Things will change… you will bend to their will or they will crush you… you will be eaten alive… plain and simple… bet 5000+++ years of tradition on it! 
As I understand it, at least its easier then a foreign girl marrying a TW boy (especially an only child) . Dont worry so much, eventually they will want to get rid of her. IS she under 30 ? Past 30 they start to panic if she doesnt have a BF. Just hang onto her and make sure you got HER.
My ex GF’s parents liked me just fine, it was her that became a problem, not them.
I think they have already told you what the problem is. They love their daughter and don’t want to lose her. Just a few decades ago, women who married foreigners and left Taiwan often never came back again. Maybe MIL knows someone like that?
In any event, if she is the one and is committed to you, get married in the UK and stay there. This is actually a good test of how important you are to her. If she chooses to go back to Taiwan rather than stay with you, she’s just not that serious about your relationship.
But you can help out her relationship with her family (and yours) by making sure she goes back to Taiwan frequently for visits and having them come see her (as inconvenient as this may be for you). This will help allay their fears that they are losing their daughter.
Most Taiwanese are very flexible out things like this despite a flair for the dramatic. Once they see that their daughter is happy and being taken care of, they will come on board. The grandchildren will also help a great deal. Make sure that if the MIL wants to comes over to do the traditional month of daughter care after a birth that she is able to do so. This will be a very big deal to both of them.
While I have met a few happy exceptions, the most miserable subclass of foreigners I have met in Taiwan are those who moved here to follow a spouse. I think Taiwan is a great place to live, but I wanted to come here, and it took a number of years for me to see Taiwan’s good side. If you come here, you will be dependent, underemployed, and dealing with a vastly different society and culture that is still transitioning from being a developing country to a developed one. That puts a lot of strain on a relationship and can lead the foreign spouse to wondering why they ever came to what seems to them like a hellhole.
If you do come, start learning Chinese in a university program right away. Otherwise you won’t.
Good luck!
Estebeverde:
I have literally kowtowed to my wife’s parents. (When I say “literally” I mean actual, physical prostration.) My wife asked me to do this at our wedding. It’s a traditional ritual gesture of gratitude to her parents for having had her and raised her, then entrusted her to me. Seemed reasonable enough, all things considered.
EDIT: Whoops, I mis-remembered. Not a kowtow, but an ordinary half-bow (or was it three?). All that Tibetan Buddhist prostration must have gone to my head.
Tomas:
My mother-in-law calls me “adogah.” (For my part, I’ve referred to her before as Godzilla.) But she likes me. She’s just a bit gruff, like a drill sergeant.
The only thing which really matters is the relationship t your GF. If it is very strong and you are heading towards eventual marriage, then well, you will then need yto worry about all the rest.
The secondary issue is where your GF wants to stay, however I would only start to worry about that, once it was established that your GF is your life partner.
If you move to Taiwan, remember that it’s not a good idea to live too close to your inlaws.
I don’t have an opinion on the parents in law situation, luckily my wifes family are cool despite the language barrier. But have you considered working in other more westernized Asian countries such as Singapore or Hong Kong where language wouldn’t be so much of a problem for your work and are still closer than the the UK for visits?
[quote=“riggers”]Hi, I have read through a lot of the posts here but would appreciate some advice. I live in England with my Taiwanese gf, we have been together 3 years, and are happy. Her family are , i shall say politely, fairly hard work. They have many problems with us being together, ranging from I don’t speak Mandarin, to us living in the UK. Both are true. I went out to meet them this year ( she only told them about me a year ish ago ) , they were perfectly civil, took me out for a meal on my first night in Taipei. Then it did not look like I was going to see them again ( I was a bit pissed as their big issue at that time was they had never met me ) ( their issues change all the time ), anyway I said to my gf let me and your dad just meet up and try and sort it out ( he seems reasonable whereas her ice queen… sorry mother (( ice queen was too polite )) does not ). He agreed we met up, I said what is the real problem as it always changes when i provide a solution ( i wanted him to just say ‘you are white’ ). He said the problem is she lives in england. She did anyway before she met me. He wants us to move back there, i point out I have a good job here, house etc. I would not be able to do much in Taiwan. He offered to set us up in a business etc.
My fear is , they will get us there and just put more pressure on us to split up, I am not worried about that happening , but don’t want to waste my time moving there if there is no chance of them being satisfied with that. Is the fact their daughter lives abroad really a massive issue in their culture ? Do they ever really accept foreigners ? Or will i just be put up with ? I am well traveled have lived and worked in 5 countries, but the Taiwanese just … confuse the hell out of me. There are really hung up on my not speaking Mandarin. Which i understand. But when I started learning it they said they did not want to meet me anyway aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhh so i stopped. As I had no need to learn it other than to talk to them. They told her I had failed some damn test ??? WTF. I am sorry this is garbled, but the whole situation is stupid imo. I just don’t understand her family at all. Any insight would be appreciated. steve[/quote]
you know what? i think her parents miss her. with her being in england and all that, they cant visit her on the weekends or talk to her.
as for you not speaking mandarin, well, i guess it sounds like they are more “traditional” aka conservative in their thinking. they would prefer that their precious princess marry a rich chinese guy in taiwan.
just reassure them that you will treat your wife nicely. perhaps you could try moving to taiwan if you wanted to, depending on your situation in the uk. i’ve heard you cannot claim benefits or lose your pension if you reside overseas for a certain number of years? taiwan is not that bad. white guys are generally regarded as rich and upper class in taiwan. you might even like it there.
it is not that bad even if things dont work out between you and them is it? after all, it is their daughter you married, not them
My 2c
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if Op and gf could enjoy a good standard of living and like the idea of singapore/HK that would be a very good “compromise”, 1-3 hr flight to TW and 12hr to UK, cheapish and more affordable that if living in TW
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as others have said, TW MILs can be a nightmare, but actually the “screw it just marry them if thats what you want” that I said in another thread is actually acceptable (although I was told that was immature so I wont repeat again).
The justification is that the parents are generally from a very 'tough" generation, they have seen huge changes in TW and have adapted very well, but like my MIL, so have very low educations. My MIL graduated elementary school, then started looking after her kid sisters and working (age 10/11). Take this into account.
My MIL liked me as bf, hated me as fiancee, then we have built up to a slight team because she knows I dont take shit and will stand up for myself and will do things. She respects those qualities. Now after 2 years of marriage we (me and MIL) oversaw the spring clean of the mother’s house at the weekend picking up the trash from the 3 sisters (one of which is my wife) saying “Zhige she sheme!!! … Taijiu… Diodiao… [what’s this!!! Too old… Throw away…]”. She also respects me for doing the DIY in the house and also helping with the cooking while allowing my wife to go to work. She is grateful for these things, but at the sametime prefers the traditional because she doesnt want to be seen as criticizing her husbands choices (stay at home, cook, bear and look after my children and Ill provide for you).
My mandarin still sucks ass and she still speaks taiwanese/japanese to me, but when the they say “adogah/weiguo…[bignose/foreigner]” I listen to their opinion and try to educate, like this weekend they said 'Weigouren dou xihaun qingcaide pizza[something like that =something like= foreigners all like pizza with vegetables on]" so I told them that I liek it because I vegetables, but many americans like meat on pizzas, but europeans favour lighter versions. I then explained to her sister that in the UK we are more culturally close to America, but are still influenced heavily by europe and they have reuced the number of “cultureal learnings of foreigner state” type comments. Sometimes though they are just trying to understand and othertimes they are actually criticizing taiwanese culture.
I think the most important comment was the “kowtowing”, appreciate and respect the MiL for bearing and putting her life into her daughter, but be firm and gain her respect. The reason you lost points for not learning mandarin is because you should do it for you gf, not her parents and by giving up shows youre a quitter and you will never be able ti understand how your wife thinks.
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As above, dont move for her family, move for her if you are serious
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TW can suck ass and family relationships are very complex and ever changing, maybe after our next visit I would be more negative about the MiL, but thats life, most relationships are sinuous, the important one is the one between you and your gf, and liek above, if you show you care and are commited the family will accept you if you are kind, good to her and provide for her, but they will still ask for money and “insult” you every now and then
In matters of the heart one should be decisive, or at least seen to be decisive. Don’t pussyfoot around. It is not as if your love for her depends on how you get on with her parents, I presume. And who is going to dominate her life in the longer term? Most likely you and your children.
Concerning the language point, when a prospective father in law says something like that, he means much more than literally being able to speak Mandarin. He is worried and curious about whether you will ever really be able to understand Chinese and Taiwan customs, culture and etiquette. He almost certainly regards this as an important prerequisite for marrying his daughter and joining the family. Do what you can to show him that you have some understanding of these things.
I take it that you will be visiting next month for CNY?
Just my 2cts.
I hear what everyone is saying.
Step 1: Find out what you and your girlfriend want. Are you in it for possible marriage or just hanging out and sexing up and having a great time… maybe even a lifetime of it!
Step 2: Openly and honestly discuss with each other all the possibilities available to you. Not just UK or Taiwan but anywhere in the entire World. Bar None.
Step 3: Narrow your options down to your top 3.
Step 4: Analyze the viability of your top choices.
Step 5: When you have a viable solution with a back up plan execute it and enjoy it for whatever it’s worth… Life has no guarantees and only rewards the bold.
[quote=“Satellite TV”]
Maybe the post should be how some fathers feel towards other peoples daughters. It’s a two way street. Nobody once asked the OP does his family support him if he wanted to move to Taiwan? How would they feel not being able to see their son often if he moved to Taiwan.
Well you see I do have it flipped around, I am that semi educated father, business owner that makes a modest living, has nearly 19 year old child who may leave Taiwan to be with partner. 
So yes I think I do have some understanding of what Taiwanese fathers feel for their children. :shocker: :shocker:
Nobody wants to see their childrens marriage end in divorce.[/quote]
Well, if you want to have your culture accomodated to by the inlaws, you have to educate them. Most Taiwanese in their 50’s and 60’s don’t have a clue. But then, even well -educated western parents will not have a cluse about how Chinese/Taiwanese culture works anyways.
The most important thing remains your GF. The rest can be handled with some ease if she’s on the side of you staying together.
[quote=“Satellite TV”][quote=“economy ah”]In matters of the heart one should be decisive, or at least seen to be decisive. Don’t pussyfoot around. It is not as if your love for her depends on how you get on with her parents, I presume. And who is going to dominate her life in the longer term? Most likely you and your children.
Concerning the language point, when a prospective father in law says something like that, he means much more than literally being able to speak Mandarin. He is worried and curious about whether you will ever really be able to understand Chinese and Taiwan customs, culture and etiquette. He almost certainly regards this as an important prerequisite for marrying his daughter and joining the family. Do what you can to show him that you have some understanding of these things.[/quote]
Will the family show the OP respect by trying to understand English and UK customs, culture and etiquette?
After all the family do not own the daughter. How do you expect the OP to undertsand Taiwan’s customs unless he lives here. Even people who have been here for a long time don’t always understand them very well.[/quote]
I suppose that the family might try to understand English customs etc., but I doubt that the OP would expect it. If he is still around perhaps he could tell us?
If things go well, I would expect that the OP could learn a lot from his girl, and yes, perhaps he should spend some time in Taiwan. A match-maker/go-between/interlocutor could be quite helpful in sorting all these things out, maybe? Or the use of one could cause additional friction. It is difficult to know, without having more info.
I got bored somewhere on page two as the thread started to unravel, as sometimes happens here…
But, from what I read, page one had the best advice and Maoman’s assessment of the posts thus far was spot on. I also think Jaboney gave you the best advice you’re going to get here.
For my part I’ll just say this:
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Stay in the UK. Your life, career and your home is there. If you get married and have kids, the last thing you want to do is put your kids through the school system here. This is a huge problem for me in the future. I want my son to play sports in the afternoons and for the family to all be home by 5pm and have dinner together at 7pm. But at this stage (and for the foreseeable future) this isn’t going to be possible.
I love Taiwan, I love the people and I have no problem with the culture. Some things irritate me, for sure, but back home there were way more things that pissed me off and to a much greater extent. The points I’ve already mentioned are all that really concerns me here. As a result, I’ll say here what I’ve told my wife on a few occasions. IMVHO Taiwan is heaven for young single guys, but it’s far from ideal for married guys with a family. Many here won’t agree with me regarding this, but…
to each his own. -
If you get married all you owe her family (if anything at all) would be a once a year or once every two years visit during Chinese New Year. And, they could always come visit you guys there in the UK.
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Asked my wife about what she thought and she said, “I think it is the girl’s family’s fault. Maybe they don’t like foreigners, maybe they don’t want her to live far away. But I think if he (the OP) comes to Taiwan they will have more problems.”
btw, I have a great relationship with my wife’s family. About 16 months ago we moved into the same apartment block to be closer to her mother for various reasons. We are moving out this month to a house sufficiently far away - It was my wife’s idea because she has come to think that it is better for us (for many of the reasons that several posters have already mentioned) not to live so close to family.
In short, if I could I’d move back home to give my son a better school going experience, although I would probably move back here after he finished high school/university. However, I want him to also have a solid grounding in Mandarin and Taiwanese, so I’m hoping to have things set up to do just that after he finishes primary school here. But if you have opportunities in the UK for Mandarin schooling (Saturday Chinese classes or Chinese at a primary school) that isn’t even an issue. We have a Chinese school in Pretoria (South Africa) but it is hugely expensive and would make an international school in Taiwan look cheap by comparison.
At the end of the day, don’t give up a good thing for what could potentially end in abject disaster. 
Good luck with whichever way you choose to go.
Hi, thanks for the replies. I think it needs clarifying that i would not consider moving there to please the mother in law in any way. I would consider moving there for my GF. Our life is cool here, but can be safely put on hold to try Taiwan , if it went tits up we could return, i could get my job back. My house i can rent out.
There are opportunities in Taiwan for us that we don’t have here. My gf could get a better job there than here. So its not all sacrifice to go there.
I was really wondering, would there attitude change if we did go there. My GF does want to go there.
Cheers
Well in that case I might just give it a try.
What would you be doing here? Does she have a job or is she still studying? Has she tried to work in the UK? Taiwanese is in many ways more traditional than the west, and in most cases, females have less of a career here than they have in the west.
Also, unless you are able to find a job here in Taiwan keeping you on whatever career track you are on, it would be a step back for you to come here. Think it through not just for her but also for you.
[quote=“riggers”] I was really wondering, would there attitude change if we did go there. My GF does want to go there.
[/quote]
If you came back as Mr. and Mrs Riggers, it might just. Short of that, you will see the inlaws presenting a few Taiwanese eliglible bachelors for your GF hoping that she would get over her foreign affliction. This story has been presented quite a few times. It would be an issue, if she is easily influenced by her family.
[color=#0000FF]Oh yes it is.[/color] You have no idea about the sacrifices you are going to make to come here. It’s nothing like what you can imagine. Visiting is one thing, moving here is another.
How long do you think it takes to settle in? Maybe 6 - 10 years on average.
The average wage for someone like your GF might be 500 pounds a month, a thousand if she was really exceptional, which let us tell you, is more likely not to be the case as there are thousands of Taiwanese who have studied abroad struggling back here. Her family don’t like you already and will do their damnest to split you apart.
Taiwan has been mired in a recession for years. Most of the Expats there were employed here have been replaced by locals. Salaries are depressed for job seekers. You might come here and be lucky to make a thousand quid a month teaching English.
Your job in the UK I am sure won’t wait that long. Neither will your relationship with your GF.
Following pussy and your heart might sound like fun at the time. Reality is often different.
I should know.
Looks ok, on paper…
As long as you wont be giving up everything without a hope of getting back where you left off, it may be worth a go. However…
She might, but what would you be doing? Teaching English? That gets old quick and there’s not that much money to be made anymore. Without knowing all your details, my feeling is you would be sacrificing your career for a nominal improvement in hers (If any at all, at least financially, because Taiwanese girls who studied abroad are fairly common here and they don’t do as well as you’d think - I work with several Taiwanese who studied up to masters and doctoral level in the UK or North America and they earn less than I do and my salary is by no means stellar. In fact, financially, I would’ve been much better off if I’d stayed in the SA Navy…), whereas she would probably be able to do just fine in the UK, and in time might do much better than she could ever hope to do here.
Furthermore, if you do move back here with her, what would the goal be? How long would you stay (even if things with her family improve)? Because if she’s that keen on coming back here, once back you’re going to have a devil of a time convincing her to return to the UK.
Here are two threads that might be interesting to you and that I suggest you peruse. Their stories aren’t unique, by a long shot, but they’re two good ones I can remember. Have a gander and make sure you know what you may be getting yourself into:
[url=http://tw.forumosa.com/t/mrshill-too-much-info-break-up/43017/1 Too much info. Break-up.
Ironically, both OPs are from the UK…
Attitude change from whom? Her or her parents?
Depending on her relationship with her parents, regardless of the status of your relationship (married or not) there is a very real chance that her attitude may change. And I suspect it wont be for the better. From personal experience I’ve gotten the distinct impression that guys who have met their Taiwanese wives in Taiwan have had a much higher success rate thatn the poor sods who met them in their home countries and followed them to Taiwan. This is, of course, a feeling based on nothing but what I’ve read here over the years, and from what I’ve experienced personally and with friends on this island. There are guys here who met their Taiwanese wives abroad and followed them here and been very happy, as well as guys who met their wives here only to get divorced and face huge difficulties regarding settlements and/or children. However, it has been my personal experience that guys who have met their wives abroad (studying or working) in their home countries and followed them here have usually had their expectations dashed, their hearts ripped out and their dignity trashed.
I don’t know you or your girlfriend and there’s no knowing what will happen, but I’d hate to be reading a thread by you in a few years time similiar to the two I posted above.
As far as her parents are concerned, here or back in the UK, I don’t think their attitude towards you will improve much, if at all. Again, I have experienced some cases where the in-laws have come around after initial misgivings, but that has been the very small minority in terms of exceptions to the general rule of it only getting worse, married or not. As one poster above noted, their is a very real chance that her parents will flaunt possible suitors they deem appropriate right in front of you with no thought as to how you may feel about it. I remember a poster on this board mentioning that happening to him on several occasions even after he had married his Taiwanese girlfriend and fathered a child with her.
[quote=“riggers”]My GF does want to go there.
Cheers[/quote]
Sure, but will she ever want to return once you guys have come to Taiwan? Will it really only be for a few years?
Personally (and this is really just my personal feeling, nothing else) I get a very bad feeling about all of this. I can’t honestly see it turning out well for you in any way or form. That said, I could be wrong.
If you are hell bent on accommodating her and coming out here with her I’d advise this: Hope for the best, but expect nothing and plan for the worst possible outcome. Make sure that whatever happens you are protected and can return home and continue your life where you left off. A little wiser, perhaps, but none the worse for wear.
And if there is ever any talk of children, make it clear that if the relationship is to go that way your agreement should be to return to the UK before any children are included in the relationship.
A break up, or a divorce is peanuts compared to a divorce with kids where you are muscled out of all and any rights and forced to leave the country without any hope of ever seeing your child again. Sure, this may seem far fetched now, but if you are serious enough to uproot yourself from your home and your career to follow a woman half way around the world, you at least want to give these possible scenarios some consideration.
Whatever you decide, or whatever happens, I wish you all the best. I know some of us (me included) may come off as a cynical bunch, but we’ve seen these things happen way to many times. It’s even happened to a few of us. Keep your wits about you, mate, and best of luck. 
[color=#0000FF]Oh yes it is.[/color] How long do you think it takes to settle in? Maybe 6 - 10 years on average.
Her family don’t like you already and will do their damnest to split you apart.
Taiwan has been mired in a recession for years. Most of the Expats there were employed here have been replaced by locals. Salaries are depressed for job seekers. You might come here and be lucky to make a thousand quid a month teaching English.
Your job in the UK I am sure won’t wait that long. Neither will your relationship with your GF.
Following pussy and your heart might sound like fun at the time. Reality is often different.
I should know. [/quote]
Mate, we have been together several years now, its hardly a case of following the pussy. My job will be fine to wait for the length of time it will take to give taiwan a go. If i stayed 10 years i could come back and get a job straight away, i am lucky in that regard.
There are opportunities available to us that are not there for us in the UK, that much is certain.
If i cannot settle, we will come back.
Though i do read what you guys say with trepidation.
[color=#0000FF]Oh yes it is.[/color] How long do you think it takes to settle in? Maybe 6 - 10 years on average.
Her family don’t like you already and will do their damnest to split you apart.
Taiwan has been mired in a recession for years. Most of the Expats there were employed here have been replaced by locals. Salaries are depressed for job seekers. You might come here and be lucky to make a thousand quid a month teaching English.
Your job in the UK I am sure won’t wait that long. Neither will your relationship with your GF.
Following pussy and your heart might sound like fun at the time. Reality is often different.
I should know. [/quote]
Mate, we have been together several years now, its hardly a case of following the pussy. My job will be fine to wait for the length of time it will take to give taiwan a go. If i stayed 10 years i could come back and get a job straight away, I am lucky in that regard.
There are opportunities available to us that are not there for us in the UK, that much is certain.
If i cannot settle, we will come back.
Though I do read what you guys say with trepidation.[/quote]
All the best to you - I would still think it through, perhaps get married first, and then live a year or 2 in the UK as a married couple. That way, you mark off your patch in relation to her family.
If you want to have opportunities here in Taiwan apart from teaching English, the following is key:
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Have lots of experience and a background which is in demand here. If you don’t, your competition in the job market will be locals willing to work for 700GBP per month.
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In order to work well in a generalized job such as sales etc. at least some understanding of the local lingo is good. I have done better here than I would have done back home, however I got an MA in Chinese, with a minor in business. The jobs I could get (apart from my finance gig) paid in general GBP1200 per month. That was some 50% above the locals doing the same job, but still, the budget was tight.
As I was tired of working in jobs with poor pay, lots of pressure from Taiwanese bosses (in general horrible), and not great career prospects, I ended up setting up a company on my own, however again, that took some time to get properly going.
- No matter what you do, I would strongly - and I mean strongly - suggest that you and your GF live together and at least some 50km away from the inlaws from the getgo. If your GF comes back to be with her mother, you might end up living alone in a flat somewhere, while she is with her parents. Expect them to be busy line up siutable local suitors for her, as mentioned previously. Also, expect her to be under a lot of pressure to give you the slip. She might be strong enough to handle it, but at the very least I would turn up here as their son in law.
Not all Taiwanese families have issues with getting a foreign son in law, btw. My first set of Taiwan outlaws tried to protest, but my ex wife would have none of that. My current set of outlaws was split over the issue, however my wife’s mind was set in stone over that issue. A few of the posters here have their own horror stories, though.
I have been here 21 years. Many others here have been here 10 years. In all reality it is not easy moving to a new country. You never know that your jobs skills that you have now cannot be put to good use here.
Anywys if you are flexible, determined, stubborn, and don’t give a toss about what others think you should be doing then you can make a pretty good life for yourself here. You might be able to start your own business with your current skill set.