I thought we did, but did a search and nothing that matched my question.
How so?
Why not? It’s up to you. If they want to read the site, who are you to stop them?
I guess I forgot to mention that I told my students to read it, not post. Their ability isn’t good enough to post.
Exactly what I’m doing with this Monday class.
So I see it’s going both ways for everyone’s who’s answered so far. My students were quite surprised and intrigued by this website, that there was a whole online community of foreigners in Taiwan. I mentioned I know this or that poster in real life and they asked questions like do they act like how they post, etc. I can’t guarantee that they won’t tell other people about this site, other people who probably would come online to post junk and LE partners, but it took me a while to understand this class enough to introduce this site to them.
By the way, about the LE ads and looking for friends, I told them if they come online and post that kind of stuff they will get banned IMMEDIATELY.
I didn’t tell them I was 914. But I have a feeling they know already.
I see no harm in people reading Forumosa to practice their reading comprehension skills. They should be aware that, as an open forum, there will be errors, typos, slang and even gibberish they’ll have to wade through, but with proper guidance it can only make their skills stronger. As for the few who decide to post - well, we’ve seen it happen before. See what Tetsuo said above about wheat and chaff.
I know a few Taiwanese folks who post here. I quite enjoy reading their posts. It can’t be easy with the prevailing circumstances and I raise my hat to any and all Taiwanese who dare posting their two cents. I could not care less about poorly written posts because I know they are writing in their second language, something I got hassled for myself in the past.
I find the responses telling Taiwanese that their post is shitty English to be rude, inconsiderate and very selfish. I wish there were more Taiwanese participating in the discussions regardless how well or not so well written they are.
Thumbs up to the power that be for keeping an open door policy. In my opinion it’s closed doors that could harm this community, not the other way around. Seems like common sense to me but go figure…
[quote=“bobepine”]I find the responses telling Taiwanese that their post is shitty English to be rude, inconsiderate and very selfish. I wish there were more Taiwanese participating in the discussions regardless how well or not so well written they are.[/quote]Maybe I’m just Internet-jaded, but I expect exactly that response whenever I try and use Chinese online. I figure expecting it is a useful defense mechanism: if you aren’t confident you could either tolerate shit-talking or write well enough to avoid said shit-talking, you’re probably not ready.
I find places like Daves Cafe chat to be a better place for people whose Engleesh skills are not up to handling sarcasm, irony, slang and sarcasm in conversation.
I too would prefer real live Taiwanese to post here. It would be great to here from them. :bravo:
I am no native English speaker (well I guess you all know anyway, reading my postings shows it more than clear). So do I have to take some lessons and make a test to get a license or something like this now?
I think, it should be more inportant how somebody behaves and what he can bring into the online cummunity (like sharing information, point of views, etc.) than just his skills in English.
I know I am still quite new here and I appriciate to have this site so maybe it is not my part to say to much, but I rather prefer an active community with a wider range of oppinions and views than one which is perfect in some language skills but maybe also useless as nobody (or to less) can take part.
As long as somebody tries to be part and does this in a way which is accaptable I can’t see a problem, no matter if he is native speaker, Taiwanese or a guy from any other part of this globe.
Sorry to give me 2 Cent in with my poor attempts to express myself in a language which is not my native one.
You know what Mingshah? I just realised while reading your post how much I actually enjoy reading non-native english posts.
The context is quite different sometimes that it makes me think in quite different angles than I normally would…and that is a good thing.
I think the issue lies in the quality of posters/students being brought to the site.
There’s no problem with anyone reading the threads. A teacher could even be…well, a teacher…by selecting a thread that highlights something they want to center a lesson around, and printing out a copy of it (or even pulling the text out and re-arranging things to save paper!)
The thing I would not approve of would be a teacher saying to his or her class, “I want everyone to read F.com, and each of you must post at least 100 words before next week’s class.” That would lead only to a bunch of garbage posts. People who post because they have something to say is fine, and IMHO if they can manage to make their point in English it doesn’t matter if it’s perfect or not, but people posting because it is an assignment and nothing more are no different from the lovely kids who collar you on the street informing you that their teacher is forcing them to “interview” X number of random foreigners. It’s cute the first time, if you’re new to it, and maybe the second, and then it rapidly becomes less than appealing.
[quote=“ironlady”]The thing I would not approve of would be a teacher saying to his or her class, “I want everyone to read F.com, and each of you must post at least 100 words before next week’s class.” That would lead only to a bunch of garbage posts. [/quote]That has already happened once, and caused quite a bit of bother at the time.
I think we should invite some English speakers first.
I think Ironlady manage do say what I meant. It’s about the quality of your posting, and people who have been around for a while (if they can be bothered reading the garbage I write) will know that I usually don’t give non-native speakers a hard time over the language they use or how well they express what they want to say.
Take the ‘[url=I realize it is mission impossible to find a cordial western impossible[/url]’ thread as an example. Taiwanese person posts, is ridiculed for her poor English, and labelled shallow and racist. Compare and contrast my response to that of 914 before accusing me of being unfriendly.
It wasn’t a very good post, qualitatively speaking. (Is that a real word? It’s late and I’m tired.) Sure, you can ignore it. But you have to read if before you decide whether to ignore it. How much garbage do you want to wade through? How many times do you want to post comments like this one?
I would rather enjoy a site than feel that it’s necessary - or even acceptable - to talk to posters like that. Don’t invite 'em in the first place if that’s how you feel.
Personally, I’m not doing this for the benefit of your paying students. You want to print out what I or anyone else says then go ahead. I do the same thing, and I’ve also advocated a learner’s site running alongside f.com in the past. But I spend quite a lot of time every week dealing with adult english learners and their ideas. I’d rather not do it in my free time, unless they are people who have found their own way here and recognise that this is where foreigners come for a respite from their (the Taiwanese) world.
And don’t tell me to go somewhere else. This is somewhere else.
Well, it seems Ivich is going somewhere else. This place is public domain. Sorry, put if you post it, it’s fair game. At least you have the cloak of anonymity to hide beneath. I have used several threads and countless tidbits of information in my lessons and my planning. An old standby of mine stemmed from an old thread about superstitions. I have my studs act out (in mime if needs be) a local or western superstition and the others have to guess which one it is. After a few are acted out, I break them up into discussion groups to plan a presentation on the origins and rationale behind various superstitions. With advanced classes, we’ll get into some religious debate.
How often have you shared some insight you’ve gained at f.com with a class and your studs are surprised at how you could know such an intimate detail about Taiwan? Point 'em here. Have them find out for themselves what the big noses are thinking and saying. I’d love it if they took over their fair share of the posting, in fact, had their own private group where they talk about us…hehehe…
It’d be enough to separate the the teachers from the grammar (ugh) “nazis”, that’s for sure.
Looks like we’re back to this ancient disagreement aren’t we. I must admit to enjoy it more nowadays.
Unless the conversation/thread is about the ability to express yourself or to write in a second language, or some related topic, I can’t see the relevance in commenting on someones ability to write in a second language.
That’s addressing the messenger and not the message and that’s why Forumosa has very clear rules regarding respect and civility. Therefor I can’t see why non-native English speakers could not post here in peace of mind knowing that their writing ability is not an issue. I hope moderators can keep that in mind first and foremost. If Dave’s site is better for Taiwanese, then maybe we need to ask ourselves why, especially given the rules meant to push for diversity.
I think that while everyone is free to read, they are also free NOT to post if all they can contribute is some kind of address to the messenger in a less than complimenting way.
You mentioned something about being ready or “not ready.” It doesn’t add up to me. It doesn’t add up to me one bit, how and why does someone have to be ready to post on a bulletin board?
Oh…I get it…I get your point… It’s because…Yeah, I think I get this picture finally. It’s because there are too many assholes on the internet who enjoy bringing people down for whatever reasons they can.
Hard to argue with that frankly but to be honest that’s hardly any different than real life. So you’ll never be ready. Duck all you want, it will still hurt.
[quote=“914”]I told them to go home, check out F.com, and come to class today with some threads they’d like discuss or understand more about. They told me today they couldn’t understand most of F.com at home.
[/quote]
Gee, neither can I!
Seriously, I think this is a fine idea. I met my SO on Forumosa, and she came here looking to practice her English (by posting for an LE partner, not by posting in the forums, btw). What’s wrong with that? And what would be wrong with posting in the forums too? IMO, there are too many closed-minded foreigners on this site completely unaware of what locals think about the issues being discussed. When my SO has posted on 'mosa, she has shared funny pictures with us. She hasn’t burdened any of you with requests for corrections to her English. Even if she did post frequently in the forums, she’d be making fewer grammar and spelling mistakes than some of you native speakers! :raspberry:
Seriously, locals here need opportunities to practice their English too. What 914 is talking about is mostly them reading and trying to understand what we spew. What’s wrong with that? And what would be wrong with a little interaction, anyway? Why do y’all bother coming to Taiwan if you don’t want to converse with the locals anyway? Sheesh. :loco:
Personally, I think non-native speakers like mingshah and tetsuo are as much as strength of this forum as the canucks and kiwi’s and so on. Why do some of you welcome our European posters whose native tongue isn’t English, then object to Taiwanese posters whose native tongue isn’t English. I call that racism. Period.
[color=cyan]Just kidding of course, Tetsuo. [/color]
Posters have some idea they want to share, or they want to react to something that has been said, or they want to ask a question that would likely be relevant to the community. That’s because they have (hopefully) read the boards enough to understand their dynamic, and their English is good enough to grasp that dynamic pretty well. Maybe not 100% perfectly but that doesn’t matter – well enough.
Students are primarily concerned about practicing English. They should be directed to take their output of English to a site that furnishes opportunities for students of English to practice their English, rather than being directed to post on f.com.
The exception is when a student also is a poster – i.e., has a genuinely relevant thing to contribute to the boards. Statistically, you might suspect that one or two in a class might, but it’s unlikely that every student in a class would have something burning to say at the same time, hence, the idea that teachers should not direct students here specifically to force participation by those students.
Students directed to post here will not have lurked enough to understand the dynamic, and they will not have the level of English (I’m not talking native competence here, just a workable level) to contribute meaningfully. It will be just one more composition paper to slog through, without picking up the paycheck at the end of the day.
If teachers truly must have their students post to a native English speaking Web community, I would suggest they find one that is specifically NOT Taiwan-oriented. First, they would expand the students’ horizons more; second, people who are not in daily contact with students of English may feel that the experience of interacting with one on a bbs is novel and interesting, rather than unpleasant or imposed. Third, forcing students to go to a non-Taiwan-oriented board will make them contribute something based on their own ideas and interests, depending on what the board is about.
[quote=“bobepine”]Oh…I get it…I get your point… It’s because…Yeah, I think I get this picture finally. It’s because there are too many assholes on the internet who enjoy bringing people down for whatever reasons they can.[/quote]And you know what - that’s pretty much it in a nutshell, unfortunately.
Ah, but you see, that’s also my point - yes, there’s always going to be assholes, but the way you know you’re ready is if you feel confident that either you’ll be able to make few enough mistakes to mostly slip under the radar, or you’re tough enough emotionally to take whatever shit the assholes spew at you - and if you’re lucky, fling some back at them. In fact, you would be case in point: after a couple of false starts, you’ve managed to pull yourself up and stand up to any and all nastiness, shittiness, and general not-being-niceness that comes your way without losing your cool.
Aside from that, I think ironlady’s pretty much hit the nail on the head.
I’m not an English native speaker. I first got introduced to this site by my SO. (I asked my SO to make sure if SO meant as I’d figured when I first came across it. ) I didn’t visit here often until I inclined to read the custody-battle thread since that news caught my eye and my SO mentioned that there was a topic about it on Forumosa. I found it helpful as well as “enjoyable” while reading that thread because quite a few posters did investigate the case such as paying for a VIP member to get more information about Julie Cutie or questioning how the media had reported the news. So, as a reader, I think Forumosa does help. As a student who wants to increase general reading ability if his/her proficiency in English is good enough to understand, I guess it should somehow help, too.
any of you with requests for corrections to her English. Even if she did post frequently in the forums, she’d be making fewer grammar and spelling mistakes than some of you native speakers! :raspberry: 