Investing in a CNC machine

Next to my shop, is a guy with 2 CNC machines. He has a Bridgeport/Hardinge 3 axis CNC mill that he wants to sell and he wants 600,000NT for it.

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I told him that I would learn how to use the machine, and then if he could send me some work I would pay him a percentage of my profits from the work to cover the cost of the maintenance of the machine. I said I don’t really have 600,000NT lying around for a machine like this but I’d consider getting a bank loan for it if I can make good money with it.

So question is, are there a lot of work for CNC shops out there? This machine would take up half my shop and if I do end up buying it, I will probably get rid of the manual mill (what’s the point of having a manual mill when there’s a CNC machine sitting there?)

I can just think of a million possibilities a machine like this could open up, for guitar building and for a lot of other stuff…

Would it be a bad investment assuming I do have 600,000NT that I can afford to lose?

Are you a machinist?

I’m pretty proficient in manual machines, haven’t had any experience in CNC machines because I never had the cash to play around with it…

Make sure it’s a good price for the item in the current condition, so if it doesn’t work out you can sell it on. Maybe find someone with real experience with one to check it out. If he’s selling it, there’s a reason.

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Two things:

I’ve heard a few times that CNC is big in Taiwan, or that Taiwan is good at CNC. There’s work because companies use it for producing things that before used to be cast. However, who will come up to you for asking for getting stuff done? you need to do some research on prospective clients. Or perhaps you need to design and produce something in the meanwhile.

The second thing is… CNC is not a manual machine like the ones you are used to. AFAIK it’s used with CAD, you need to design or program something in your computer and then the machine will follow your design/instructions. “Autocad”, “Inventor”, and “3D Studio” come to mind but don’t quote me on this. Are you familiar with CAD? Not that it’s not possible to learn it, but you need to be aware of the way you work with these machines.

Since you are or used to be in the luthier business, think of tools or components that you could produce and distribute to shops.

That’s what I was thinking. You might end up with 600,000 worth of scrap metal.

AFAIK these things need regular maintenance and calibration, which can be a fair bit of money.

If you want to sell your machining services, sign up with one of the ‘maker’ sites who resell prototyping services.

A CNC machine of that vintage can’t operate directly from (say) a .STL file. I don’t think even the modern ones can. You have to learn the programming language for the machine, and manufacturing a part involves figuring out an efficient sequence of operations to create the desired object. You will probably need to go on a training course to learn how to do this.

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Made me think of this ebay ad from a well known guitar neck manufacturer getting rid of a cnc. maybe you can glean some info from it.

Also a friend of mine in the states was talking up mini-cnc’s that can be ordered from china or taiwan. That might something to look into as a more affordable way.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/For-Sale-LIMTECH-PEGASUS-Series-CNC-4-X-4-48-X-48/392235369663?hash=item5b530cc4bf:g:zd0AAOSwE9hcYBUm&frcectupt=true

I told him I’d learn the machine, and if he can introduce me to some work, I’d use and borrow the machine (and pay him out of the profits to cover his costs). I said if I can have consistent work with the machine I would buy it, but as of now I really don’t have the contacts to get work…

As for condition, it’s up and running in the shop and I see it everyday. So if there’s something seriously wrong with it I’d know. He’s selling it because it’s too small to meet his needs.

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Please do some research on how much profit margins are made are on these kind of 加工 work. It is very very small in Taiwan, and very competitive.

Of course, if you’re only paying out of your profits, it’s not really an issue, besides a waste of your time.

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I don’t think it’s small, but I’m sure it’s very competitive. And the OP is probably basically nobody in this business. Now, if he has contact in a specific market, like guitars / musical instruments, he could manufacture tools and components. But he has to factor materials, electricity and other costs. You have to sell a fuckload of shit for covering the 600k NT of initial investment…

share it with us.

I’m sure it’s competitive as hell but it beats working at 7-11 for the rest of my life.

I won’t invest in that much unless I can get some work where I would need it. Right now I’m fine with manual machines because I don’t have big volumes.

To be fair the guy has been introducing me to some people and stuff, so I may end up getting some work. I told him that for now I’d take on work and just pay him for machine time. Beats putting in huge amounts of money.

I also have to learn the machine first…

Do you have products CNC’d at the moment?

If yes.
What are the savings on having it made in house, over having it outsourced?

If not.
what is your market?
why would your potential customers come to you instead of a well established CNC workshop? What expertises do you bring that that can’t offer?

With both of these questions, how long would your be willing to wait before you see a return on your investment?

I rather borrow the machine to be honest with you. I simply don’t have the money. The guy says it’s easy to get a bank loan on a machine like this if you used the machine as a collateral (basically if you default they repo the machine) or if you have a decent amount of money that can be used as security.

I told him if he gave me some work so I could tell whoever that may be able to finance me for it that I can make money with it.

I have no idea how competitive the market is, as in is it something (like music, film, etc.) where you have to be the best of the best to have a shot at making minimum wage…

If you have one machine you probably can’t make that many parts in a short period of time. You probably want to chose a market that you want find customers in, so you should make a catalog of samples/products. Maybe you can do small runs for samples and prototypes, for which profit will be higher.

That being said some small laobans in Taiwan, would have their machine running 24/7. In order to make money.

It also sounds like your main competitor is the company next door who your getting your machine from. I would go down the rental option first and find your feet.

Why don’t you go visit a machine shop in Dongguan. They do everything & have s. O. T. A. Equipment.
Sunk costs are enormous
I have been to machine shops in Houston that can turn a turbine & don’t see how you could compete here.
Why not forget about sunset industries & get into designing and making something green?

Seeing how many machine shops they have here I think they make good money.

Otherwise no one would be doing it.

Almost nobody turns turbines outside of very special industries, and a lot of those machine shops are deemed munitions by the state department meaning the technology can’t be exported.

The seller makes scooter parts and he tells me he makes over 400k a month

I would tell you the same if I wanted to sell you a machine.

In every single industry I know of the prevailing opinion is always “ the market is small, saturated, too competitive, too little money”

Might as well not do anything.