http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/archives/2010/02/25/2003466579
Gotta love it when laws are changed and not a single ad campaign or attempt at informing the public is done. Even worse, despite there being this law regarding chin cups and helmet spec standards (it actually exists), the public seems to only get fined for not wearing a helmet at all instead of also being liable in case the helmet does not meet the standard spec. :loco:
Without a chin cup he wouldn’t have had a chin anymore …
Taiwan doesn’t really have ‘laws.’
They have ‘suggestions.’
[quote=“Captain Stag”]http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/archives/2010/02/25/2003466579
Gotta love it when laws are changed and not a single ad campaign or attempt at informing the public is done. Even worse, despite there being this law regarding chin cups and helmet spec standards (it actually exists), the public seems to only get fined for not wearing a helmet at all instead of also being liable in case the helmet does not meet the standard spec. :loco:[/quote]
Doesn’t surprise me at all.
Cop does a quick visual scan of riders passing through intersection for either hair or plastic on head. Easy.
Cop pulls all of them over and checks the CNS sticker on each one to see it’s up to date. Mafan.
They are there to generate revenue in a reasonably efficient manner and with the least amount of effort.
Also, I wonder how many cops would wear a helmet themselves if they weren’t forced to. Out in the countryside I still see cops on scooters with no helmets. I wonder how many cops simply don’t enforce laws they themselves think are pointless. 
Consumers shouldn’t be penalized for the illegal mistakes that manufacturers make. The people who make and sell illegal helmets should be corrected.
The job of policemen is not to check whether the possessions of each individual conforms to standards. They could fill up their entire work day everyday by preoccupying themselves with helmet sticker checking or checking if mattresses and blankets have been stuffed with dirty, recycled cotton, but does that really improve social order?
Sorry, I don’t get it. How exactly are those chin cups a threat? It’s soft plastic. How does that cause massive stitches?
[quote=“lupillus”]Consumers shouldn’t be penalized for the illegal mistakes that manufacturers make. The people who make and sell illegal helmets should be corrected.
The job of policemen is not to check whether the possessions of each individual conforms to standards. They could fill up their entire work day everyday by preoccupying themselves with helmet sticker checking or checking if mattresses and blankets have been stuffed with dirty, recycled cotton, but does that really improve social order?[/quote]
This is not how it works in other countries. Manufacturers not are obliged to educate their customers. Helmets are sold with various certifications. Those which are toys and not tested to any safety specs have to be marked as toys, not for road or track use. There are helmets for motorsports use which don’t conform to standards required for road use, and in some countries they are required to be marked ‘not for road use’ or similar.
In most countries a change in the legally required safety standard for equipment like this would first be negotiated with the manufacturers, who will request a phase-in period during which they could change their product to meet the upcoming standards and of course move their inventory of the current product. It is not and should never be illegal for the manufacturer to sell something that doesn’t comply with the latest standards. Old inventory is out there in the stores and in warehouses. It is up to the consumer to educate himself what the requirements are, ignorance of the law not being a defense, etc. etc.
I believe it is negligent of the government to change the standard without making an effort to inform the public of this fact. Retailers in particular should be aware of the changes so they may inform their customers of the risks they are taking when buying an earlier spec helmet, in both the safety and legal sense.
Considering the fact that most scooter pilots don’t even do the straps up in the first place, it’s rather a moot point.
Sure, but it’s not like people often wear helmets that are toy helmets. Most bought those half helmets with chin cups, and they were government certified as helmets for road use. But people who bought legal helmets (at the time) for the correct purpose still should be the ones that are fined? Still seems kind of unreasonable to me.
[quote=“lupillus”][quote=“redwagon”]
This is not how it works in other countries. Manufacturers not are obliged to educate their customers. Helmets are sold with various certifications. Those which are toys and not tested to any safety specs have to be marked as toys, not for road or track use. There are helmets for motorsports use which don’t conform to standards required for road use, and in some countries they are required to be marked ‘not for road use’ or similar.
[/quote]
Sure, but it’s not like people often wear helmets that are toy helmets. Most bought those half helmets with chin cups, and they were government certified as helmets for road use. But people who bought legal helmets (at the time) for the correct purpose still should be the ones that are fined? Still seems kind of unreasonable to me.[/quote]
Despite the lack of any attempt to inform the public about the changes in the laws, it would still fall on the responsibility of the road users. Is it unfair? Yes. Is it possible for the govt to amend laws without informing the public? Yes. Should it be legal? No (IMO). Especially where it’s a change with the pretext of road user safety.
It is always the road user’s (license holder) responsibility to be familiar with his vehicle’s correct operation as well as the legality and application of any equipment used in relation to its operation. Try saying “Sorry, I didn’t know about that” to a cop in most countries. Their answer would be along the lines of “It’s too bad you didn’t know about this, but unfortunately for you it’s against the law. Here’s your ticket”.
[quote=“lupillus”]
Sure, but it’s not like people often wear helmets that are toy helmets. Most bought those half helmets with chin cups, and they were government certified as helmets for road use. But people who bought legal helmets (at the time) for the correct purpose still should be the ones that are fined? Still seems kind of unreasonable to me.[/quote]
In most developed countries there will be some attempt by the government to inform the public that products conforming to the outgoing standard are going to illegal from a certain date. In the case of a motorcycle helmet they will put ads in specialist magazines for this purpose because bikers tend to be enthusiasts first and commuters second. I realize that is not the case in Taiwan, and so should the government. Seeing how starved the newsy shows here are for real, actual news I would imagine they would be glad to have some real content to air for a change.
Yes it’s unreasonable that you can buy a helmet one week and it’s all legal and the next week it’s illegal and you can be fined for using it. Blame the lack of communication from the government on change. They should have been communicating this message to vendors and public alike, six months ago.
BTW, the real problem with chin-cups is that they do not keep a helmet on your head in a crash. Try it. Have your friend put the helmet on and tighten the strap to the limit of comfort. Then put one finger on the back of the cup and pull forward. The cup slips right off. The government made the correct change to the requirements, but for the wrong reason.
if you think of your head as being very imp to you then frankly speaking there is no need for the government to point out that the chin cup helmets, toy helmets etc are dangerous. even if the government certified them I would still not use them…
i am a strong advocate of the full face helmet and wear one come rain or shine…
coming back to the topic of discussion i would say it is wrong for the government to first certifty them and then say they are illegal…also doing so without even a single ad or any sort of public announcement etc…the cops who do take the mafan of stopping you and giving you a ticket for the chin cup helmet will see a substantial increase in their bonuses since nearly over 50% of the public don’t know these helmets are illegal and nearly over 50% of the public are using such helmets…it would be much easier for the cops to make money from this as comapred to giving you a ticket for making an illegal right turn!!!
by the way most of the scooty cops are still using the chin cup helmets…
[quote=“speed_maniac”]if you think of your head as being very imp to you then frankly speaking there is no need for the government to point out that the chin cup helmets, toy helmets etc are dangerous. even if the government certified them I would still not use them…
I am a strong advocate of the full face helmet and wear one come rain or shine…
[/quote]
I agree with you there and same regarding flip flops.
My wife would disagree with us both until about 2 week’s ago.
She still get dizzyy so she is going to a CT scan today.
Other than that she got a cut abow the eye and the whole eye was quite blue.
She lost some skinn on her feet where she should have shoes.
Luckely she was wearing my leather jacket because it was cold.
Whant I find funny is thinking of how mouch resorces they spendt on N1H1, Sars and birdflue and how many people died because of this? How many people die on roads in Taiwan every year because of no helmet or wrong helmet or not using seat belts?
If the Taiwanese government really decided to crack down on chin cups (bowl helmets), then how would the Taiwanese be able to smoke and spit betel nut loogies while riding their scoots?
The Darwinians among us would say “not enough, unfortunately”.
The Darwinians among us would say “not enough, unfortunately, before reproducing”.[/quote]
Fixed that for ya. 
So, standards should never improve or be updated? Standards for motorcycle helmets have been revised and improved several times in the few decades I’ve been riding motorcycles.
No chin cups …? People don’t even tie up the strap, they are just hanging loose or aren’t tied up tied enough … oh, and flip-flop-fonzy doesn’t do it for sure, let alone on the skullcap types …
Are they going to crack down on shops still selling those ridiculous pieces of 100NT kit?
IF it is a standard then for sure it should be improved and updated…in present times the chin cup cannot be classified as a standard and they should never have certified it in the first place to begin with!!!
Crack down on them? Unless they are misrepresenting non-standard items as meeting current standards for road use I don’t think the sellers are breaking any laws at all.
What’s that old saying, “if you have a two-dollar head then buy a two-dollar hat”? Right on the money I’d say. I don’t have much sympathy for anyone who thinks NT$100 is going to buy them sufficient protection. :loco: