Iran proves just how dumb the regime really is

Remarkable stupidity.

  1. If you’ve got the resources, do something with them. Don’t just ship out the raw goods.
    Look at Canada. We would never export raw oil, logs, minerals, fish… er… nevermind. :blush: (frickin’ idjits :unamused:)
  2. If you’re going to get in a pissing contest with the rest of the world (save China that doesn’t give a damn, so long as it can get what it wants, somewhere), get all of your ducks in row.

Hmm… do you think these marvelous managers thought it might be cheaper to build nukes than refineries?

[quote=“BBC: Protests at Iran fuel rationing”]
Iranians set fire to a petrol station in Tehran

At least one petrol station has been set on fire in the Iranian capital, Tehran, after the government announced fuel rationing for private motorists.

Iranians were given only two hours’ notice of the move that limits private drivers to 100 litres of fuel a month.

Despite its huge energy reserves Iran lacks refining capacity, forcing it to import about 40% of its petrol.

Tehran is trying to rein in fuel consumption over fears of possible UN sanctions over its nuclear programme.

Iran fears the West could sanction its petrol imports and cripple its economy. [/quote]

RIOTING Against the Regime in Iran!…pictures…oooo!

All is not happy in Persia…
Iranian Regime’s Heavyweight Gunned Down

Crumble it from the inside.

So you’re saying the first target will be the oil reserves?


Make 'em buy carbon credits for all that CO2

Crumble it from the inside.[/quote]

I have been saying that all along. Even Fred Shit subscribes to the wait and see what they do to themselves approach. Hopefully we can look forward to less US posturing on Iran; after all, they have enough on their hands.


But my wait and see comes with a time limit. I believe that yours is open ended…

Yes, it is always back to the US isn’t it? I guess that must be why France, UK and Germany are taking the lead on negotiating with Iran regarding its nuclear weapons development. No doubt, these three governments have been tricked by intelligence estimates that have been sexed up by Bush administration officials? Why even bother negotiating with Iran? And when these negotiations come to nothing, does the threat posed by nuclear weapons remain as serious then as it is deemed to be now or does it suddenly and miraculously become downgraded to one that is “viewed as a threat only by Bush administration officials working with flawed intelligence?”

I guess my view on this is that the US is the only nation in the world with a real military force that can be used to project power. I appreciate the fact that the British did so admirably in Sierra Leone. No doubt, your national anthem will be revised to incorporate the glorious military victory that you achieved there into its stanzas. The real issue is that in this post-historical world or at least in the view of those who ascribe to it, military power is no longer necessary. I disagree. I think that most national governments should be moving rapidly to achieve military readiness again. While many European nations spend $50 billion a year on defense, most of this is plowed into high-tech systems that are never used or even worse goes to paying for a bureaucracy that seems most interested in setting up the most generous benefits and pension schemes for itself. Sigh.

Sure Fred. If there is a chance to panic and turn to blindly flailing actionism no doubt you are amongst the first to head for it. I am with TC there … treat them like the Soviets and give them all the time they need to hit rock bottom with their antics.

Passiveness and a mere defensive mindset paid off very well for the U.S. in WWI, WWII and the Cold War and given what the “pro-active” project in Vietnam and Iraq have brought about it seems to confirm that picking and starting wars is not entirely the strong point of the U.S…

Except of course Fred has meanwhile found the sorceror’s stone and is willing to explain to us how to run a war without public support from at home. You know … that kind of thing lacking when America starts a war instead of having it declared upon and any of its territory or territory under its supervision being invaded.

And Games the German extraordinaire has as usual come up with a stance that is essentially do nothing because nothing can or should be done because like the status quo was like so cool and nifty prior to the US involvement. How are your “negotiations” with Iran going? Any progress to show using YOUR preferred methods after what three years? Smirk. OR perhaps Iran really isn’t a threat? You are just trying to keep your diplomats pleasantly occupied? your think tanks in full employment? haha Back to the Frankfurt school for you…

Uhm, didn’t the US escalate the downfall of the USSR with an arms race?

Uhm, didn’t the US escalate the downfall of the USSR with an arms race?[/quote]

Gosh and there I was thinking communism was such a crappy design that it eventually has to fold up given enough time. Glad you educated me now otherwise … you will also tell me more about how communism was supposed to lift off and achieve, well … anything in the long run?

About the arms race … sounds to me like arming up and then just wait and see rather than what Fred envisions: starting a war asap with a defnite deadline on … what’s your date again for Iran Fred? You can name some date, can you? You would not want to come off as “all bark, no bite” with your threats towards Iraq now, would you?

Now now now, games. Fred is the one who doesn’t like you. People get us confused sometimes. :slight_smile:

Their system was made to collapse sure, but making them focus their spending on arms they’d never use was helpful in speeding up the sinking of the boat.

Why don’t they use nuclear power for energy ? That is what they wanted the reactors for, right ?

I kind of had the impression that it was working the other way round. These socialist “people republics” with their regimented societies seem to have these tendencies to blow up their army and militarize their societies all by themselves. Must have something to do with a lot of guys in uniforms being necessary to “keep the faith” in the socialist miracle up.

In my eyes this focus on military spending is always there in dictatorships and that it was this dictatoric and militant character communism always ends up with which pushed the US into an arms race and not the other way round.

That eventually one reason the SU folded up has been that it lived beyond its means and that its army was part of this overspending is obvious. But I contest that this overspending was infused by the US.

But didn’t they have something like 25,000 nukes at one point?

Anyway, I said “escalate” and pushing down a falling man is easy. Was the Cold War a great victory for the US? That’s a more interesting question.

It was good for the Russia mob…

I wonder what kind of “internal collapse” you optimists are envisioning for Iran. Provincial secession? Not likely. The provinces are not divided along ethnic/religious lines, and a common religion and language bind together Iran’s various ethnicities. The provincial governors have no independent military forces at their disposal, and the mullahs who support them are universally in support of the Islamic regime. So nix that idea. How about just whacking the Supreme Leader? It would be pointless. He’s not a strongman holding together a weak, fragmented nation. The Assembly of Experts would simply choose a new one, just as they did when Khomeini died. So forget that too. Wait! How about that President guy in the seersucker that everyone in the West thinks runs the country? It would be even more pointless to kill him. He’s not a strongman either and one of his eight vice presidents could just take over (all which have been approved by the mullah-dominated Council of Guardians).

So how about those students, eh? I mean, there was this guy once with a sign that said um, like, “This is a university, not a seminary.” Plus I met an Iranian girl who refused to wear Islamic clothing, and I think she was a student or something. Oh! And she called herself “Persian” rather than “Iranian” to symbolize her disapproval of the repressive Islamic regime. And I think there was a protest once with 400 students and George Will wrote an article about how those disgruntled students are going to one day stage a coup. Or something. It’s totally happening! Long live the revolution!

Of course there are those pesky Revolutionary Guards to deal with, not to mention the regular military that benefits from the regime’s huge defense spending. But no matter, Fox News said “the students” are going to take over (note: not the students who swarmed over our embassy like locusts, apparently). Plus they have a high unemployment rate, which means there’s definitely going to be a revolution. Yeah!

and a nice kind of reminder as to what kind of people we are all dealing with…

[quote]EXCLUSIF LE FIGARO. Yeux bandés, menaces de mort, vidéo d’aveux sous pression… Plus de quatre mois après sa libération, le skipper français Stéphane Lherbier ose enfin raconter la torture psychologique subie pendant ses quinze longs mois de prison en Iran.

C’EST LA PREMIÈRE phrase que Stéphane Lherbier parvint enfin à comprendre, après trois jours de détention, d’angoisse et de confusion. « Ils veulent te tuer!, se mit à hurler, en anglais, le traducteur iranien. Ils veulent te couper la gorge. Et tu peux être assuré que personne ne retrouvera ton cadavre!» Il est 2 heures du matin, ce 2 décembre 2005.

Depuis son arrestation par des gardes-côtes iraniens, en pleine partie de pêche, au large de l’île d’Abou Moussa, dans le golfe Persique, le skipper français de 33 ans, installé aux Émirats, n’a pas eu le droit d’appeler son épouse. Ni d’adresser la parole à son compagnon d’infortune, le touriste allemand Donald Klein, arrêté lui aussi. Ils sont accusés d’avoir pénétré illégalement dans les eaux territoriales iraniennes.

Les yeux bandés à plusieurs reprises, les deux hommes ont été transférés par avion à Bandar Abbas, ville portuaire du sud de l’Iran. Il leur est impossible de saisir ce qui se passe. Jusqu’à ce réveil brutal, en pleine nuit, et ces paroles menaçantes, précédées d’une pluie d’insultes en persan, de pincements douloureux au niveau du cou et d’inquiétants bruits de gâchettes qui s’activent, comme pour un simulacre d’exécution.

«C’était trop dur à supporter. J’ai éclaté en sanglots», raconte Stéphane Lherbier, plus de quatre mois après sa libération. Il est assis dans un restaurant de Dubaï, aux Émirats arabes unis, où sa femme et sa fille l’ont attendu pendant quinze mois. La petite famille s’apprête à quitter définitivement ce petit émirat situé sur la rive du golfe Persique, face à l’Iran.

Les souvenirs de Stéphane Lherbier surgissent par bribes, comme un vieux cauchemar difficile à oublier. Des souvenirs gardés jusqu’ici secrets, pour ne pas compromettre la libération de Donald Klein, retenu plus longtemps, et qui en disent long sur les moyens de pression utilisés par les autorités iraniennes.

«Ils voulaient savoir si je savais utiliser une arme»

À Bandar Abbas, la première étape de leur incarcération iranienne, le jeu du réveil en pleine nuit se répéta pendant quatre soirs d’affilée. Toujours les mêmes insultes, toujours les mêmes questions. «Ils m’accusaient d’être un espion, d’avoir travaillé pour le MI5, les services de renseignement britanniques. Ils disaient que je m’étais rendu deux fois en Irak pour des entraînements militaires, que Donald était mon colonel, et que mon entreprise de pêche n’était qu’une couverture…», raconte Stéphane Lherbier.

Jusqu’à ce cinquième jour où, à la suite d’une visite médicale, l’espoir d’une libération se fait sentir. Stéphane et Donald sont transférés dans une voiture… Mais finissent par échouer dans une autre prison, nettement moins accueillante, où leurs cellules, infestées de cafards, sont séparées.

Nouveaux interrogatoires. Nouvelles menaces. «Ils voulaient savoir si je savais utiliser une arme. Ils me demandaient si j’étais en contact avec des diplomates français ou américains.» Ce n’est que le premier faux espoir d’une série à rallonge qui se poursuivra pendant quinze mois. «Il nous était impossible de comprendre ce qui se passait. On nous promettait une libération, et on se retrouvait dans un autre cachot, sans pouvoir distinguer le jour de la nuit.» Quelques jours plus tard, ses bourreaux simulent un procès militaire de quelques minutes. Dépourvu de moyens de défense, Stéphane accepte de signer une déposition entièrement rédigée en persan, avant d’être renvoyé dans sa cellule. «Ils se sont contentés de me faire comprendre que j’étais entré dans les eaux territoriales iraniennes.»

Dès le lendemain, nouvelle surprise. Réveillé par ses gardiens de cellule, Stéphane Lherbier est invité à revêtir des habits neufs. Et à s’asseoir aux côtés de Donald Klein devant une caméra… pour enregistrer une vidéo – un exercice qui rappelle celui, plus récent, des marins britanniques. Derrière un décor de fleurs en plastique, les deux hommes n’ont d’autre choix que de sourire et de flatter l’orgueil de leurs bourreaux, en vantant leur sens de l’accueil.

«J’ai cru que j’allais mourir»

Le lendemain, Stéphane reçoit sa première visite consulaire. La fin du tunnel approche et, à l’issue de l’entretien, ses détenteurs lui annoncent, encore une fois, une libération imminente… qui ne se produira pas. Quelques jours plus tard, le soulagement de sa première conversation téléphonique avec sa femme, le 25 décembre, sera d’ailleurs vite terni par sa condamnation à 18 mois de prison lors d’un procès expédié à la va-vite, le 5 janvier 2006. La peine maintenue en appel, le 13 mars, lui vaut un transfert à Téhéran dans la célèbre prison d’Evine. Section 209, tristement connue des prisonniers politiques.

Pendant six jours, Lherbier et Klein sont condamnés à partager une cellule miniature de 2 mètres sur 1,80, éclairée par la lumière violente d’un néon, de jour comme de nuit. «Impossible de bouger, de respirer. Nous n’avions que du riz blanc à manger. J’ai cru que j’allais mourir», raconte le Français. Le 21 mars, jour du Nouvel An iranien, les deux hommes sont finalement transférés dans une cellule collective où ils passeront le reste de leur détention. Lherbier sera emprisonné au total quinze mois pendant lesquels Véronique, sa femme, tentera de frapper à toutes les portes, en vain. Sa seule consolation : pouvoir faire le vol de Dubaï pour rendre visite, de temps en temps, à son mari. «On sentait bien qu’il y avait forcément quelque chose derrière cette histoire…», soupire Lherbier.

Ce quelque chose semble d’ailleurs n’avoir rien à voir avec le différend nucléaire opposant l’Iran à l’Europe, pourtant longtemps suspecté. D’après Donald Klein, c’est plutôt d’un marchandage dont il s’agissait. Récemment interviewé dans la presse allemande après sa libération, le touriste allemand fait référence à la volonté iranienne de l’échanger contre Kazem Darabi, l’assassin de quatre opposants kurdes, tués en 1992 sur ordre des services de renseignement iraniens dans un restaurant berlinois, et condamné en Allemagne à la prison à perpétuité.

«C’est la seule raison pour laquelle j’ai été retenu en otage», a-t-il confié au Stern en mars dernier. Depuis, l’information a été confirmée au Figaro par des diplomates occidentaux. Réuni à nouveau avec sa femme et sa fille, Stéphane préfère, lui, tirer un trait sur ce cauchemar. Dans leur maison des Émirats, les cartons sont prêts pour Paris, puis pour la Martinique, leur prochaine destination, loin des tumultes du golfe Persique. «Pêcher sans risque, c’est tout ce dont je rêve», dit-il. [/quote] … ienne.html


I don’t read French and I doubt I’m the only one. Could you summarize it for us?

We are dealing with thugs who play hard ball, and who do not even make the pretense of respecting human rights or rule of law. Where are the protests? NONE. They are all regarding Guantanamo where the biggest danger is gaining 20 lbs. Here we had a German and a Frenchman kidnapped in Iranian waters to pressure the government of Germany to release a thug who killed (assassinated) three Kurds. He was put away for life. What do they do? Grab two innocent victims, put them through 15 months of imprisonment hell while treating them with the utmost contempt, abusing their rights (FOR REAL) and where are the marches in Paris and Berlin? No, oh no, those are saved for the evil US. This is why I have such utter contempt for most of the West and its leading lights. IS this really what we have become as a civilization, an Oprah-lite, Paris-watching, moral reflex gagging Michael Moore believing, Noam Chomsky pretend reading people? Blah! Bleech!