[quote=“Rory Butternuts”]No matter where they’re from women are mysterious creatures with limited powers of reasoning and poor driving skills, especially when they take that monthly trip to the ‘dark side’.quote]
LOL! In the words of the runt (aka Todd Rundgren) regarding women:
“They may be stupid but they sure are fun…”
[quote=“Rory Butternuts”]
I’ve got a Taiwanese girlfriend and I don’t understand her any less or any more than my last bird. At least this one can cook fish properly and doesn’t have an irrational hatred of all my mates.[/quote]
I’ve got to agree with this one. I think that communication problems exist no matter who you’re dating/married to. Marrying someone from a different culture can complicate that but a lot of posts in this thread sound like general men/women problems to me.
The trip to the dark side bit … do you mind if I quote you… steal it and claim it for myself???
LOL rolling on the floor
I guess most of the people writing here are “travellers” - been there - done that. The fact that we are here is probably because we have nomadic adventurous spirits and this results in us learning along the way. We do our travels by ourselves and make our own mistakes. We are curious, always looking for new experience and in general, the more we travel, the more open minded we become. We mix with similar people (with some exceptions) who have had similar experiences and who are able to discuss, in depth, a multitude of topics. We are not representative of our fellow countrymen. Going home we find the same cross-section as we find here.
Would we be the same if our trips had been limited to group tours for 4 days with the help of a tour guide?. Would we be the same if out home TV was limited to the news of the latest scooter crash, the birth of the presidents grandchild and all the other waffle that represents news on the local media?.
Would we be the same if our history lessons focused on one country?, or skipped hugh chunks of history in this country?. Ask a Taiwanese anything about aborigine uprisings against the Japanese and watch the blank look.
Ask a Taiwanese about anything controversial, and unless he/she has lived abroad or travelled extensively - the answer is “no opinion”.
The point is that with the same exposure as we have had, with the same openness of education that most of us have had, I believe that any like minded person would develop and grow to the limit of their ability. So Taiwanese are not inferior, just under-exposed.
tongyo,
Yes… I agree with that assessment.
GLT.
Hi.
I weighed up the options you gave me and decided…
I’d far rather fight.
To quote you:
“My question is therefore whether, no matter how well-educated and traveled your asian partner might be, the western partner will inevitably sacrifice some intelligent discussion particularly about events and ideas outside of her country? Won’t discussions often be in a quasi teacher-student fashion rather than as two equals? I realize one may gain other benefits that offset that disadvantage, but I wonder if most would agree with that assessment?”
So, NO MATTER HOW WELL-TRAVELLED or WELL-EDUCATED the Asian is, they will still be a STUDENT and the WESTERNER a TEACHER.
Please to explain, meester.
Guest, I think its just that GLT is just dead, dead clever. He probably has trouble containing his impatience at all us dozy Segue gits that can’t even string a sentence together.
Give him a break – he feels he’s married to a thicko and that he spends his time in a country of thickoes – it can’t be easy for him!
Sandman: my impatience is not with those who can’t string a sentence together; it’s with those who don’t know how to read. You too have repeatedly misread my posts. I’m not married and I never said that I am, despite you twice making that claim. Apparently resentment over being married to a thicko is your own personal issue. In any event, it seems you got irked by my suggestion that it’s harder to engage in serious conversation with some Taiwanren than it is with some westerners. But I’m hardly the first to make such a suggestion.
Both of you–Sandy and my anonymous tormenter–if you don’t like what I said, read Tonygo’s post, and all the similar posts by others. Many have said exactly what I was saying but for some reason did not get a rise out of you.
For the record, anonymous guest, I do not believe that Taiwanren are inferior or that their brains are constructed differently from anglo-saxon brains. As I said in my initial post, if communication is more difficult on some subjects it is due to different background, culture and the other factors mentioned by Tonygo and others. At least four men married to Taiwanren all concurred with that point in this discussion. So, can you please remove your teeth from my leg and let me get on my way.
Does anyone else recall the days when all the communication problems could be blamed on language, and you’d tell yourself “it’ll be ok when I can speak Chinese”? Anyone else found that much of the time, the frustration was not the result of deficiency in language ability at all, and you are still frustrated at not being able to get your point across?
Lack of common experience is as much a barrier to communication as is lack of a common language, maybe even more so.
GLT
A radical change of stance… excellent.
“it’s harder to engage in serious conversation with some Taiwanren than it is with some westerners.”
Errr… yes… and its harder to engage in conversation with some weserners than it is with some Taiwanren. (Your series of posts being a case in point.) So… errr…hm… some Taiwanren are thick… and errr…(scratches head)… so…err… are some westerners.
(Big mental effort required now to follow the logic through to its conclusion.)
So, its education of the individual that counts not where they are from.
So, we can dispense with the Asian/Western bit, 'cos its not part of the equation… and we can logically reply to your initial question with a “No! Its not inevitable that the Westerner must sacrifice intelligent conversation.”
Excellent.
Good to have you come round to our way of thinking.
And if my anonymity scares you, you may call me rubber-ducky…
Wow, Gao Li Tsai, is it possible that rubber ducky is your girlfriend? :mrgreen:
Actually I’ve met some Taiwanese girls whom I can’t have meaningful conversation with for more than 3 hours (not because of race difference of course). They are cute, pretty, and drooled on by many men (including foreigners), though. When looking for mates, some men choose beauty and cuteness over intelligence, some men choose the other way around. Can we have both? Sure, just keep looking!! or else compromise.
I’ve somehow picked up the impression that most Taiwanese guys not only go for looks over intelligence when seeking out girlfriends, but also run a mile from any gal who is smart enough to be able to stand up for herself, assert her intellectual equality (or, God forbid, superiority), and threaten his prospective mental dominance. Has that been your own experience, B.B.? And could that perhaps in part explain why some very smart ladies have been conditioned to suppress their mental sharpness in social situations, in order to make themselves more acceptable to potential suitors?
And while we’re on the subject of inter-cultural relationships and we have B.B. on thread: How’s that thing between you and Rascal coming along, if we may ask?
For what my opinion is worth, marriages will likely fail if there is/are;
All of the above will supersede culture or race.
nox opined:
"For what my opinion is worth, marriages will likely fail if there is/are;
I agree with most of what you said, especially as you used the words “likely fail” rather than some other absolute term. However, I think the factor above least determinative is that of different educational bacgrounds. I think if the couple involved is sufficiently mature and has considered this difference prior to getting married, it should not make any difference.
My father taught me, by example, that people with academic degrees after their names are not necessarily intelligent in all ways and people who haven’t been educated in school are not necessarily unintelligent (and vice-versa) It takes recognition of this fact by both parties to a marriage to make this (different educational backgrounds) a non-factor in the likelihood of success or failure in a marriage.
What??? :shock: Not again!!!
What you said about me is purely your imagination, creative and imaginary but not true.
I’m not stupid (most of time), but far from smart either compared to hundreds of Taiwanese women I admire;
I did meet some Taiwanese girls who only care about few things in their lives, and I can’t have many topics to talk with them;
What’s wrong with it for a girl to stand up for herself if she’s attacked? Men can, but women should cry and keep quiet? This is 2002, Mr. (I assume you are male) in case you don’t know;
I don’t think I’m superior to the majority of Taiwanese girls. When you guys were criticizing them, I’m the one who stood up for them, not you;
You have stereotypes about girls. A girl can stand up for herself, think independently and try to stay smart, but still have loving and caring personality when facing friends or romantic relationships. Why are you men so scared about the change of traditional sex roles? No wonder women activists in 70s’ said men’s mindset should be liberalized too! ha! ha!
Is that my own experience? I’m neither beautiful nor smart, but I’m happy about my looks and my willingness to think, thanks.
“Some very smart ladies have been conditioned to suppress their mental sharpness in social situations, in order to make themselves more acceptable to potential suitors?” ehhh, let’s put aside the right or wrong of your points first, but I think you also confuse a person’s debates or discussion in open forums on internet with her (or his) interpersonal skills and personal relationships.
What??? :shock: :?: :shock: :?: :shock:
Er, B.B. … I don’t quite know how to put this without danger of being misinterpreted, but I’m rather confused by your strange response to my posting. I think you have managed to thoroughly misread what I wrote, apparently construing it as some kind of criticism of you and Taiwanese women. In fact, it’s more or less the opposite of what you think it is!
I asked you for an opinion because I know that you are one of the few Chinese girls to post in this forum, and I’d like to have your take on what I wrote. I can’t for the life of me see how my remarks could be construed as in any way derogatory toward Taiwanese gals, whose socks I love to a state of total offness.
My inquiry about you and Rascal stems from my perusal of an amusing thread from a month or few back about lonely-hearted Westerners seeking to meet. In that thread, you and Rascal exchanged a few posts about wanting to get together for a date, and I was wondering how it worked out.
Did I misinterpret your post? I don’t know, yours sounded aggressive and hostile to me as soon as I read it. Besides, there are some “strange” male laowei over there, and you asked a very rude and stupid question at the end of your post. How would I know if you were not picking on me, trying to distort what I said in that post of mine, and accused me of feeling superior to other Taiwanese girls, “asserting intellectual quality (or, God forbid, superiority), and threatening men’s prospective mental dominance”, in a male chauvinist tone? Was I overreacting or too sensitive? I would be willing to apologize if I did misunderstand your words.
Anyway if you asked for my opinions, I would say many (not most, but who knows?) Taiwanese guys (I suppose foreign guys too, no?) go for looks over intelligence when seeking girlfriends. And they run 10 miles away from gals who assert intellectual quality and threaten men’s mental dominance. However, intellectual girls don’t necessarily try as hard as they can to show off their intellectuality, and don’t necessarily threaten men. Some men easily mistake those girls with intellectual quality for arrogance or sense of superiority. Or men have dominant tendency easily misunderstand girls who have their own opinions and not echo men’s will threaten them instead of being able to get along with them well.
Can’t say I agree with you on this. To meet their big egos, some men want “very smart” girls conditioned to suppress their mental sharpness not only in social situations but also in personal lives. Some, however, know how to appreciate smart girls, not feel threatened at all, and enjoy the interesting and intellectual interaction between the both parties.
Still, this is not an either black or white issue. I mean, most girls are not extremely beautiful/ugly or extremely stupid/smart, they fall on somewhere in-between over the spectrum. Men too! Do you think all men are clever? Not only men choose, girls choose too! Why does a really smart girl want a stupid boyfriend (oops! Will I wake up in the morning only to find out I have more enemies?!) But there’s no wrong or right about this. You just choose your type whom you 're happy with, whatever his/her race is.
Well, knowing full well the tremendously disadvantageous limitations of my own intellect, I actively looked for a girl who is not as dull as myself… I wanted to avoid a “blind leading the blind” situation, such as my mother frequently warned me. Fortunately for me, my wife is both physically appealing and mentally sound… I guess I have it made in the shade, n’est pas?
[quote=“B.B.”]Did I misinterpret your post? I don’t know, yours sounded aggressive and hostile to me as soon as I read it. Besides, there are some “strange” male laowei over there, and you asked a very rude and stupid question at the end of your post. How would I know if you were not picking on me? I would be willing to apologize if I did misunderstand your words.
[/quote]
Well, B.B., let me start by refreshing your memory on an exchange of posts between you and Rascal in a thread entitled “Other than bars, where do lonely (Western) hearts go to meet?” that appeared on this forum a couple or so months ago.
Rascal wrote:
Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2002 1:35 pm
Maybe at this point we should arrange a meeting ourselves!?
Any suggestions where, when and how to - if you are interested that is!?
With “where” I mean what kind of place, not a name (not yet).
To which B.B. replied:
Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2002 8:29 pm
Wow, thank you. But I’m Taiwanese. I join this thread because I wonder too about the “where can two lonely hearts meet?” question, not because I’m a foreigner looking for another foreigner. So if you don’t mind meeting or going out with a local girl, then I would say “why not?”
But I’m ill at ease to set up personal meeting with somebody PUBLICLY. So if you are still interested, please send me private message for this. Well, just talking, and then meeting, or going out, not too serious or too fast YET, right?!!!
B.B., if you post messages like that on an open forum, you can hardly take umbrage when other people refer to it or ask you about it. And if someone does make a friendly and pleasant inquiry about it, and you respond by flinging words like “rude” and “stupid” at the inquirer, you are gravely in breach of the basic universal standards of civility. I would never address an impolite remark to another person, either to his face or on-line, and I take offence when such remarks are addressed to me – especially when they are totally unwarranted by anything I have said or done. So, if you have sufficiently understood what I have written here, you certainly should deliver a prompt apology, and then I will be glad to forget all about it and resume a dialogue with you in an appropriate manner.
Oh, my god, you brought up my embarrassing memory. What the heck I was thinking to join that thread? I was naughty and bored back then, so joined an interesting thread (doesn’t look too interesting now) on net, but did not know I would have stayed in Segue in the name of B.B. (I even chose the stupid name on purpose) till now! I should have changed my username long time ago!
The truth is, when I read the post of Rascal’s a few more times later, I realized he did not address that post to me, but to all the posters in that thread. Now you know why it was/is embarrassing to me? Delete that post! Hit the blue button and ban me for good, for Christ sake! 
Don’t take it personally. I said your question( not you) was rude and stupid because you were asking me a very personal question (rude?), and triggered my embarrassing memory (stupid?). Besides, if “I’m ill at ease to set up personal meeting with somebody PUBLICLY”, how would you think I would want to discuss follow-up of that matter PUBLICLY with you, an irrelevant third person (stupid?)?
Maybe I’m conservative or shy on this or we have different recognition on “personal questions”. If we were setting up a group meeting on an open forum, then it’s fine that you ask about it, but personal dates? Never! Besides, there’s another poster involved in your question! Actually I feel sorry for Rascal because I might embarrass him too by responding his post that way!
I don’t know why you are so interested to know (get a life, will you? 
), but anyway let me put it this way. If a poster of Segue ,say, Omniloquacious (ah, lucky you), and I, talk about maybe setting a personal meeting (prospective romance) on an open forum of Segue, you and I may or may not exchange private mail later, and even if we do exchange private mail, we may or may not meet up. Even if we do meet up, we may or may not hang out together as only friends. And even if we become friends, we may or may not develop romantic relationship later. And even if we have a romantic relationship later, we may or may not break up finally for whatever reason. Whichever situation it is, I will not put it on discussion on Segue.
er, but I’m just so hoping you don’t resume the dialogue on this topic with me!