Instead of the bible

It was recently suggested that a good way to start the day would be to read the psalms, but I’m going to disagree. (And try to keep away from religious argument in the process.)

Let’s say someone has been brought up ‘in the judeo-christian tradition’ and religion was at least there in the background of everyday life for most people in his part of the world. He grows up and ventures into the wider world ouside to the extent that he finds himself expressing dissatisfaction with values and goals accepted by the people he left behind. It’s not their religion he has problems with, but their general approach to life, and wishes for their sake that they would learn more.

He’s a good guy, moved by compassion, who has moved on from his roots and is maybe still trying to make sense of the world. In fact, he’s actively seeking advice from a wide circle of people (who are mostly well-meaning) on all sorts of issues. And he does appear to have issues to resolve, problems with his life which indicate that he hasn’t yet found answers that work for him.

I don’t believe that advising this person to seek answers in the bible is actually very helpful. It may give him some solace and support, but if it was going to provide him with answers then why doesn’t he already have those answers? He’s trying to move on from his past, and even if he ultimately comes full circle doesn’t he owe it to himself to first explore new ideas and alternatives to the tradition he has grown up with?

The total of what he has grown up with has not been enough for him. He’s expressed dissatisfaction with it already, and he doesn’t seem to know enough yet to run his own life to his own satisfaction. The problem is not necessarily his religion, but does he really even know what the problem is or what questions to ask? What is missing from his growth so far that he still has problems?

I put it to the forumosa community that instead of advising those with difficulties to take solace in the familiar we should propose a more radical solution. That the individual should recognise that he has to manage and direct his own growth, to seek out new points of view and ideas, and to step outside his comfort zone.

What books, instead of the bible, would you recommend to someone embarking on a long and arduous journey of the mind?

Something subversive like ‘The Dice Man’?
Something traditional and uplifting like Joseph Conrad’s ‘Youth’?
Ursula LeGuin - ‘The Disposessed’?
Ah, how about Paul Theroux - ‘Saint Jack’? There’s a book that’ll put the fear of growing old into any ageing ex-pat.

What have you read that has made an impact on you? What did you more good than going back to where you came from? What took you back?

Heart of Darkness,
Steppenwolf,
The Idiot,
A Hero for Our Times,
A Bend in the River,
Air-conditioned Nightmare,
Even Cowgirls Get the Blues,
Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance,

All books to brighten the soul.

The Bhagavad Gita.

And “The Bible” is many books. I find the Book of Job to be a refreshingly dark counterpoint to Psalms or the New Testament.

“You’re miserable, but I’m God, so shut up.” Not that I paraphrase disparagingly–sometimes I suspect that’s actually the way it works, and we might as well come to terms with it.

In fact, I have the impression that what God speaks from the whirlwind is not that far off from what Krishna says from Arjuna’s chariot.

I believe that starting off the day reading ANYTHING (other than complete bubble gum fiction) will make you a better person. Because it causes you to think and thoughtful people are better people.
The benefit of reading the bible every day for christians is that it reminds them to try to be good christians. So yeah, reading out of a book that would give you spiritual or emotional guidance is a good idea. But if you won’t do that, just reading at ALL is a step up for most people.

Pardon my misanthropy there…

Delta of Venus by Anais Nin

The Beastly Beatitudes of Balthazar B by JP Donleavy.

Anything written by Joseph Campbell.

Emily Dickenson…if you know that she wrote them all to the tune of “Amazing Grace” they are sooo much sweeeter.

Anything written by H. Murakami. He rules the emotions.

Great rebuttal thread btw
. :slight_smile:

I am aghast at this whole thread. Oh how deeply offended I am.

I start most days with the Taipei Times.

Hmmm…

How about The Purpose Driven Life by Rick Warren

What have you read that has made an impact on you? What did you more good than going back to where you came from? What took you back?
those that take me back.
Poe
Anything by Robert Aspring, 1984, 451, Anything by Orwell or Bradbury, the Hitchhiker’s set, and just about any classical horros
Did me more good than where I came from:
The Hindi works made me an Agnostic… in the rudest and most racist of ways… I kept reading them going “I can’t believe people believe this tripe…oh…”.
Dirk Gentry’s… reminded me that I actually DO have a sense of humour. Just that most people don’t get it.
Impact on me:
All of the above, actually. Mostly Poe and Adams. And Orwell. And Bradburry.
Actually, Edward Gorey.
I think the book that has had the most imfluence of me is, actually, the bible. I think that growing up believing in something and then one day realizing that you don’t makes you change a great deal.

Loretta was asking about book(s) that would help people “find answers” to living a less troubled life. To that end I will once again recommend “The Art of Hapiness” by the Dali Lama. It may at first appear overly simplistic, corny even, but if you look at what he says I think you’ll realize he has it all pretty well figured out. And if you actually practice what he suggests you’ll find yourself living with more peace of mind. Of that I can give personal testimony.

The bible is an awesome work of literature but IMHO it is no place to go looking to it for any sort of cohesive living philosophy.

[quote][quote=“bob”]Loretta was asking about book(s) that would help people “find answers” to living a less troubled life. To the end I will once again recommend "The Art of Hapiness" by the Dali Lama. It may at first appear overly simplistic, corny even, but if you look at what he says I think you’ll realize he has it all pretty well figured out. And if you actually practice what he suggests you’ll find yourself living with more peace of mind. Of that I can give personal testimony.

The bible is an awesome work of literature but IMHO it is no place to go looking to it for any sort of cohesive living philosophy.[/quote][/quote]
How odd for a piece of work that was written 2000 years ago. :slight_smile:

BTW, the D-lama’s books are all good. See him in person in this life if you can…I did…he IS da man!

I can’t say that about any other living religious freak.

And I would suggest Black Elk…

indians.org/welker/blackelk.htm

Alone in the world 100 years ago…this man had his shit together!

[quote]The Sunset
Then I was standing on the highest mountain of them all, and round about beneath me was the whole hoop of the world. And while I stood there I saw more than I can tell and I understood more than I saw; for I was seeing in a sacred manner the shapes of all things in the spirit, and the shape of all shapes as they must live together like one being.

And I say the sacred hoop of my people was one of the many hoops that made one circle, wide as daylight and as starlight, and in the center grew one mighty flowering tree to shelter all the children of one mother and one father. And I saw that it was holy…

But anywhere is the center of the world.[/quote][/quote]

I don’t think these need to be spiritual books for everyone. I think that for some the dystopian novels would/ will have a more awakening impact and lead them to be more self aware as well as more proactive and less self centered. I know that with as trite and repetive as she is, Ayn Rand has been the major influence in many possitive moves of modern culture. (Which is a lot to say from someone who absolutely abhors her works and most of her ideals)

For some, I think well written history may be the key. Well written, mind you.

BTW: Has anyone here read Orientalism by Edward Said? Anyone else wish they could kill that pretentious cretin?

My level is wrong. I am not an english teacher and I don’t wear headbands.

I don’t think these need to be spiritual books for everyone.[/quote]

YES! YES! LA!
YES! YES! LA!
If everyone would take that “scripture reading” time and use it to study a little chinese, there would be a whole lot more chinese speaking foreigners and a whole lot less people getting all confused and wigged out when I speak chinese.

Wow. On another note this makes me need to start a thread (or find one and bring it to life)

The bible and Christianity basic principles can be possibly summed up in the sentence “Do unto others as you would like them to do to you” However Loretta’s second paragraph in the original post hits home for me.

I’d rather listen to music I like first thing in the morning than read but then what’s appealing, like religion, is subjective. The play, The Pohutakawa tree by Bruce Mason, had me seeing the religion I was brought up in a different light. I’m fairly sure it’s available in book form although it is similar themewise to the movie The Mission which stars Robert De Niro.

I’m getting more interested in reading The Dice Man. I have no clue as to what would be a good read although there a tonne of books I’m planning to read in the not too distant future.

The Ashtavakra Gita
“A favorite among the mahatmas of the Himalayan Region”

Seven Arrows by Hyemeyohsts Storm

Zen in the Art of Archery by Eugen Herrigel

I wonder too if “the collected works of bob” might not be just the ticket to put a fellar like ran back on track. What with bob’s 2097 posts in the last four months alone there must be at least the odd bit of profundity and inspirational wit to be found in there somewhere. Otherwise even such a prodigiuos output such as his doesn’t amount to a hill of beans actually. It really is too distressing a notion to even contemplate. Gracious me has it all been for naught?

I’m surprised that no-one has mentioned them already. “Conversations with God” by Neale D. Walsch ( The first one - ISBN 0-340-69325-8) are very interesting. I was brought up in a Catholic house with parents that were and are still very active in the church. Of course being a teenager, I would prefer to listen to Motorhead than the priest. However, When I got to sixteen they let me decide whether or not to attend church. Of course, church or Motorhead… which would you choose? Even now, almost twenty years on, I’d still have to pick Motorhead, for many, many reasons.

The book (I have only read the first in the series) I believe, tries to convince you to follow God and to believe in “Him”. But, for me it failed (in an interesting way) and left me with the idea that God (whatever you want to call it) is part of all of us; and we show (or don’t show) God in our everyday actions and deeds. I certainly do not believe in a blokie upstairs with a long white beard, nor do I belive that when you die you go to heaven. There is no such thing as a credit system where good people go up, bad down. It’s just the fact that each and every one of us inherently knows what is right and wrong. It is the decisions you choose and your actions which are deemed Godly or not.

Okay, some of you may be a little skeptic, but this was my impression of the book. I will read the rest in the series when I get a chance, but for me there is no hurry, because I think from reading that book my relationship with “God” has been in some way finalized and my mind (for the time being) put at rest.

Loretta, this is well worth a read. If you are looking for the first step to dealing with your relationship with “Him” it’s worth a shot. I can lend it to you if you like. I’d be interested in your opinion.

L :smiley: