I'm glad many Taiwanese are still learning other languages

[color=#0000FF]Mod’s note: This was split from [url=http://tw.forumosa.com/t/arriving-in-july-looking-for-advice-and-tips/57864/1 thread[/url][/color]

I hope in the future it will still be very useful to learn other languages than English! I’m glad many Taiwanese are still learning other European languages, Korean or Japanese, and contrary to English (which they are forced to learn) they show lots of interest in these languages, because it’s obviously their choice, and out of curiosity, it brings a culture and a different vision of things, something they would never get somewhere else.
Even if in France, you speak English with a French guy, you will never have the same contact as if you were speaking French. Same here in Taipei (’‘Chinatown’’ lol!), if I didn’t know Mandarin, I would miss 95 percent of the things to discover.

Languages and cultures are something we need to cherish if we don’t want to become like these shallow uni-lingual north-americans :stuck_out_tongue:

[quote=“JFP”]I hope in the future it will still be very useful to learn other languages than English! I’m glad many Taiwanese are still learning other European languages, Korean or Japanese, and contrary to English (which they are forced to learn) they show lots of interest in these languages, because it’s obviously their choice, and out of curiosity, it brings a culture and a different vision of things, something they would never get somewhere else.
Even if in France, you speak English with a French guy, you will never have the same contact as if you were speaking French. Same here in Taipei (’‘Chinatown’’ lol!), if I didn’t know Mandarin, I would miss 95 percent of the things to discover.

Languages, history and culture are something we need to cherish if we don’t want to become like these shallow uni-lingual north-americans :p[/quote]
French military jokes aside, I agree with these sentiments. Which is one thing I love about South Africa, where people are generally encouraged to maintain and cherish their home language (be that Afrikaans, Italian, Portuguese, Zulu, Xhosa or whatever). It’s a pity that in Taiwan SE Asian brides aren’t encouraged to teach and speak their home language with their kids.
But let’s face it, very very few Taiwanese (Far East Asians in general, from my experience) seem linguistically talented. And I’ve seen more than a few that “proudly” study Spanish, French or German and speak it even worse than the average student who has been studying English all through school and uni (and that’s saying a lot!). Could be related to teaching methodology, lack of speaking and listening practice or whatever other reasons, but I don’t think there’s much of a danger of Taiwan being flooded with second (third or fourth) language Spanish, French or German speakers… :2cents:

[quote]
I hope in the future it will still be very useful to learn other languages than English! I’m glad many Taiwanese are still learning other European languages, Korean or Japanese, and contrary to English (which they are forced to learn) they show lots of interest in these languages, because it’s obviously their choice, and out of curiosity, it brings a culture and a different vision of things, something they would never get somewhere else.
Even if in France, you speak English with a French guy, you will never have the same contact as if you were speaking French. Same here in Taipei (’‘Chinatown’’ lol!), if I didn’t know Mandarin, I would miss 95 percent of the things to discover.

Languages and cultures are something we need to cherish if we don’t want to become like these shallow uni-lingual north-americans [/quote]

Kids learn English because it gives them a competitive advantage in the school system and later in the workplace. Furthermore they aren’t capaple of choosing any language to learn as they are children. I think it’s wonderful that Taiwanese folks are mad about Language learning. I encounter many studying various different languages, but that is a hobby. Most will never actually getting a working knowledge of any of these other languages due to the fact that they only study a few hours per week and don’t have the opportunity to use it here in Taiwan. I don’t think I would have made much progress at all studying Mandarin back in my hometown.

North Americans are not uni-lingual and we do cherish many cultures. Canada has 2 official languages and Toronto is the most culturally diverse city on the planet with over 140 languages/dialects being spoken.

You are being proud of multiculturalism, but it’s precisely this multiculturalism that negates cultures, it pushes different cultures against each-other. It turn colorful cultures into a grey sub-culture. Look at ABCs or CBCs, except their skin, they have almost nothing in common with Chinese or Taiwanese people. They are plain Americans or Canadians, with the exact same cultural reflexes as any other American or Canadian.

ps: I have visited Toronto, despite the facts people are shallow there too, it’s a real nice city!

In France, 20 years ago, knowing English was a considered as an advantage, now, not knowing English is considered as a disadvantage.
English is becoming less a subject to competition and more a prerequisite. Billions of people speak an OK English, being able to speak English became so obvious that less and less people takes it as a criteria for competition ; in other words, it doesn’t make the difference.
Now the extra-value, the real advantage over others, is not knowing English, but for instance knowing a European or Asian language, languages that will give you direct contact with the locals.

小王: Hello, how are you today?
美英: 哇! 小王,你會說英文,你好厲害!!!

riiiiiiight… :ponder: Speaking English is like walking, who cares?! :eh:

This reminds me of Russell Peter’s last stand-up comedy. For those of you who don’t know him, he’s a Canadian guy with Indian background. He said something like

“I was finally going to India, the motherland! I felt so Indian, so proud, I wanted to teach Indians how to be Indian! Then, they opened the plane, and boy… I turned Canadian so fast!”

Then he goes on to describe how the place smelled like shit, Indian men had girly attitudes, etc. Pretty funny stuff.

So, all that just to say that many people feel they belong to a place and talk shite about it when they have often never set foot in said place and are just as good as any foreigner.

Spending time in places like Penang proves otherwise.

chinapost.com.tw/taiwan/loca … r-3000.htm

protests against MORE english

[quote=“whitetiger”]
Kids learn English because it gives them a competitive advantage in the school system and later in the workplace. Furthermore they aren’t capaple of choosing any language to learn as they are children. I think it’s wonderful that Taiwanese folks are mad about Language learning. I encounter many studying various different languages, but that is a hobby. Most will never actually getting a working knowledge of any of these other languages due to the fact that they only study a few hours per week and don’t have the opportunity to use it here in Taiwan. I don’t think I would have made much progress at all studying Mandarin back in my hometown.

North Americans are not uni-lingual and we do cherish many cultures. Canada has 2 official languages and Toronto is the most culturally diverse city on the planet with over 140 languages/dialects being spoken.[/quote]

Is Toronto really the most culturally diverse? I thought it was New York. The Lost Languages, Found in New York

That aside, the idea that Canada, Mexico or the US is “uni-lingual” is silly. All three countries are part and parcel of the amalgamation of immigrants who came, their cultures and their languages.

I have a few colleagues who were hired because they majored in French/German/Spanish and we thought it a good idea to communicate with our customers/suppliers in their mothertongue. :laughing: :laughing:

Complete and utter chaos, so we’re all back on English.

[quote=“Anubis”]I have a few colleagues who were hired because they majored in French/German/Spanish and we thought it a good idea to communicate with our customers/suppliers in their mothertongue. :laughing: :laughing:

Complete and utter chaos, so we’re all back on English.[/quote]

yap, we have the same, 2 fluent german speakers, one specialist and one admin, but discourage the use of german since if one of those people is off “we can’t guarantee a response”… basically means they don’t want anyone having a greater bond with customers than the boss who they are representing and everyone remains disposable

Same with spanish, now they make sure that accounts go to people who don’t speak that language, ie, a disadvantage for learning another language

I would also dispute what JFP is saying, I agree up to the point where not speaking english is now a disadvantage, but I think now that JUST speaking English is no longer acceptable, it is assumed to be good and there needs to be an underlying skill - like “business” “marketing” or “technical specialist” - but actually this is Taiwan running before they can walk, most people seems to have shaky english at best and zero to no confidence speaking and they should still focus on more english then train them in marketing/finance/…, in fact, how about making the girls do a compulsory year of immersion english teaching in lieu of the military service the boys do - maybe this would help many get over the fear factor?

The protests aren’t really against English. The protests are against the plans by Taipei County Government (and now the Taipei City Government) to increase the course loads of students and teachers (without providing teachers with extra pay to compensate, of course), to change Wednesday afternoons from a time that young students traditionally have off from school to class time, and to push primary school English classes further away from the realm of spoken English and more toward the traditional approach of memorize written vocabulary lists, test, and forget.

The proposals also violate guidelines by the Ministry of Education. But since the central government and the governments of Taipei city and county are all controlled by the same party, it won’t be surprising if somehow things get changed.

If the Taipei city and county governments really wanted to help, they could start by halving the size of language classes, which can now reach up to 35 students. And they could have classes aimed at different levels of English rather than grouping everyone together regardless of whether they already speak English well or if they don’t even know the alphabet. And they could push schools to work more on helping slower students catch up than to have teachers devote their time to training a mere handful of students to perform in county-wide exams. Etc., etc.

But all this is probably mainly about Taipei County Magistrate Zhou Xiwei trying to look like he bothered to accomplish something, anything during his many years in office.

Hell, I’m happy enough with all the new bike paths and riverside parks.

[quote=“Anubis”]I have a few colleagues who were hired because they majored in French/German/Spanish and we thought it a good idea to communicate with our customers/suppliers in their mothertongue. :laughing: :laughing:

Complete and utter chaos, so we’re all back on English.[/quote]

There is no way that most people can really learn to speak German etc with only four years of university classes in your own country.

[quote]In France, 20 years ago, knowing English was a considered as an advantage, now, not knowing English is considered as a disadvantage.
[/quote]

So nothing has changed.

[quote]Is Toronto really the most culturally diverse? I thought it was New York. The Lost Languages, Found in New York
[/quote]

Yes it is, not because of the number of languages, but because 50% of the population is foreign-born.

Let’s not exaggerate, having good English is essential for many business roles and gives a powerful advantage for some candidates over others. It doesn’t get you to the top of the tree but gives you a niche alright in non-native speaking English countries. Having another language is important too, but so is having another technical skill.
It is good that Taiwanese are learning languages such as Korean, Japanese and Spanish. Many just learn for fun or too meet foreigners though.

[quote=“headhonchoII”]Let’s not exaggerate, having good English is essential for many business roles and gives a powerful advantage for some candidates over others. It doesn’t get you to the top of the tree but gives you a niche alright in non-native speaking English countries. Having another language is important too, but so is having another technical skill.
It is good that Taiwanese are learning languages such as Korean, Japanese and Spanish. Many just learn for fun or too meet foreigners though.[/quote]
Nothing wrong with that. I initially started studying Chinese to talk to girls at the pub. Now I can chat to my mum-in-law. :slight_smile: Who is a gem, btw…

[quote=“steelersman”][quote=“Anubis”]I have a few colleagues who were hired because they majored in French/German/Spanish and we thought it a good idea to communicate with our customers/suppliers in their mothertongue. :laughing: :laughing:

Complete and utter chaos, so we’re all back on English.[/quote]

There is no way that most people can really learn to speak German etc with only four years of university classes in your own country.[/quote]

Yes, you and I know that. But try to tell the interview/hiring panel that when they are convinced of the opposite.

:astonished: That has to take QUITE some level of ignorance to achieve, I’d have thought!

[quote=“whitetiger”][quote]In France, 20 years ago, knowing English was a considered as an advantage, now, not knowing English is considered as a disadvantage.
[/quote]

So nothing has changed.

[/quote]

In France, 20 years ago, not knowing English was not considered as a disadvantage.

Learn English.