing-wen. On the other side of the coin, I thoroughly disapprove of Chen (notwithstanding that he was by far the best candidate in the last election), and would be horrified if Lien, Soong, Wang, Lu or any of their ilk were to worm their way into the presidency.

I want to see the best people running this country, and I don’t care whether they are green, blue, or any other colour, as long as I can trust them to act with Taiwan’s best interests at heart.

不管白貓黑貓,抓到老鼠就是好貓 (Doesn’t matter if a cat is black or white as long as it catches mice.) :laughing:

hG

[quote=“Omniloquacious”]Ah, but Chewycorns, I’ve worked for KMT and DPP administrations, have been treated very well by both, and know senior people in both parties for whom I have the highest regard.

I judge people on their individual merits, not their political affiliation or where they were born. That is why I am hoping for Ma to become the next president, and would be especially pleased if he had Siew as his vice president, but would also give the thumbs-up to Su as president, particularly if he had an outstanding VP like Tsai Ing-wen. On the other side of the coin, I thoroughly disapprove of Chen (notwithstanding that he was by far the best candidate in the last election), and would be horrified if Lien, Soong, Wang, Lu or any of their ilk were to worm their way into the presidency.

I want to see the best people running this country, and I don’t care whether they are green, blue, or any other colour, as long as I can trust them to act with Taiwan’s best interests at heart.[/quote]

The name dropping doesn’t impress me much Omni. Like Thomas Jefferson said a few centuries ago, I would rather be sitting in a cabin with a few close friends and some bourbon than being around city politicians, royalty, or other pretensious folk.

However, to match your flamboyant name-dropping style, I too have worked with senior people in both parties, met every foreign minister appointed by the DPP etc.—I even have a letter of recommendation from the Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs (who had such high esteem for my work during my two years of service under his leadership [before the Tainan people came in], he allowed me to write my own letter of recommendation before becoming Taiwan’s de-facto Ambassador in Paris and then Deputy Foreign Minister :smiley: ).

In the past I’ve agreed with you on many things and probably still do (truth be told). However, (and this is just my humble opinion), I think you are prone to flattery. In other words, have you worked with these senior KMT and DPP members up close and on a daily basis for many years? Or have you just rubbed shoulders at cocktail parties and/or official functions and seen them at their best? Furthermore, have you worked in a high-stress big-budget ministry (such as international development) where peoples’ true natures may be revealed during the long hours of work for all to see?

I, too, judge people by their individual merits, not their political affiliation. I still value friendships formed in my government years with people from all shades on the political spectrum. However, when foreigners are routinely exploited year after year in a particular ministry, when they are not offered the same job security as other officials, when verbal assurances are given and then reneged upon in direct contradiction to offical evaluations, when good people remain silent, when long-time “Chinese” workers are not punished for making big mistakes because of sexual ties and “guanxi”, I don’t think the best people are running the country. The simple fact is that in Chinese, Taiwanese, and other Asian cultures, the “best” people often do not enter politics. In fact, it is usually the opposite. This is especially true for Chen Shui-bian and his crony Tainan BSR appointments.

Even the good people you mention do not care too much about the “average workers” and are not new players on Taiwan’s political scene. Tsai Ing-Wen? With her LSE graduate degree in Law and her millions of dollars in personal stock, I don’t think she is too interested in helping out the grassroots of Taiwan.

Again, Lee Teng-hui is correct with his assessment of many people in the DPP don’t you think (with the exception of Tsai and a few others)? Racist facists. I am sure that some of the people you mingle with at the very top are great people. I, too, think there are some great people (the Deputy Foreign Minister being one) currently in government. However, till the end of my days, I will remain disappointed in the unprofessionalism, racism, and lack of honor evident in 90 percent of people in government in Taiwan. [u] It is the responsibility of those at the top to protect people, especially foreigners who produced results.

[color=blue]That is why I think Yu Shy-kun should be added to any DPP ticket in 2008. Because that is the accurate representation of what most Taiwanese actually are[/color]. I would say a Ma or Tsai is what they want to be.

But mate, he didn’t drop any names, not a one, you dropped the names in response. He also didn’t suggest the best were in power, he said he hoped for the best. :laughing:

It looks very much to me like selective intepretation so you could get another (justified) shot into that whorey old grievance you’ve been lugging for eons now?

C’mon, dude, it really is time to move on!

HG

[quote=“Huang Guang Chen”]But mate, he didn’t drop any names, not a one, you dropped the names in response. He also didn’t suggest the best were in power, he said he hoped for the best. :laughing:

It looks very much to me like selective intepretation so you could get another (justified) shot into that whorey old grievance you’ve been lugging for eons now?

C’mon, dude, it really is time to move on!

HG[/quote]

I have definitely moved on. :laughing: However, I definitely have not forgotten (especially considering their decision affected my Taiwanese family). There is a difference between the two you know. Any professional worth his/her salt will move on to bigger and better things. I certainly have and have learned more working with Taiwan’s best and brightest in the private sector than I could learn in 1000 years in government.

This thread is on the 2008 nominations. I guess my opinion could be best summarized as “90 percent of Taiwan’s political class is very rotten at the core (similar to the French political class).” I would trust and respect them about as much as a used-car salesman. Therefore, I am suprised at Omni’s respect for Ma, Su, Tsai, Siew and other potential 2008 nominees and [color=blue]longstanding members of Taiwan’s political establishment/scene[/color].

I apologize for bringing it up again. :smiling_imp: Although you do seem to have your own repetitive posts and hatreds (your hatred of John Howard for one :unamused: ). :wink:

Sorry mate, really didn’t mean to sound hard on this, it was meant as a very soft dig and I do also realise you have moved on.
And yes too, you are absolutely right, my hatred for Howard has not lessened a notch. I’m a political exile you know!

HG

Oh, for sure, politicians all over the world are more often than not dishonest and self-serving scoundrels! There are plenty of examples of that wherever one looks, and certainly not in Taiwan alone.

Nevertheless, here in Taiwan, it is generally the case that those appointed to the heads of government ministries and commissions are outstandingly capable technocrats and the best qualified people available to take up those positions. They are seldom politicians in any sense of the word, unlike those sorry specimens in the legislative branch of government. Typical examples are Hu Sheng-cheng (previously CEPD, now FSC), who chaired the Department of Economics at Purdue University in the US for 28 years before returning to Taiwan to serve his country, and Ho Mei-yueh, who worked her way up through the civil service (much like Vincent Siew) to become Minister of Economic Affairs and now Chairperson of the CEPD.

And don’t lose sight of the fact that everyone’s merits are relative - I don’t suppose there ever has been or ever will be anyone in the mortal world who is an absolute paragon of flawless perfection. Ma has his faults and weaknesses, sure enough, but he shines like a beacon in comparison with those who have recently run for high office on blue-hued tickets and/or are scheming to do so in Ma’s place in the 2008 elections. And that is more than enough to earn him my respect and thankful support.

Anyway, I’m glad to hear you’re thriving in the private sector, Chewy, and hope things will continue to pan out well for you.

[quote=“Omniloquacious”]

Nevertheless, here in Taiwan, it is generally the case that those appointed to the heads of government ministries and commissions are outstandingly capable technocrats and the best qualified people available to take up those positions. They are seldom politicians in any sense of the word, unlike those sorry specimens in the legislative branch of government. Typical examples are Hu Sheng-cheng (previously CEPD, now FSC), who chaired the Department of Economics at Purdue University in the US for 28 years before returning to Taiwan to serve his country, and Ho Mei-yueh, who worked her way up through the civil service (much like Vincent Siew) to become Minister of Economic Affairs and now Chairperson of the CEPD. [/quote]

You are absolutely right. Which is why after being led by a Yale-educated KMT Secretary General that worked for the World Bank for 30 years (Ping-Cheung Loh) and then by a DPP Secretary General (Yang Tzu-pao) with two PhDs from France and extensive private sector experience, many people within the development ministry were less than thrilled with the next SG appointment. The Policy and Planning Director appointment had no work experience prior to his appointment except as a political apparatchik for the DPP. Capable and technocrats are not two words than come to mind when it comes to CSB and his hangers on.

Funny thing was that I initially welcomed these new appointments, was always loyal to them during my period of employment, and initially believed that their appointments would infuse new blood in a pretty elitist ministry. However, my sentiments soon changed.

Thanks sir. I will say one thing. Working in such a Byzantine work environment, piling up 1000s of hours of unpaid overtime, and viewing, editing and/or writing three years worth of English-language international development correspondence between Taiwan and its allies and partners (including three annual reports) has made me able to face new work-place challenges in a confident manner. In other words, I don’t regret the experience–warts and all.

不管白貓黑貓,抓到老鼠就是好貓 (Doesn’t matter if a cat is black or white as long as it catches mice.) :laughing:

hG[/quote]
Commie sympathizer… :laughing:

[quote=“Huang Guang Chen”]不管白貓黑貓,抓到老鼠就是好貓 (Doesn’t matter if a cat is black or white as long as it catches mice.) :laughing:
hG[/quote]
Total tangent. But the original phrase spoken by Deng was: 不管黄猫黑猫,只要捉住老鼠就是好猫. (Yellow cat as opposed to white cat.) It’s a Sichuan saying. It didn’t follow the reform era as many assume. He had used it repeatedly when speaking of economic reforms since 1962. I’m sure that’s part of the reason he was targeted during the Cultural Revolution.

Carry on.

[quote=“cctang”][quote=“Huang Guang Chen”]不管白貓黑貓,抓到老鼠就是好貓 (Doesn’t matter if a cat is black or white as long as it catches mice.) :laughing:
hG[/quote]
Total tangent. But the original phrase spoken by Deng was: 不管黄猫黑猫,只要捉住老鼠就是好猫. (Yellow cat as opposed to white cat.) It’s a Sichuan saying. It didn’t follow the reform era as many assume. He had used it repeatedly when speaking of economic reforms since 1962. I’m sure that’s part of the reason he was targeted during the Cultural Revolution.

Carry on.[/quote]

counter revolutionary intellectual class… :laughing:

Yeah we can start the Bai Ming Dang.

Real clean, no history of money politics.[/quote]

That’s because there’s no history of money, at least on my side. Of course, that’s why I didn’t run in 2004.[/quote]

Well that makes two of us. We’d bee pushing to raise applicaiton fees lol.

I only became elegible this year to run for Presidency. We could get the Tavern Captain to bank roll us perhaps? Or put out the hat around Forumosa hehehehe.[/quote]

While I was eligible to run for other public offices in 2004, I just realized that you also have to be at least 40 to run for president, and I won’t be for another few years. Maybe 2012, if there are any more elections after this one that is.