Breaking News. More jackbooted thuggery from our good friends The KMT.
wow, did they have a warrant?
Just saw a video of it and it appears to be the hotel manager and security asking unregistered guests who were in a hotel room to leave. The room was registered to one of the activists but he/she wasn’t present.
Yeah right. Breaking down doors in the middle of thd day when guests are allowed?
Sorry, is there a place we can vote for Stupidest Thread Title Ever?
Does the SS in “Taiwan SS” stand for Secret Service, Schutzstaffeln, Self-Service, or Silly Sausage?
Indeed.
I edited the title to something not quite as.
Silly sausage!
Back to the conjecture.
Indeed.
I edited the title to something not quite as.
Silly sausage!
Back to the conjecture.[/quote]
Many heartfelt thanks for your much-more-than-due diligence sir!!!
But, sorry, to whence should one hie, then, for reasonable discussions regarding frivolous tube steakian activity??
Either Temp or Fun & Games.
Fine line, I know.
[quote=“TheGingerMan”]Either Temp or Fun & Games.
Fine line, I know.[/quote]
Your escutcheon, good sir, remains unsullied. 
To be fair, I’d just read Sandman’s opinion on facebook prior to creating the thread. I guess I was motivated to wax hyperbolaically???
Could be worse.
Usually the only thing he motivates people to do is get shitfaced drunk in the middle of the day and go down to the corner to yell at the city buses.
Not that, you know, there’s anything terribly wrong with that…
Could be worse.
Usually the only thing he motivates people to do is get shitfaced drunk in the middle of the day and go down to the corner to yell at the city buses.
Not that, you know, there’s anything terribly wrong with that…[/quote]
That’s today’s plan.
While I can understand being upset by the way this was handled, I also have to sympathize with the Novotel Hotel’s management being upset that the protesters were planning to hang banners out the windows of the building. If it was my hotel, I wouldn’t want any guests turning the building into the site of a highly-visible political protest regardless of whether or not I agreed with their political position.
For those of you who don’t see it that way, I have to ask: would you feel the same if it was your hotel and gangster Chang An-le (張安樂) (leader of the Unification Party and ex-Bamboo Union leader) rented a room and then hung protest banners outside the windows saying “Love Ma Ying-jeou and China, support reunification now!” Ask yourself if you - as a potential guest - would be willing to stay at that hotel if such banners were hanging from the windows? Or would you angrily leave and go stay someplace else?
My suggestion to the Sunflower folks would be to have their protests on the streets, the parks, in front of the Presidential Palace or Legislative Yuan - in other words, in public space. But don’t drag unwilling private businesses into your political agenda. Unless, of course, you just want to lose public support for your cause.
[quote=“Dog’s_Breakfast”]While I can understand being upset by the way this was handled, I also have to sympathize with the Novotel Hotel’s management being upset that the protesters were planning to hang banners out the windows of the building. If it was my hotel, I wouldn’t want any guests turning the building into the site of a highly-visible political protest regardless of whether or not I agreed with their political position.
For those of you who don’t see it that way, I have to ask: would you feel the same if it was your hotel and gangster Chang An-le (張安樂) (leader of the Unification Party and ex-Bamboo Union leader) rented a room and then hung protest banners outside the windows saying “Love Ma Ying-jeou and China, support reunification now!” Ask yourself if you - as a potential guest - would be willing to stay at that hotel if such banners were hanging from the windows? Or would you angrily leave and go stay someplace else?
My suggestion to the Sunflower folks would be to have their protests on the streets, the parks, in front of the Presidential Palace or Legislative Yuan - in other words, in public space. But don’t drag unwilling private businesses into your political agenda. Unless, of course, you just want to lose public support for your cause.[/quote]
Absolutely.
The hotel is private property. They have rules about occupancy, and I’m sure there are rules about hanging things outside their windows as well. When you choose to stay there, you implicitly agree to abide by those rules. If in violation, ownership has every right to ask you to leave or ask you to open the door for an inspection if there is suspicion of violation of hotel policy. They were asked to open the door, they refused, the police were called. After repeatedly refusing to submit to hotel policy (refusing to open the door), they forced the door open.
There is ridiculous notion that “free speech” means you can say or do whatever you want even on private property. Nope.
[quote=“Dog’s_Breakfast”]While I can understand being upset by the way this was handled, I also have to sympathize with the Novotel Hotel’s management being upset that the protesters were planning to hang banners out the windows of the building. If it was my hotel, I wouldn’t want any guests turning the building into the site of a highly-visible political protest regardless of whether or not I agreed with their political position.
[/quote]
they already knew it would be a site of highly-visible political protest when they agreed to host the Chinese politicians.
[quote=“hansioux”][quote=“Dog’s_Breakfast”]While I can understand being upset by the way this was handled, I also have to sympathize with the Novotel Hotel’s management being upset that the protesters were planning to hang banners out the windows of the building. If it was my hotel, I wouldn’t want any guests turning the building into the site of a highly-visible political protest regardless of whether or not I agreed with their political position.
[/quote]
they already knew it would be a site of highly-visible political protest when they agreed to host the Chinese politicians.[/quote]
Were the politicians staying there? I haven’t seen that reported.
Even if that’s the case, there is clearly a big difference between a peaceful protest held outside the establishment and tenants hanging things up on private property.
They had a meeting there.
It bothers me more than anything that the police were there (going back on statements I made earlier on Facebook where I complained because I thought the police were not there). Their presence standing behind the hotel staff basically is evidence that the authorities were behind this, not just the hotel. It looks very possible that national security/police forces put pressure on the hotel to take action. If you look at the video of the guys trying to break down the door (the one taken by police or hotel staff), the manager gives several uncomfortable laughs which look to me kind of like: “Sorry this is taking so long guys. Who knew these doors were break-in resistant, amirite? But we’ll have your thought criminals soon.”
[quote=“Hokwongwei”]They had a meeting there.
It bothers me more than anything that the police were there (going back on statements I made earlier on Facebook where I complained because I thought the police were not there). Their presence standing behind the hotel staff basically is evidence that the authorities were behind this, not just the hotel. It looks very possible that national security/police forces put pressure on the hotel to take action. If you look at the video of the guys trying to break down the door (the one taken by police or hotel staff), the manager gives several uncomfortable laughs which look to me kind of like: “Sorry this is taking so long guys. Who knew these doors were break-in resistant, amirite? But we’ll have your thought criminals soon.”[/quote]
Yeah that’s my feelings too. The problem when anyone starts to invoke rule of law, and blah blah private property, is that the law favors the powerful in very unequal ways. The police, politicians, and criminal gangs use the cover of the law, and the enforcement machine, to push through their agenda and when people protest. often yes they have to engage in behavior that is technically outside the law.
Dog makes the facile comparison of how would we feel if Chang An-lo was protesting. I suppose he forgets that Chang did protest, illegally at the Sunflower Movement, and the police and city government pretended he didn’t, with the ludicrous excuse that he was merely passing by (for 4 hours). I know I felt extremely angry that his behavior was deemed legal while the students were painted as anarchists and dangers to society. I am sure Taiwanguy would respond, but if the police say his behavior was not illegal then it wasn’t.
Now I wouldn’t necessarily want to be in a hotel that was the site of a protest, but then again, I consider protest a legitimate and healthy part of a democratic system and accept that sometimes my poor widdle self will be inconvenienced by it. And even if the hotel has to right to evict people after they have hung banners, I know where my sympathy still lies.
I think in most countries a hotel would be ashamed to host an representative of an enemy state that is currently engaged in a long-term annexation strategy, and most citizens would look at someone who invokes the sacred rights of private property owners as a crank.
[quote=“Hokwongwei”]They had a meeting there.
It bothers me more than anything that the police were there (going back on statements I made earlier on Facebook where I complained because I thought the police were not there). Their presence standing behind the hotel staff basically is evidence that the authorities were behind this, not just the hotel. It looks very possible that national security/police forces put pressure on the hotel to take action. If you look at the video of the guys trying to break down the door (the one taken by police or hotel staff), the manager gives several uncomfortable laughs which look to me kind of like: “Sorry this is taking so long guys. Who knew these doors were break-in resistant, amirite? But we’ll have your thought criminals soon.”[/quote]
I have watched most of these videos, and I have seen nothing of the sort. I’m not even sure the police were there. I’ve heard people say that, but I haven’t seen any video evidence…and have seen no report saying so.
Even if they were though, the police being there is not evidence that the authorities were “behind” this. Private businesses call the police in all the time when they feel someone on their property is not cooperating with the rules of their establishment. The foreign owner (manager?) of the hotel (sounded like he was French), entered into the room after the door was opened and politely asked “Are you registered to stay in my hotel?” Some of them answered no, and he responded, “Then please leave,” and showed them the door. He looked peeved at the guests, not as if he was being pressured by “authorities” to do so.
This is all quite simple. The hotel has rules. You don’t obey them, you are asked to leave. When you fail to open the door after being asked to, the door is forcefully opened. This would have been a non-issue if they would have just opened the door when the hotel staff asked them to and then complied with hotel regulations. There are lobbies and meeting rooms in hotels were non-registered guests can come to talk, but it is common practice world-wide for hotels to not allowed unregistered guests into the guest rooms.