Interested in Taipei

Work Teaching English in Taiwan
1

Hey,

I teach in a bilingual school in Central America and before this I taught ESL weekly in the States, however I don’t have a TEFL certificate. My contract ends here in mid June and I want to relocate to Asia to teach for 1-2 years before attending grad school in the U.S. I’ve been researching Thailand, Japan, China, and Taiwan. I’m specifically interested in teaching in Taipei and I’m trying to get a sense of how the market is right now for new teachers with a bit of experience (although I’m not sure how the experience is counted in Taiwan if the teaching wasn’t in Asia). I’ve heard recently about teachers not getting enough hours and I wanted to know if that is in fact the case before I make any plans for a potential move out there.

I’m willing to get on the ground to find a job there, but I’d rather not if I don’t have to. From what I can tell, the chain schools recruit from abroad and I’m aware of the stories both good and bad about these outfits. I’m a young guy and I don’t need to save much money at all while I’m there for a couple years, and to be honest any job would be a step up from where I’m teaching now. The behavior problems at my k-12 school are insane and the hours are exhausting (7:00 to 4:30 Mon - Fri with hours of extra work, grading, prep time outside of school hours). I want an afternoon/evening schedule and I’d be willing to try out a chain school unless I could find something better on the ground.

If I wanted to apply to Hess, Kojen or Shane from abroad to start in August, should I go ahead and apply now? Or would people recommend that I forget these schools and just fly to Taipei in late July and interview in person for a better position. I have to have a full schedule, so I need to know that the hours are there. If not, I don’t think I can justify the move and I guess I’ll look elsewhere in Asia.

EDITED TO ADD: does anyone know if Shane actually requires a TEFL certification to teach with them? Their website says they do and some of their job advertisements say they “prefer” it and another says they’ll let you take a TEFL cert while working with them…

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bump :slight_smile:

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The whole question of whether or not to take a job from abroad is too messy to figure out. I personally took MOST people’s advice here, lived in a hotel for three weeks and found a job.

In terms of the whole certification thing, SOOO many places say they require one (I am not talking abt public schools…they MEAN it, its the law, but thats a teachers credential anyhoo) but anyway, it really depends on your experience and teaching demo. I was just hired by a place that demanded a toefl or toesl or something (dont remember cus I aint got neither…) my teaching demo was so awesome they interrupted me after 5 mins and said it was great. After a 15 minute interview I had a job :slight_smile:

So the whole esl certificate business is really just to weed out people who suck at life I think. Shane, I dunno abt in particular.

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Thanks for your reply. I’m not averse to getting on the ground in Taipei and looking for a job, but I wonder if it would actually be that much better for me to do that since I only plan to stay for one year. I want to start graduate school next fall; so if it’s only going to be for one year and I don’t need to save a significant amount of money then could I really do much better in the entry level market than the chain schools that recruit from abroad and give the opportunity for a “softer landing” in a sense? I just wonder if that extra leg work is worth it for a one year experience in Taipei. Maybe it is. Any advice on this point? I’ve been in touch with some people who work at Hess and Kojen, but not Shane. I’ve heard pretty good things about Shane, although they claim to require a TEFL certificate on their website while I’ve seen job postings online saying otherwise :s . The guy I talked to who works at Hess says you don’t have to work Saturdays unless you want to and I’ve heard Kojen makes you work Saturdays no matter what. So I’m going to send in some applications to the chains and see what bites I get. Failing that, we’ll see what happens…I’ve just heard such mixed reviews on these chain schools and I know it’s all subjective. Honestly though, anything would be a step up from where I am now (job wise). I work from 7:00 to 4:30 pm at school (six 50 minute classes Monday through Friday), then at least an hour a night grading assignments/exams and more hours on the weekend. Meeting with parents and the lesson planning for the 6 different classes on top of this is exhausting.

Thanks again.

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Hey ombr, I am in the exact same situation as you right now. I’m heading to Taipei in May and am pretty split right now on what to do as well. I’m a licensed teacher in Canada so I think I can get a good job when I land, but would love to be able to start working right away.

The way I see it, is if you believe you are well qualified and good at your job, landing here first is your best bet. To me, not meeting face to face with your employer or seeing what your workplace looks and feels like, is a HUGE disadvantage. However, from what I can gather, someone fresh off the boat, with no experience, might be better off starting with one of these schools, and have a job when they land. Mostly because they may not be employed by other (better) buxibans.

But if anyone with more experience has any input, that would be awesome for the both of us! :bow:

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Candaianteacher,

thanks for your reply. I think working at the chain schools is an experience that depends greatly on the branch you are assigned to. The branch managers can make your life good or bad from what I’ve heard. My main concern is being paid on time and working the hours that I agree to up front. Meaning I’m not being called in to work Sundays if I don’t want to. From what I hear from people working at Hess, that’s the upside about the company. They pay you on time and you work the hours agreed upon originally. Anyone can b*tch about the teaching method they have to use, the materials, the kids or whatever, but I’m not a career teacher and this is not something I’m going to consider beneath my skill level. Some teachers refuse to work in such a place where they have no “teaching freedom” in a sense. I could care less and the more they have it laid out the better. I follow directions and don’t rock the boat and get paid on time and enjoy my life outside of school in a foreign country. THat’s what I do at my current job in Honduras and it’s what I hope to do in Taipei so I think the chain schools are fine in that sense and to get on the ground in my situation to “TRY” and find a better job is not the best route I don’t think. I could be completely wrong, but we’ll see haha. Thanks.

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Several friends work for Hess in Taipei and have for many years. Paid on time, nothing too weird. Given you desire for a year in Taiwan with minimal hassles I’d say this is a good choice. I can ask about which branches are better than others if you like.

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That would be amazing if you could do that Mucha. Im sure omrb would appreciate that too. Last night I looked again at the HESS threads again and another question popped up. If i were to sign a contract here, would they place me where they needed me? Or would I be able to make my own decision at which HESS site I would be working at. I really do want to stay in Taipei, so that could be a deal-breaker.

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Well, just be really clear on your application that you only want to work in Taipei. I find honesty up front tends to make communications smooth. If I could do it over again though, I’d choose Taijong or somewhere south. It has been a very rainy winter. Why are you so fixated on Taipei, by the way? Got a girl up here?
As far as which branches are best, I find that to some degree that is just luck, but to a large extent it has to do with the teacher’s attitude. I’ve seen people walk into crappy situations and make it really work, while others seethe with resentment and anger in the sweetest jobs…
I’m extremely lucky, my current job only has awesome people, but I have seen a fair few over the years miss the adventure and shoot themselves in the foot.

It sounds like you are a good candidate, though.

I should make one correction. It is not true that you can choose whether you work on Saturdays or not. Many branches you have to. There are a very few that don’t have classes on Saturdays. Some of those with Saturday classes get the classes covered by only part of the staff (poor sentence, but it is way past my bedtime - apologies), and others have the day off. It was my experience that everyone had to work Saturdays, although after almost a decade with Hess, I changed branches to one that is closed Saturdays.

My opinion of the company is high. It is well organized. The curriculum is excellent. You tend to get a decent amount of hours (although the first month is a bit lean) as per whichever contract you sign. Good luck.

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Probably after Central America, the OP would like to be in a bigger, more modern city.

The main reason to look for work on the ground is to try to get better conditions (schedule, etc.) but usually to try to get more money. If the money isn’t a big concern, and you’re in for a year then out, a chain might be an easier solution, the same way a package tour makes sense if you only have a week to see China and don’t want to worry about the details.

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Nah I’m actually coming over with my girl. We just both think its the best idea since neither of us speak a lick of Mandarin (although I plan on learning the basics before going over). Also, I’ve lived in a tiny town my entire life (about an hour north of Toronto), so the idea to live in a massive compacted city intrigues me.

Love the advice from everyone, and thanks iron lady. The idea that I only plan on being in Taiwan for a year (two at most) makes me think a chain might be my best bet.

If anyone else has any advice, I’d love to hear it! :slight_smile:

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[quote=“CanadianTeacher”]…Also, I’ve lived in a tiny town my entire life (about an hour north of Toronto), so the idea to live in a massive compacted city intrigues me.
[/quote]

One of the great things about Taipei is that it’s really separated into neighborhoods and if you live on the outer edges near the mountains it can be like living in a small town. I spend most of my time outside riding a bike or walking along the river paths or walking in the lushly forested hills across from my house. But the urban sprawl is right there in the other direction and I can be on the subway in 2 minutes to go anywhere.

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If you’re only going to be here a year I would recommend Mainland China. In China they gave me a free apartment and airfare reimbursement. You won’t get either here. Oh, and by the way, if you are only here for one year and come in the summer… You’ll pay 18% taxes all the way through… and it won’t get refunded if you leave the following summer! All this will take a huge bite out of that higher hourly wage. It’s been 7 years since I’ve worked in China but I’m sure the taxes are more reasonable there.

You’ll be lucky to break even, especially working for Hess since their hourly pay is the lowest… If you do work for Hess, you will also be doing a LOT of UNPAID hours! I know this because this is exactly what I am dealing with now! One other thing about Hess, they will place you where they want and it is not negotiable. Also, they are in the habit of not telling you where you will be placed until you get here! :cactus:

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If you’re only going to be here a year I would recommend Mainland China. In China they gave me a free apartment and airfare reimbursement. You won’t get either here. Oh, and by the way, if you are only here for one year and come in the summer… You’ll pay 18% taxes all the way through… and it won’t get refunded if you leave the following summer! All this will take a huge bite out of that higher hourly wage. It’s been 7 years since I’ve worked in China but I’m sure the taxes are more reasonable there.

You’ll be lucky to break even, especially working for Hess since their hourly pay is the lowest… If you do work for Hess, you will also be doing a LOT of UNPAID hours! I know this because this is exactly what I am dealing with now! One other thing about Hess, they will place you where they want and it is not negotiable. Also, they are in the habit of not telling you where you will be placed until you get here! :cactus:[/quote]

That’s a bit different from the people I’ve talked to who work at Hess. I’m sure you are being truthful, but your experience is your experience and others have been different. I don’t know a thing about Hess beyond what I’ve heard from people who work there currently. The thing about working “A LOT OF UNPAID HOURS”; would you mind explaining that further? As in, how many hours specifically that you work beyond teaching hours each day you go in and are they at the school or at home? If they are at the school, is that mandated or could you do the work at home? What specifically are you referring to? Grading assignments, lesson planning, meetings or office work? Would someone else mind chiming in about unpaid working hours if that is the case? What about not knowing where you will be placed until after you arrive? Anyone else had that happen? I just want more information and not just one anecdotal description before I cancel my plans to apply there.

About working in Mainland China…I’m still considering that. I would only work in a university there and I’m not sure I want the low pay even with the low hours. Living on the mainland is so much different too from friends of mine who have studied and lived there compared to Taipei. From all the research I’ve done and the people I know who have lived in both Taipei and Beijing (as well as other big cities in China), Taipei is the best option for me. Even with the higher tax rate (assuming I arrive after July 1st), I find it hard to believe that you would barely break even in a year unless you go out drinking your face off 4-5 nights a week and rent a baller apartment by yourself. I guess everyone has their own spending habits though. I’ve learned to be as frugal as I’ve ever been in my life living in Honduras and I’m sure that will help me adjust albeit in a much larger and more expensive city.

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Good for you for asking further questions instead of taking one person’s negative experience and only considering that.

At Hess:
Yes there is unpaid work. I do not think it is excessive.
Per 2 hour evening class: 20-25 min prep time , grading 15-30min. (I took longer to prep until I got used to it, though)

You should do 20 min of the prep time at work, but the grading can be done at home. However some teachers are not keen on carrying the books home, so most just get it done immediately after class.
Meetings really depend on the branch. Typically, 30 min per week.

Because the curriculum is very good, you don’t have to spend hours desperately searching ESL teaching websites for ideas, or wrestling with the photocopier.

Location: I applied late and was told Taipei was filled but there were positions available in Taipei County (now going by the artful name of New Taipei City). I chose the location I wanted out of a handful of options I was given BEFORE I arrived. Although most people know where they will be placed before they come, I have seen locations occasionally be changed during training (for unforeseen reasons, such as a current teacher having family or health issues and needing time off, or a new teacher deciding not to come to Taiwan. I don’t believe such shuffles are common, though.) As I said before, just be clear about your needs from the start.

Taxes: As I said before, your arrival date (not the date you start working) is key to the tax refund. If you are in the country 186 days , you’ll get a refund. Starting with the new calendar year, you start counting again. Just be sure if you stay for only a year that you work it so that at least one calendar year has 186 days of Taiwan residence. 186 days in both years is obviously better but doesn’t always work out with visas… The refund can be sizeable, at 12% (18% witholding tax reduced to 6% tax if you stay 186 days ). That works out to several weeks pay. Be aware time away from Taiwan on trips is subtracted from your 186 days on the tax form.

Spending: I know someone who spends about $7000-8000 a month on food ( free lunch at work) , less than $5000 a month on shared housing, around $700-1000 a month on phone and internet, and about $400 a month on travel. I forget what on utilities. not much.
Now that is frugal. I can’t do it myself, but I can see how it is possible. You are bang on about the spending habits of some.
Partying a lot is death to saving lots of cash.

I love living in Taiwan. It rains a lot in the winter in Taipei, but the rest of the time I swear it is absolute paradise.

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If you’re only going to be here a year I would recommend Mainland China. In China they gave me a free apartment and airfare reimbursement. You won’t get either here. Oh, and by the way, if you are only here for one year and come in the summer… You’ll pay 18% taxes all the way through… and it won’t get refunded if you leave the following summer! All this will take a huge bite out of that higher hourly wage. It’s been 7 years since I’ve worked in China but I’m sure the taxes are more reasonable there.

You’ll be lucky to break even, especially working for Hess since their hourly pay is the lowest… If you do work for Hess, you will also be doing a LOT of UNPAID hours! I know this because this is exactly what I am dealing with now! One other thing about Hess, they will place you where they want and it is not negotiable. Also, they are in the habit of not telling you where you will be placed until you get here! :cactus:[/quote]

That’s a bit different from the people I’ve talked to who work at Hess. I’m sure you are being truthful, but your experience is your experience and others have been different. I don’t know a thing about Hess beyond what I’ve heard from people who work there currently. The thing about working “A LOT OF UNPAID HOURS”; would you mind explaining that further? As in, how many hours specifically that you work beyond teaching hours each day you go in and are they at the school or at home? If they are at the school, is that mandated or could you do the work at home? What specifically are you referring to? Grading assignments, lesson planning, meetings or office work? Would someone else mind chiming in about unpaid working hours if that is the case? What about not knowing where you will be placed until after you arrive? Anyone else had that happen? I just want more information and not just one anecdotal description before I cancel my plans to apply there.

Even with the higher tax rate (assuming I arrive after July 1st), I find it hard to believe that you would barely break even in a year unless you go out drinking your face off 4-5 nights a week and rent a baller apartment by yourself. I guess everyone has their own spending habits though. I’ve learned to be as frugal as I’ve ever been in my life living in Honduras and I’m sure that will help me adjust albeit in a much larger and more expensive city.[/quote]

If you take a contract with Hess and get any Young Scholar’s classes, prepare to do everything the above poster mentioned plus make up classes (unpaid), test and quiz grading, essay corrections, progress reports every three weeks, formal progress reports every six weeks which include calculated homework averages (on a calculator) and last but not least… a performance play, written and directed by you. All unpaid. Oh, also! You will have to stay after work and do telephone tests twice a semester. That is no exaggeration.

I’m not going to sit here and make an inventory of all the tasks I do in a day, but I will say that I work about 24 hours a week. Ten of those hours are in Young Scholars’ classes and basically I am doing 40-45 hours a week of total work. Increase that to 50 near the end of the semester when everyone is stressing over performances.

If you just get Kindy, you will still have to do the performance but the paperwork should be significantly less. If you get that, you will likely be doing split shifts. Working mornings and nights.

One other thing about Hess; you will likely be working six days a week. I lucked out and am only working five a week, but six is the NORM, as they will tell you in training.

As far as location goes, I came here last summer and they had me fill out one of three places I wanted to work in. I said Taoyuan, Taizhong and some other place. I forgot the third. They put me in Taoyuan COUNTY, about 30 minutes from Taoyuan city. I work 1 hour from Taoyuan City. If they tell you what they told me, that you will have to “be flexible,” this is your fair warning.

As far as breaking even, just be sure to budget and also factor in the flight arrangements, which will not be reimbursed. Budget so that you can save some money even working minimum hours. I’ve been working here for nine months and I’ve saved enough to have 5 months in living expenses plus enough to buy a real TESOL course, but most of my coworkers complain of being broke. Maybe you’re more like me.

If you intend to save some money in your first year, you can do it, but you have to be disciplined. People who treat this as an “off year” wind up living hand to mouth where I work. If you want your own place, I would budget about NT25,000 per month. I spend 20,000 per month but I don’t live in Taipei. My after tax income is about 50,000 so I save 30,000 NT per month.

Oh, one other thing! You WILL be living on lean times during Chinese New Year, an unpaid six-week holiday. Prepare for that. Kindy and Young Scholars are both closed for that time and only Language School classes are in operation. Most of us were only working 12-14 hours per weeks and there is one whole week of no class, which is unpaid. Basically, half a paycheck for 2 months. Lean times.

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[quote=“KaiXi333”]

If you take a contract with Hess and get any Young Scholar’s classes, prepare to do everything the above poster mentioned plus make up classes (unpaid), test and quiz grading, essay corrections, progress reports every three weeks, formal progress reports every six weeks which include calculated homework averages (on a calculator) and last but not least… a performance play, written and directed by you. All unpaid. Oh, also! You will have to stay after work and do telephone tests twice a semester. That is no exaggeration.

I’m not going to sit here and make an inventory of all the tasks I do in a day, but I will say that I work about 24 hours a week. Ten of those hours are in Young Scholars’ classes and basically I am doing 40-45 hours a week of total work. Increase that to 50 near the end of the semester when everyone is stressing over performances.

If you just get Kindy, you will still have to do the performance but the paperwork should be significantly less. If you get that, you will likely be doing split shifts. Working mornings and nights.

One other thing about Hess; you will likely be working six days a week. I lucked out and am only working five a week, but six is the NORM, as they will tell you in training.

As far as location goes, I came here last summer and they had me fill out one of three places I wanted to work in. I said Taoyuan, Taizhong and some other place. I forgot the third. They put me in Taoyuan COUNTY, about 30 minutes from Taoyuan city. I work 1 hour from Taoyuan City. If they tell you what they told me, that you will have to “be flexible,” this is your fair warning.

As far as breaking even, just be sure to budget and also factor in the flight arrangements, which will not be reimbursed. Budget so that you can save some money even working minimum hours. I’ve been working here for nine months and I’ve saved enough to have 5 months in living expenses plus enough to buy a real TESOL course, but most of my coworkers complain of being broke. Maybe you’re more like me.

If you intend to save some money in your first year, you can do it, but you have to be disciplined. People who treat this as an “off year” wind up living hand to mouth where I work. If you want your own place, I would budget about NT25,000 per month. I spend 20,000 per month but I don’t live in Taipei. My after tax income is about 50,000 so I save 30,000 NT per month.

Oh, one other thing! You WILL be living on lean times during Chinese New Year, an unpaid six-week holiday. Prepare for that. Kindy and Young Scholars are both closed for that time and only Language School classes are in operation. Most of us were only working 12-14 hours per weeks and there is one whole week of no class, which is unpaid. Basically, half a paycheck for 2 months. Lean times.[/quote]

Do you mean you teach for 24 hours a week and have between 16 and 21 hours of prep/grading a week also? I can’t imagine how that would be possible with a developed curriculum at that age level. That’s more prep/grading time per week than I have with 6 classes per day and over 160 teenage students. I also have no curriculum other than a textbook meaning I plan all my lessons from scratch…So unless I’m reading your post wrong, that’s a hell of a lot of time spent on work out of the classroom. If the work can be done at home (I’m assuming the grading, essay corrections and progress reports can be done at home; I don’t know why they couldn’t be), then I don’t know if it really can be considered unpaid work. It’s part of the job, just like the grading, etc. that I do at home is part of my job. Now, I’m also physically at school for close to 9.5 hours a day. Up at 6 a.m. and home at 4:30 p.m. So I honestly cannot see Hess or any cram school in Taiwan being more work (time at school) than what I’m doing now. The grading and other I consider to be totally relative to the teacher. If you are good at budgeting your time and doing things efficiently then it can be as much or as little “work” as you make it. That’s how it is at any school I think.

Anyone else on the 6 day work week? Including Kaixxi, all people I have talked to who work at Hess work 5 day weeks with an option to take classes on Saturdays if they want to. So that is unusual? I don’t know if it’s different in Taipei rather than other cities in Taiwan. Do you start out 6 days a week and move to 5 eventually? How long are you actually at school for on Saturdays?

Does the scenario he presents regarding working hours around the Chinese New Year happen in Taipei also? First you said it was an unpaid 6 week holiday then you said you worked 12-14 hours per week with only one week unpaid…Half a paycheck is definitely tough to deal with so I want to know if that’s true for other people, specifically those living in Taipei.

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It sounds like you either have the worst deal I have ever heard of, or you are exaggerating a teensy bit, or you are angry and not making things easier for yourself by focussing on being , well, angry.

My take on it:
Yes, you have to write plays for the kids to do at year end. You get paid for the performance and rehearsal, but not for writing the script or making props (if you have any in your play).
Telephone tests are a pain, but they are paid (I think it is 50NT per call).
I have never heard of foreign teachers (“NSTs”) not being paid for make-up classes.

Chinese New Year is a week, and is unpaid. Tree House (aka Young Scholars) do take a break that can be around 2-4 weeks, but I have never seen 6 weeks at any of the Hess schools I have worked at over the last decade, as far as I can recall, though I could be wrong…
For those who teach Young Scholars (TreeHouse), classes typically make up between 6 and 12 hours of the schedule. (6 hours a week per Treehouse class). So for those who teach Treehouse, you would have a low paycheque around CNY, unless you choose to do some subbing, which is abundantly available, especially at that time, as lots of teachers choose to travel around CNY…
Other buxiban classes (that make up the bulk of most teachers hours) do not take a “winter break”; they only take the week off for Chinese New Year (CNY). Same goes for Kindy. Kindy doesn’t close during the summer , either . You get continuous hours except for the odd holiday and CNY.

Yes, many Hess schools have hours on Saturdays. Not all, but many. Many schools that have Saturday classes do not need all the teachers to come in on Saturdays. These classes are typically taught on Wednesday as well, and often the NST teaches on Wednesday. Having said that , I would err on the side of caution and expect that Saturday hours are probably likely. The vast majority of Saturday classes are 4 hours in the morning, usually from 8:30am-12:30pm, although very rarely classes are held in the afternoon. Speech classes go for about 10 weeks or so in the winter and are often on Saturday afternoons. Usually only one person will teach that class per branch, if they have that class at all.
I worked for several years on Saturdays, but the Hess branch I work at now has less than 20% of the foreign teachers working Saturdays.

Yeah, grading sucks. Yeah, there is paperwork. I find there are some very efficient markers out there, and others who moan about it and make it take a lot longer than it needs to. Sadly, I probably fall in the latter category and whinge a great deal , but the vast majority are the former. You are right, though, grading papers is simply part of the job as a teacher. I won’t lie, if you want to make gobs of money, go to Korea and take the risks therein. If you want to live in a fantastic place and work at a job that pays you on time and treats you with respect, then this is the place.
I love this job. I think it is heaps of fun, though it is work. I guess that is what a job is. The curriculum is superb. I believe it is mostly what you make it.

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It doesn’t seem to pay you for half of the work though or offer paid holidays or guaranteed hours. Still if you are happy about exploitation good for you.

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Surely you mean six days? :astonished: