It isn’t divided north and south? 
I thought that such was a valid distinction, at least in regard to differences in culture among Germans! 
I’d love to quote some German in regards to this, but apart from those handful of Germans here, nobody would understand anyway, and the German(s) might be offended
My Swiss uncle once was asked by Americans whether they actually had reached the stage of having bath tubs in Switzerland.
Iris
Well, I have a “yellow foot” and a “fish head” staying in my house right now. I wonder if Iris or Rascal knows where they come from?
Is it really true that one out of 8.8 marriages here involves a foreigner of some kind, mostly Vietnamese? That seems high. This isn’t one of those cases where they mistranslated the number by a whole order of magnitude, is it?
I think racial divisions in the U.S. are comparable in intensity to the linguistic and ethno-national ones we’re talking about here (between Chinese and Vietnamese). So no problem with the “interracial” description in my book.
But, “interracial” (or whatever) marriages are often not comparable with each other. The situation of an American G.I who marries a Korean bargirl is subtly different from that of an American English teacher who marries one of his students, for example. You have to consider their ages, the amount of “mercenary” motivation, language and communication issues (like, how aware are they of each other’s cultures, and what they are getting into in general), and attitudes toward marriage and gender roles.
Unfortunately most combinations of races will not have a high enough population to meaningfully measure their success rates. Anecdotal evidence along the lines of “I knew a couple who divorced,” or didn’t divorce, or whatever, doesn’t help very much.
Mr. Science, I agree. Anecdotal evidence does not carry much weight. Maoman started this thread by asking about the likelihood of intercultural marriages succeeding. But it is obviously a sensitive topic that has inflamed some posters, leading to attacks and attempts to shift the subject.
Nonetheless, Holger and Tigerman, who are partners in intercultural marriages (though not to eachother), admitted that communication can be a problem in such relationships. Bassman, also partner in such a marriage, admitted that the cultural differences that make it interesting also make it more work. And Alien said, “I will never marry another Taiwanese man. . . Girlfriend. Fine. Wife? No f**** way!!” Alien, if it’s not too personal, I would be very curious to hear why you said that.
As for you Sandman, while I don’t know what “yellow foot” is, I do know “pussy foot”: to shy away from a definite commitment or from taking a firm stand. 
Evidently that’s the tactic some are taking here because they feel uncomfortable discussing the possibility that intercultural marriages could be different from or more difficult than others. I wish to thank those who do not feel compelled to pussy foot about but are willing to discuss this topic that is relevant to many of us. We’re all grown-ups, I think we can have a grown-up discussion.
There are also advantages by being in an intercultural marriage. It opens up a direct gateway to a new culture. Taiwanese women are more fenimine, very caring mothers and often give you the free space you (I) need in order to be happy. But I would imagine that the foundation for success is the same as for most other marriages: Mutual respect. (And then of course love, but that hopefully goes without mentioning)
My two cents - I disagree that it’s the differences that keep interracial/intercultural couples together. All couples, not just interracial ones, get along because of the things they have in common.
My Taiwanese wife and I are like chalk and cheese on the face of it, but when I really think about it, we also have a lot in common. Those differences can make married life fun or “interesting” at times, but they would not be enough to sustain our marriage without our also being similar in a lot of subtle ways.
Anyway, I believe that people in same-race marriages have just as many differences and similarities as people in interracial marriages. That would explain why the divorce rate is the same in both groups. However, as in all these kinds of discussion, more hard data is needed.
I’m sort of a “yellow foot” as well (I wasn’t born in the region, but grew up there and that’s what I consider one of my homes in Germany). As to “fish head”, for me, this more or less refers to everybody who lives north of the river Main
The German quote (your “yellow foot” should know it):
Es gibt halt Badische und Unsymbadische
I hope I didn’t offend Rascal, no personal offense meant! I don’t even know where he is from.
Sorry for getting off topic (the topic IS very interesting), but this is fun 
Iris
GLT does not understand the logical implication of his/her/its original post. (Hopefully.) That implication is that Asians are intrinsically inferior to Westerners in a way that no amount of education or travelling abroad can remedy.
Now, before you get all pumped up and angry about it, look at what you actually wrote.
Then, see if you still stand by it word for word.
If you do, we can really start having some fun with it.
I don’t wish to quibble over wording. I’d rather discuss Maoman’s subject – whether intercultural marriages are less likely to succeed.
But you misstated my position (and defamed me), so I must respond. I do not feel that Asians are intrinsically inferior to Westerners. I asked in my original post whether, “no matter how well educated and traveled the asian woman might be, her culture and background are so different that [perhaps] there will never be the same level of understanding that two from the same culture might experience.” Part of that, I suggested, is that “there seems to be a lack of understanding [among locals] of so many things in the outside world. . .”
Tigerman agreed that many of his Taiwanese friends seem to have a surprising lack of understanding of world events and or history and he provided some good reasons. First, those of us over here are interested in the greater world and may have a greater understanding of the larger world than our more provincial friends who stayed home, and those we meet here may be more akin to our provincial friends back home. Second, our education systems are probably better. I agree with both possibilities.
I don’t know what they spend so many hours studying here because, like Tigerman, I have been surprised at some of the simple trivia that people I encounter here do not know, whether it concerns history, geography, physics, biology, etc. I don’t attribute that lack of knowledge to intrinsic inferiority, but I do think most Taiwanese receive an abysmal education (and I was fortunate enough to receive a good one). Maybe it’s all that emphasis on ancient chinese history and learning english at the expense of everything else. In addition, here they translate the names of all people and places into Chinese whereas we don’t do that as much in the US, so it is easier for us to recognize the names of foreign people and places.
Coupled with the lousy education are the cultural differences. I taught writing classes to over 300 employees of Taiwan’s top law firm and I discussed with my students some of the differences between their writing and what westerners consider to be good legal writing. Today most westerners would agree that good business writing should be direct and to the point – don’t waste the reader’s time. But many of my students had trouble writing directly to the point, and some explained that Chinese thinking is circular whereas western thinking is linear and logical. I’m not completely sure what that means but I find it intriguing – the possibility that Chinese (and Taiwanese) may have difficulty writing strong western style business or legal writing because they think differently.
So, I do not feel that Taiwanese are intrinsically inferior to westerners. But I do question whether, due to the different cultures and background, there will never be the same level of understanding that there would be between two from the same culture.
“So, I do not feel that Taiwanese are intrinsically inferior to westerners. But I do question whether, due to the different cultures and background, there will never be the same level of understanding that there would be between two from the same culture.”
I think this is absolutely true.
I have spent most of my life studying Chinese history and culture and language… and still, nearly every day, my Taiwanese/Chinese wife or in-laws or friends or co-workers or the Taiwanese guy or gal on the street does something that simply blows my mind.
This is also the reason that I took my wife to the States to live with me for 7 years after we were married… so that she would have an opportunity to see, literally and figuratively, where I am coming from, and so that she could experience the wonder and frustration of living in a foreign land. This has, I am certain, helped us to overcome many of the obstacles that exist due to our completely different cultural backgrounds.
Comment: This is a very interesting discussion.
I recall many years ago some Japanese researchers declaring that the Japanese brain was ‘wired differently’ to the Westerners, or that there was a difference in the ‘firmware’, not just the OS or language pack as it were. I always thought the differences in perception were largely the result of the Confucian education system, but maybe the Japanese are onto something.
Don’t be too sure. According to Japanese researchers, Japanese bodies are superior to western ones, Japanese are smarter than westerners or other Asians for that matter (which might explain the pickle, Japan is currently in), Japanese food is healthier and more suitable to the body’s needs than other foods. I have heard that they actually teach (or used to teach)that kind of “facts” at universities in the land of the sinking 
sun 
.
Koreans should be doing the same kind of research, I think. However I have thank God not run into that kind of rubbish here.
Some of the things people don’t know here are a little astounding sometime. Then again if I asked people back home what they language they spoke in China they would say Chinese, maybe 10% would know there are many Chinese languages, like chalk and cheese to each other.
Much like I told some people I was coming to Taiwan and they told me to be careful in BangKok. All educated people.
I have to agree with Tigerman that it can be difficult to have esoteric conversations here or discuss the nature of things.
I mean it’s not entirely their fault if they don’t have interaction with foreigners or rarely a chance to go overseas, that their cable TV are cheap American clones. Few people ever ask me what life is like in Europe or overseas except the people who have returned from abroad. THere’s just not much of a connection possible on a whole host of subjects that would be my regular conversation back home. Sport…nope except for basketball or baseball
Weather…usually just hot here although typhoon talk gets them going as does earthquakes
Cars…that’s a biggie, the guys can talk about car non-stop (no difference there)
Computers…s*&t the girls know more about that than I do here
Medicine…don’t even get started talking about cures, but you have to hold your tongue here as they are sensitive to my well researched view that Chinese medicine is baloney.
Food…whole lunch hours can go by talking about the intricacies of a piece of abalone in a bowl. Still I’ve learned a lot
What did you do on the weekend…still waiting for somebody to surprise me someday ‘Hey man I went skydiving, but my primary chute broke and I freefell for 2000ft until the secondary popped out and I landed in a tree in CKS’, rather than slept, ate, slept ,ate
Sunday…the Taiwanese day of rest. Christianity states sunday is a day of rest. Taiwanese really BELIEVE it is a day of rest
DaLu (mainland china)…there is always one or two guys talking about how great it is in ShangHai and why don’t I go with them with a big grin.
Politics…today people talked about the mayoral race at lunch , a major breakthrough for ethnic relations in the office!!!
Sex…nope
History…That was in the Qing, no the Tang, no the Qing
no other history exists outside the middle kingdom. I know more about the history of Taiwan than they do (look at school books and you can figure it out)
I think living in non nation due to historical events is to close for comfort so people don’t want to talk about that, recent history never did anybody any good here.
Totally agree. And as for the poster who is so much smarter than his wife (or thinks he is) – that must be a real sacrifice, but you must have known she was a dummy before you got hitched.
Tigerman wrote:
That is a wonderful idea! I think that would go a long way to clearing up cultural confusion.
As for Gao Li Tsai’s statement about missing out on intelligent conversation with a Taiwanese female, I think that most (not all) women aren’t as fired up about politics and war, etc. as men are. Most of the women that I’ve come across, here on in the States, haven’t cared much about those things.
So what? I don’t think you can expect to get all your emotional, physical, spiritual needs from one person anyway. Wouldn’t it be better to have a caring person as a mate and then have these types of talks with your buddies?
Non-cross cultural relationship here… but did date a man from Ecuador for over a year. Cross-cultural relationships are different… not better -not worse- than same culture relationships.
That being said, my relationship with the Ecuadorian failed, in part, due to what I saw as cross cultural differences, his upbringing vs. mine… and this guy had been raised most of his life in NYC and even served in the USMC. But, that did not change some of his cultural biases, and I had/have my own. To end the relationship however was my prerogative and was my deal…
[quote=“chessman71”]
So what? I don’t think you can expect to get all your emotional, physical, spiritual needs from one person anyway. Wouldn’t it be better to have a caring person as a mate and then have these types of talks with your buddies?[/quote]
Chessman, however, to your point. Having been married to my current spouse for more than 6 years (and having done the whole marriage thing once before).I can tell you, no, you won’t find it all in one person, but you damn well better have more than just fluff… Lets face it a warm caring person, or for that matter, a hot passionate sex thing, can really only take you so far. I really think that warm and fuzzy can get annoying after a while and passion fades, so you have to have something else to hold the relationship together. Trust me on this one-I think long term I would much rather be married/comitted to a partner that I can talk to, rather than hello kitty or her hot stud muffin boy Daniel.
jmho
Kristy
As a paraglider pilot I hear this one (and see it) all the time, but then these aren’t the sort of people who spent much time in a classroom, English or otherwise… so you might not meet many
Oh, Holger: IIRC, the Japanese were saying their brains were ‘different’, not ‘superior’. I thought that dropping all the dollars on ‘research’ like that rather proved their point
Can we not stop all this and get back to bashing Americans?
A Scottish friend of mine went over to Atlanta to work in a shop one summer to find the manageress had painstakingly prepared a list of English phrases she had to learn so she could talk to the customers. Things like “Can I help you, madam?” and “We accept all major credit cards”, that sort of thing. And when my sister worked for the Scottish tourist board, the amount of people who asked if they could use U.S. dollars in the public telephones just wasn’t funny. There was also this one (probably apocryphal) story about an American who asked if there were any photographs of the hill Edinburgh Castle stands on before they built the castle.
Note to Americans: I love you all really. In fact, some of my best friends are septics.
Or the American tourists on Princes Street looking up and admiring the castle:
“Sure is mighty purty, and all, but you’da thunk they could of build it a bit further away from the railway.”