# Iran's Leader "not so bad" when compared with Bush? **URL:** \ **Category:** International Politics\ **Created:** [September 25, 2007, 6:40am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/irans-leader-not-so-bad-when-compared-with-bush/40528 "2007-09-25T06:40:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![fred\_smith](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/f/3ec8ea/32.png) [@fred\_smith](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/fred_smith)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2007, 6:40am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/irans-leader-not-so-bad-when-compared-with-bush/40528/1 "2007-09-25T06:40:09Z")
Here is what one Palestinian “journalist” had to say regarding Ahmadinejad in comparison with Bush? Does he now understand why no one respects the quality of Palestinian “journalism?” [quote]Next to Bush, Iranian President Doesn’t Look So Bad Columbia University was correct to invite the Iranian president, and those opposing the invitation include individuals who do not tolerate any viewpoint other than their own, whether domestic or international. Iran is a major player in a region of strategic importance to the U.S… American diplomats are willing to meet with their Iranian counterparts to talk about Iraq; certainly American academics and students (and hopefully the public at large, via CSPAN’s television coverage) will get to hear the Iranian president’s opinions from his own mouth, rather than through the filters and spin doctors of the U.S.’s pro-Israel lobby. Ahmadinejad is no saint; plenty of what he says reflects intolerance and can be considered hate speech. Iran’s role in the Iraq conflict can be debated, but compared to what President Bush and his administration and army have done in Iraq, Guantanamo, and in other parts of the world, I think that the Iranian president doesn’t look so bad. I, for one, plan to hear what he has to say.[/quote] Okay… Would this Palestinian “journalist” like to compare any record or assessment of human rights, educational, social, cultural, economic and political freedom and achievement from a respect source? Let me know if this is needed, I can guarantee that Cuba and Iran are with North Korea at the bottom while the US scores consistently at the top in all areas. Daoud Kuttab Princeton, NJ Daoud Kuttab is a Palestinian journalist. He was born in Jerusalem in 1955. He is the director of the Institute of Modern Media at Al Quds University in Ramallah, and he is the founder and general director of AmmanNet, the Arab world’s first internet radio station. Close. Daoud Kuttab Princeton, NJ [newsweek.washingtonpost.com/post … ident.html](http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/postglobal/daoud_kuttab/2007/09/next_to_bush_iranian_president.html) ---
**Author:** ![TainanCowboy](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/tainancowboy/32/16118_2.png) [@TainanCowboy](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/TainanCowboy)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2007, 6:50am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/irans-leader-not-so-bad-when-compared-with-bush/40528/2 "2007-09-25T06:50:48Z")
Mr Smith - Please fix your links… darn it! ---
**Author:** ![the\_average\_white\_ma](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/t/df788c/32.png) [@the\_average\_white\_ma](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/the_average_white_ma)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2007, 7:11am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/irans-leader-not-so-bad-when-compared-with-bush/40528/3 "2007-09-25T07:11:16Z")
I love how that writer used the term “hate speech.” Enough already with the word hate, please… The Jena 6 were “hurt” by a “hate crime.” Now, this writer calls someone’s words “hate speech.” Are there really people out there who think they can legislate against hatred? I’m not accusing this writer of feeling that way, but by using the term he appears to support the absurd PC idea that by labeling words “hate speech” that somehow brands them even more abhorrant. I hate hot weather in summertime. Does that mean I should apologize to meterologists? I hate peas. Should I apologize for hurting the feelings of the podded veggie? I hate the Boston Red Sox? Does that make me an ogre unworthy of enjoying baseball? I love my hatred. Please keep it legal… ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_PBH](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/mr_pbh/32/230938_2.png) [@Mr\_PBH](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/Mr_PBH)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2007, 7:41am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/irans-leader-not-so-bad-when-compared-with-bush/40528/4 "2007-09-25T07:41:23Z")
[quote]I hate the Boston Red Sox? Does that make me an ogre unworthy of enjoying baseball? [/quote]No, it makes you sane. ---
**Author:** ![Juba](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@Juba](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/Juba)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2007, 4:17am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/irans-leader-not-so-bad-when-compared-with-bush/40528/5 "2007-09-26T04:17:15Z")
While Ahmadinejad has been President of Iran, Iran had not attacked, invaded or indeed had any military conflict with any other country (except, aguably, by proxy). This is clearly not true of George Bush. ---
**Author:** ![fred\_smith](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/f/3ec8ea/32.png) [@fred\_smith](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/fred_smith)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2007, 4:23am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/irans-leader-not-so-bad-when-compared-with-bush/40528/6 "2007-09-26T04:23:13Z")
> [@](#): > > While Ahmadinejad has been President of Iran, Iran had not attacked, invaded or indeed had any military conflict with any other country (except, aguably, by proxy). This is clearly not true of George Bush. Thanks for that. I needed a good laugh. The populations of Lebanon, Palestine, Israel, Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan and others may wish to differ with you regarding that invasion (even if only by proxy). So George Bush has invaded two nations and overthrown… Saddam and the Taliban. One would have imagined that this would make those who claim to care about human rights happy but no… but then… I am sure that some day communism will finally come into its own and we will have a workers paradise on earth. What does an ex-commie do in this world? I mean even China and Russia are capitalist, rapaciously so. Why even the worst excesses of the gilded robber barons of industry pale in comparison but where are your protests? Against the US and the Bush administration. How … cute… ---
**Author:** ![irishstu](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/i/45deac/32.png) [@irishstu](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/irishstu)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2007, 4:30am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/irans-leader-not-so-bad-when-compared-with-bush/40528/7 "2007-09-26T04:30:29Z")
I just picture Fred Smith starting threads like this and waiting with, well… I don’t know if it’s possible to connect two mice to a computer and have one hovering over refresh and another over the quote function, cos I’m sure those are the two buttons he presses most often. Anyway, a few others comment, but nothing that really contradicts him, then someone offers an opposing point of view, and BAMMM! In he goes with his quotes and arguments (many of which are just bollox, including his most recent). ---
**Author:** ![fred\_smith](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/f/3ec8ea/32.png) [@fred\_smith](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/fred_smith)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2007, 4:36am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/irans-leader-not-so-bad-when-compared-with-bush/40528/8 "2007-09-26T04:36:08Z")
> [@](#): > > just picture Fred Smith Not so soon after lunch is my august advice… > [@](#): > > starting threads like this and waiting with, well… I don’t know if it’s possible to connect two mice to a computer and have one hovering over refresh and another over the quote function, cos I’m sure those are the two buttons he presses most often. I aim to please… > [@](#): > > Anyway, a few others comment, but nothing that really contradicts him, then someone offers an opposing point of view, and BAMMM! In he goes with his quotes and arguments (many of which are just bollox, including his most recent). So bollox… or should that be bullocks? 1. Person A is concerned about human rights. 2. The human rights situation in Afghanistan under the Taliban was beyond bad. 3. The human rights situation in Iraq under Saddam was beyond bad. 4. Many human rights organizations hoped for the removal of said bad leaderships, blaming them directly for the bad human rights situation in Iraq and Afghanistan. 5. The US under George W. removes said regimes. Question: Will the human rights activists be happy or sad? 1. Person A is sympathetic to communism. 2. Person A claims to care about human rights. 3. Under communist governments bar none, human rights were terrible if non-existent. 4. Person A is from a Western nation where human rights scores are nearly perfect. Question: Which nation does Person A condemn most strongly? Yes, there is a lot of bullox (sic) on this thread… and on that we have finally achieved “consensus” and we all know how important THAT is! ---
**Author:** ![irishstu](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/i/45deac/32.png) [@irishstu](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/irishstu)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2007, 4:46am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/irans-leader-not-so-bad-when-compared-with-bush/40528/9 "2007-09-26T04:46:50Z")
Well, I will humour you a little more (btw, I spell it “bollox”, you may spell it how you wish). The thing is, people have different points of view. You seem to think your commander in chief can do no wrong. You are absolutely blind to the fact that the vast majority of the rest of the world have many more issues with him than they do with Mr Iran. There is no point arguing with you though, because you will never see the other side of the coin. ---
**Author:** ![fred\_smith](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/f/3ec8ea/32.png) [@fred\_smith](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/fred_smith)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2007, 4:54am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/irans-leader-not-so-bad-when-compared-with-bush/40528/10 "2007-09-26T04:54:42Z")
> [@](#): > > The thing is, people have different points of view. So far, I can accept this… > [@](#): > > You seem to think your commander in chief can do no wrong. Where did you pick this up from? Did I ever say that? > [@](#): > > You are absolutely blind to the fact that the vast majority of the rest of the world have many more issues with him that they do with Mr Iran. No. This is PRECISELY my point. I do understand that the world has more issues with Bush than the leader of Iran and given the “concerns” that they have based on the “principles” they claim to have, I would like to know how this is logically possible. Maybe you can help explain this to me? > [@](#): > > There is no point arguing with you though, because you will never see the other side of the coin. Au contraire. I have outlined very clearly Person A’s position as above. Do you disagree that this has been done so correctly? If not, please feel free to clarify. I am merely trying to understand “human rights activists” who have more of an issue with Bush than the leader of Iran. Would you like to help me understand this. I am all ears… ---
**Author:** ![irishstu](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/i/45deac/32.png) [@irishstu](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/irishstu)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2007, 5:13am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/irans-leader-not-so-bad-when-compared-with-bush/40528/11 "2007-09-26T05:13:31Z")
[quote=“fred smith”] Au contraire. I have outlined very clearly Person A’s position as above. Do you disagree that this has been done so correctly? If not, please feel free to clarify. I am merely trying to understand “human rights activists” who have more of an issue with Bush than the leader of Iran. Would you like to help me understand this. I am all ears…[/quote] I’m sorry, I have reread your initial post several times now and still cannot see any reference to human rights. Is it possible that you have twisted this thread into whatever works best for you? It wouldn’t be the first time. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_PBH](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/mr_pbh/32/230938_2.png) [@Mr\_PBH](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/Mr_PBH)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2007, 5:21am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/irans-leader-not-so-bad-when-compared-with-bush/40528/12 "2007-09-26T05:21:36Z")
[quote=“irishstu”][quote=“fred smith”] Au contraire. I have outlined very clearly Person A’s position as above. Do you disagree that this has been done so correctly? If not, please feel free to clarify. I am merely trying to understand “human rights activists” who have more of an issue with Bush than the leader of Iran. Would you like to help me understand this. I am all ears…[/quote] I’m sorry, I have reread your initial post several times now and still cannot see any reference to human rights. Is it possible that you have twisted this thread into whatever works best for you? It wouldn’t be the first time.[/quote] RUN FRED RUN! They’re on to ya!! Or change your name back to chewycorns. 😈 ---
**Author:** ![fred\_smith](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/f/3ec8ea/32.png) [@fred\_smith](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/fred_smith)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2007, 5:22am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/irans-leader-not-so-bad-when-compared-with-bush/40528/13 "2007-09-26T05:22:01Z")
The US scores perfect 1s in both categories… Let’s see how Iran does… [quote]Political Rights Score: 6 Civil Liberties Score: 6 Status: Not Free Trend Arrow Iran received a downward trend arrow due to government crackdowns on freedom of assembly. Overview Political and civil liberties continued to deteriorate in 2006 under the presidency of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. While the reform movement was dealt significant blows through government suppression of dissent and control over media outlets, there was growing frustration over the Ahmadinejad government’s handling of domestic policy. The government crackdown on peaceful demonstrations and strikes throughout the year also inhibited peaceful reform efforts. Negotiations over Iran’s nuclear program are at an impasse, and the country faces the serious prospect of international sanctions due to its refusal to suspend uranium enrichment activities. As a result the U.N. Security Council unanimously voted to impose limited sanctions. Ahmedinejad and his allies experienced a political setback in the municipal and Assembly of Experts elections in December. The June 2005 presidential election swept away the last bastion of reformist political power in Iran. While the Council of Guardians ensured a reactionary outcome by rejecting the candidacies of popular reformers, the victory of Tehran mayor Mahmoud Ahmadinejad over other approved candidates in a two-round election reflected popular desires for a change in the status quo. The son of a blacksmith, Ahmadinejad dressed modestly and lived in a working-class neighborhood. As Iran’s first nonclerical president in more than two decades, he campaigned on promises to fight elite corruption and redistribute Iran’s oil wealth to the poor and middle class. Ahmadinejad signaled his intent to further erode political and civil liberties by awarding the powerful ministries of Information and the Interior to hard-liners who have been implicated directly in the extrajudicial killings of dissidents and other egregious human rights abuses. He quickly began a wide-ranging purge of the administration, including the dismissal of 40 of Iran’s most experienced diplomats and seven state bank directors. The new president and many of the new appointees were veterans of the Iran-Iraq War. His government tightened restrictions on media and announced plans to impose more stringent controls. Human rights suffered, with increasing reports of arrest, torture, and execution. Sharia was also more strictly imposed than under Khatami. Nevertheless, most political power remains with the senior clerics and the supreme leader. Iran has further alarmed the international community through its actions relating to the latest conflict between Israel and Lebanon in July and August 2006. Iran has been accused of using Hezbollah, a Lebanese Shiite militia and political party, as its proxy against Israel. The summer conflict was sparked by Hezbollah’s abduction of two Israeli soldiers in a cross-border raid, and some analysts have theorized that Iran ordered the action specifically to draw Israel into a larger military clash. Iran remains accused of being a state sponsor of terrorism, not only through its support of Hezbollah, but because of its ties to Hamas, Palestinian Islamic Jihad, and Iraqi Shiite militias. In view of Ahmadinejad’s confrontation with the international community, fear of appearing unpatriotic reinforced a trend toward self-censorship in the Iranian media and inhibited public criticism of the president. More reform-minded Iranians have criticized Ahmadinejad for isolating Iran internationally and stifling civil liberties at home. As a result, Ahmedinejad and his allies experienced a political setback in the December 2006 municipal and Assembly of Experts election. Many candidates closely associated with Ahmedinejad were not victorious in either election as voters turned to more moderate voices. The recent elections in December 2006 for the Assembly of Experts were heavily vetted and even delayed by one month. The field of candidates fell sharply as the election cycle wound down; all of the women candidates were disqualified. However, voter turnout was at 60 percent for the municipal elections, and voters sent a strong message to the current conservative administration. Moderate candidates came out on top in both elections, although the Interior Ministry submitted an election bill in July 2006 that would involve the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps in the election vetting process and increase the voting age to 18, as well as impose new qualifications for presidential candidates. Corruption is pervasive. The hard-line clerical establishment has grown immensely wealthy through its control of tax-exempt foundations ( bonyads ) that monopolize many sectors of the economy, such as cement and sugar production. Iran was ranked 105 out of 163 countries surveyed in Transparency International’s 2006 Corruption Perceptions Index. Freedom of expression is severely limited. The government directly controls all television and radio broadcasting. Satellite dishes are illegal, though generally tolerated. However, there have been increasing reports of satellite dish confiscation and steep fines. The authorities have had some success in jamming broadcasts by dissident overseas satellite stations and recently made it illegal to cooperate with any Persian-language satellite channel. In December 2005, Iran’s Supreme National Security Council blocked the launch of an independent satellite channel, Saba TV, run by former Parliament Speaker Mehdi Karrubi. The Ministry of Culture must approve publication of all books and inspects foreign books prior to domestic distribution. The Press Court has extensive procedural and jurisdictional power in prosecuting journalists, editors, and publishers for such vaguely worded offenses as “insulting Islam” and “damaging the foundations of the Islamic Republic.” The authorities frequently issue ad hoc gag orders banning media coverage of specific topics and events. Despite a period of greater press freedom between the initial election of President Mohammed Khatami and a series of student protests in 1999, threats against and arrests of Iranian journalists have increased in recent years. Many journalists are banned from leaving Iran, and the Islamic Culture and Guidance Ministry announced in September 2006 that it would not allow U.S. reporters to work inside the country. The Ahmadinejad government holds that the duty of the media is to report and support government actions, not comment on them. Sensitivity over the nuclear issue at home and abroad has led to a greater government crackdown on news reporting. Use of “suspicious sources,” or sources that criticize the government, is forbidden. In 2006, the Iranian government shut down a number of newspapers that it perceived to be insufficiently supportive of the leadership and Ahmadinejad. Papers such as Sharq, Hafez, Nameh, Khatereh, and Karnameh have all recently been banned. They have been accused of “insulting religious, political, and national figures” as well as “fomenting discord.” State forces have also tried to influence editorial content, not only through arrests but by advising publications on the subjects they can cover and what sources they can use. The Intelligence, Security and Islamic Culture and Guidance ministries have instructed two state news agencies to coordinate coverage with them. In February, the Supreme National Security Council also instructed publications to portray Iran’s diplomatic efforts regarding the nuclear dispute as successful. In July, the government announced that journalists who criticized the government would be prosecuted. Two editors of reformist publications, Lutfollah Meysami and Issa Saharkhiz, were arrested in August. Meysami was found guilty of insulting and libeling the police and propagandizing against the system. Saharkhiz was sentenced to a jail term and banned from journalistic activity for five years for publishing anticonstitutional articles and propagandizing against the government, among other offenses. The press crackdown under Ahmadinejad is not only due to sensitivities surrounding the nuclear negotiations, but was also an effort to control information that could have impacted the elections for the Assembly of Experts and municipal councils. However, it is worth noting that Akbar Ganji, an Iranian journalist who was arrested and served a six-year prison term was released in October 2006 after paying a fine of US$163,000. His release followed numerous domestic and international appeals to the government and a prolonged hunger strike. The government systematically censors internet content by forcing internet service providers (ISPs) to block access to a growing list of “immoral sites and political sites that insult the country’s political and religious leaders.” At least a dozen journalists and bloggers (writers of internet journals known as weblogs, or blogs) were indicted or convicted of press offenses during 2006, and many more were summoned for questioning about their writings. In May, the Communication and Information Technology Ministry announced the creation of a central filtering site that would block access to unauthorized websites, identify internet users, and keep a record of sites visited. The ministry also announced the launch of a “national” internet later that year. Many internet sites of student groups and civil society organizations were shut down in 2006. Religious freedom is limited in Iran, which is largely Shiite Muslim with minorities of Sunni Muslims, Baha’is, Christians, Jews, and Zoroastrians. Shiite clerics who dissent from the ruling establishment are frequently harassed. Sunnis enjoy equal rights under the law, but there is discrimination in practice, such as the absence of a Sunni mosque in Tehran and the paucity of Sunnis in senior government offices. The constitution recognizes Zoroastrians, Jews, and Christians as religious minorities and generally allows them to worship without interference so long as they do not proselytize. Conversion by Muslims to a non-Muslim religion is punishable by death. The non-Muslim minorities are barred from election to representative bodies (though a set number of parliamentary seats are reserved for them), cannot hold senior government or military positions, and face restrictions in employment, education, and property ownership. Some 300,000 Baha’is, Iran’s largest non-Muslim minority, are not recognized in the constitution, enjoy virtually no rights under the law and are banned from practicing their faith. Hundreds of Baha’is have been executed since the Islamic Revolution in 1979. Discrimination and harassment against Sufi Muslims has increased. In February 2006, security forces in Qom attacked and detained hundreds of Sufis gathered in front of their house of worship to prevent its destruction. Following the election of Ahmadinejad, negative campaigns against religious minorities in Iran have increased through the state-controlled media. In March 2006, the UN General Assembly adopted Resolution 60/171, expressing serious concern about the continued discrimination against religious minorities in Iran. Academic freedom in Iran is limited. Scholars are frequently detained for expressing political views, and students involved in organizing protests often face suspension or expulsion by university disciplinary committees. In the months following his election, Ahmadinejad replaced the heads of at least a dozen major universities. In April 2006, Ramin Jahanbegloo, a prominent intellectual and head of the Cultural Research Bureau, a think tank in Iran, was arrested at Tehran airport and taken to Evin prison, a notorious torture center. There the authorities forced him to confess that he had conspired to overthrow the Islamic Republic, but he was subsequently released. Student political activists have also been targeted by the regime. In September 2006, over 50 liberal student-rights activists were ejected from their universities. The government has also prevented liberal student activists from registering for the new academic year, and has begun a campaign targeting liberal student organizations. Authorities bugged and monitored the movements and communications of student activists, even arresting some on vague charges. In July 2006, Ahmad Batebi, a well-known former student activist, was re-arrested and returned to Evin prison. The 1979 constitution prohibits public demonstrations that “violate the principles of Islam,” a vague provision used to justify the heavy-handed dispersal of assemblies and marches. Hard-line vigilante organizations unofficially sanctioned by the conservative establishment—most notably the Basij and Ansar-i Hezbollah—play a major role in breaking up public demonstrations. The Iranian government frequently disrupts peaceful protests and arrests participants. Even former officials are not immune. Former member of Parliament Mousavi Khoini was detained in June 2005 while attending a peaceful public protest. He has been held without charge, and has claimed that prison officials tortured him in order to force him to renounce past criticism of the government. As a member of Parliament, Khoini had repeatedly challenged the judiciary and intelligence services for human rights abuses. In July 2006, Iranian security services violently dispersed a peaceful assembly of women’s rights activists marking International Women’s Day. Police beat and arrested a number of demonstrators. Freedom of assembly was heavily restricted in 2006, as many more peaceful protests were violently dispersed by security forces. The constitution permits the establishment of political parties, professional syndicates, and other civic organizations, provided they do not violate the principles of “freedom, sovereignty, and national unity” or question the Islamic basis of the republic. Human rights discourse and grassroots activism are integral parts of Iranian society. However, human rights and civil society activists face many challenges. The security services routinely arrest and harass secular activists. In August 2006, the Interior Ministry announced the closure of the Center for the Defense of Human Rights, founded by Nobel peace laureate Shirin Ebadi, for failure to obtain a permit. The action was part of the ministry’s wider effort to control and regulate the activities of nongovernmental organizations (NGOs). Although permits are not required by law, the ministry has been imposing them and shutting down organizations that do not seek or qualify for them. Iranian law does not allow independent labor unions to exist, though workers’ councils are represented in the government-sanctioned Workers’ House, the country’s only legal labor federation. In the past year, there were more than 800 protests and demonstrations in Iran, many of which were labor related. In December 2006, a bus strike over the preemptive arrest of 14 bus driver association leaders and wage disputes caused traffic chaos in the capital. Security forces attacked and arrested hundreds of the striking drivers. The judicial system is not independent, as the supreme leader directly appoints the head of the judiciary, who in turn appoints senior judges. General Courts ostensibly safeguard the rights of defendants, but in practice, suspects are frequently tried in closed sessions without access to legal counsel. Political and other sensitive cases are tried before Revolutionary Courts, where due process protections are routinely disregarded and trials are often summary, lasting as little as five minutes. Dissident clerics are tried before the Special Court for the Clergy. The country’s penal code is based on Sharia and provides for flogging, stoning, amputation, and death for a range of social and political offenses; these punishments are carried out in practice. Although the constitution prohibits arbitrary arrest and detention, these practices are increasingly routine. Suspected dissidents are often held in unofficial, illegal detention centers run by a security apparatus consisting of the intelligence services, the Revolutionary Guard, judicial officials, and the police. Allegations of torture are common in such centers and in the notorious Evin prison. Although legislation banning the use of torture in interrogations was promulgated in 2004, allegations of torture persisted in 2006. Prison conditions are notoriously poor in Iran, and allegations of torture and death in captivity are common. Political prisoners are held under deplorable conditions, and supporters who protest their detention or defend their cause are also prosecuted. Two student activists died in Evin prison in 2006 following mistreatment and hunger strikes. Valiollah Feyz Mahdavi died on September 7, 2006, following the death of Akbar Mohammadi on July 30. Khalil Bahramian, a lawyer defending Akbar Mohammadi, was charged with insulting the system after he commented on the questionable death. Iran is a world leader in juvenile executions. Even though it has ratified two treaties on children’s rights, it has executed more juveniles in the last five years than any other country. Overall, execution of prisoners has risen since Ahmadinejad’s election. In 2006 alone, the authorities executed 10 prisoners and condemned 21 to death. Women are again being sentenced to death by stoning. The constitution and laws call for equal rights for all ethnic groups, allowing considerable cultural and linguistic freedom, but in practice these rights are restricted by the authorities. Ethnic Kurds, Arabs, Baluchis, and Azeris complain of political and economic discrimination, as do religious minorities. Kurdish opposition groups suspected of separatist aspirations, such as the Democratic Party of Iranian Kurdistan (KDPI), are brutally suppressed. Ethnic tensions and dissent among minorities have been on the rise for the past two years. In March 2006, Baluchis attacked a police motorcade, and clashes erupted in May between Azeris and government forces over an offensive cartoon published in a state-run newspaper. There have also been a number of attacks against the government by ethnic Arabs living in southwestern Iran. However, the most pressing ethnic issue is the “Kurdish question.” Approximately 5 million Kurds live in Iran, concentrated in some of the least developed areas of the country. The autonomy of Kurds in neighboring Iraq has inspired Iranian Kurds to agitate for greater independence. KDPI conducted a number of military operations against the government in 2006. Women are widely educated; 94 percent of secondary school aged girls attend school, compared to only 80 percent of boys, and a majority of university students are female. Although Iranian women currently hold seats in Parliament, they do not enjoy the same political rights as men. Women are barred from serving as judges and are routinely excluded from running for public office. Women also face systematic discrimination in legal and social matters. A woman cannot obtain a passport without the permission of a male relative or her husband, and women do not enjoy equal rights under Sharia statutes governing divorce, inheritance, and child custody. A woman’s testimony in court is given only half the weight of a man’s. Women must conform to strict dress codes and are segregated from men in most public places. Bowing to popular pressure, Ahmadinejad issued a ruling in May 2006 that allowed women to attend soccer matches, but it was promptly overturned by religious authorities. [/quote] [freedomhouse.org/template.cf … untry=7196](http://www.freedomhouse.org/template.cfm?page=22&year=2007&country=7196) There. That was easy. Now, you tell me why so many countries have “issues” with Bush and not Iran? This should be good. Rich in fact… Please… do share… my humor is waiting to be activated on a grand scale. ---
**Author:** ![irishstu](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/i/45deac/32.png) [@irishstu](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/irishstu)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2007, 5:36am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/irans-leader-not-so-bad-when-compared-with-bush/40528/14 "2007-09-26T05:36:41Z")
> [@fred smith](#): > > Now, you tell me why so many countries have “issues” with Bush and not Iran? This should be good. Rich in fact… Please… do share… my humor is waiting to be activated on a grand scale. Well I see you continue to go on about human rights, despite my last comment. Perhaps people from other countries have issues (note the lack of quotes) with your boss because he’s fucking it up for people in so many different countries, including those that are supposedly on the same side, whereas that Iranian bloke has not affected so many people outside his own country (or possibly neighbouring countries). He certainly hasn’t gone to the other side of the planet to invade countries. ---
**Author:** ![fred\_smith](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/f/3ec8ea/32.png) [@fred\_smith](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/fred_smith)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2007, 5:51am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/irans-leader-not-so-bad-when-compared-with-bush/40528/15 "2007-09-26T05:51:30Z")
> [@](#): > > Well I see you continue to go on about human rights, despite my last comment. Relevance? > [@](#): > > Perhaps people from other countries have issues (note the lack of quotes) with your boss because he’s fucking it up for people in so many different countries, for fighting terrorists and thugs that used to hold these nations in thrall? for stopping Iraq before it could develop wmds… while watching the frenzied effort of Europe and the UN to do something about Iran for the same exact reasons? > [@](#): > > including those that are supposedly on the same side, ??? > [@](#): > > whereas that Iranian bloke has not affected so many people outside his own country (or possibly neighbouring countries). He certainly hasn’t gone to the other side of the planet to invade countries. So in your cute little world of moral relativism, it is the invasion and the distance wherein the invasion was conducted that determines the morality of said action? Okay, then… You are quite the bright little bulb aren’t you? haha But perhaps you really meant to phrase this a different way? I will give you time to clarify… don’t disappoint me now, ya hear? haha ---
**Author:** ![Truant](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/t/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Truant](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/Truant)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2007, 5:59am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/irans-leader-not-so-bad-when-compared-with-bush/40528/16 "2007-09-26T05:59:14Z")
[quote=“fred smith”]The US scores perfect 1s in both categories… Let’s see how Iran does… [quote]Political Rights Score: 6 Civil Liberties Score: 6 Status: Not Free [/quote][/quote] Is this the golf scoring system? If so, then the US must be consistently getting hole-in-1s. ---
**Author:** ![irishstu](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/i/45deac/32.png) [@irishstu](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/irishstu)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2007, 6:02am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/irans-leader-not-so-bad-when-compared-with-bush/40528/17 "2007-09-26T06:02:18Z")
> [@fred smith](#): > > [quote]Well I see you continue to go on about human rights, despite my last comment. Relevance? [/quote] Well the relevance is that it is not what the thread’s about. Or does that not matter to you? > [@fred smith](#): > > [quote]Perhaps people from other countries have issues (note the lack of quotes) with your boss because he’s fucking it up for people in so many different countries, for fighting terrorists and thugs that used to hold these nations in thrall? for stopping Iraq before it could develop wmds… while watching the frenzied effort of Europe and the UN to do something about Iran for the same exact reasons? [/quote] W-w-what??? You mean they didn’t already have WMDs, pointed at all the peaceful countries in the world, with Saddam ready and willing to launch them all within seconds? Silly me, I must have misheard something. > [@fred smith](#): > > [quote] including those that are supposedly on the same side, ???[/quote] Too hard for you, that one? You just can’t see that America’s allies have been severely pissed off with GWB for quite some time now? > [@fred smith](#): > > [quote]whereas that Iranian bloke has not affected so many people outside his own country (or possibly neighbouring countries). He certainly hasn’t gone to the other side of the planet to invade countries. So in your cute little world of moral relativism, it is the invasion and the distance wherein the invasion was conducted that determines the morality of said action? Okay, then… You are quite the bright little bulb aren’t you? haha But perhaps you really meant to phrase this a different way? I will give you time to clarify… don’t disappoint me now, ya hear? haha[/quote] Personally, I don’t see the need to go invading countries that are no threat to my own, even if they behave like complete fuckers within their own country. Not my business. Yes, the fact that a country is on the other side of the world does make a difference. If Canada were to develop nasty weapons to use against you lot, I’d say you would be much more justified in doing something about it. Anyway, Fred, I’d love to hang around and chat, but I have some work to do. ---
**Author:** ![fred\_smith](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/f/3ec8ea/32.png) [@fred\_smith](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/fred_smith)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2007, 6:23am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/irans-leader-not-so-bad-when-compared-with-bush/40528/18 "2007-09-26T06:23:34Z")
> [@](#): > > Well the relevance is that it is not what the thread’s about. Or does that not matter to you? The thread is about how the Leader of Iran is not as bad as Bush… I would imagine that human rights or rights in general would fit under that quite well… > [@](#): > > W-w-what??? You mean they didn’t already have WMDs, pointed at all the peaceful countries in the world, with Saddam ready and willing to launch them all within seconds? Silly me, I must have misheard something. The British goverment claimed that he had wmds that could be assembled and fired within 45 minutes. The US government did not make that claim. Rather, Bush said repeatedly (and I know that this is hard for you to understand) that we needed to act BEFORE Saddam became an IMMINENT threat. Now, do you understand? One lives in hope… > [@](#): > > Too hard for you, that one? You just can’t see that America’s allies have been severely pissed off with GWB for quite some time now? For what? What has Bush done to any of them? They did not want to act. They have not acted. Those that supported the American led action are now chickening out while citizens of those nations lecture me on the Pottery Barn rule… When the going gets tough, the “allies” get going… Otherwise, explain to me how things are working in Afghanistan… Remember EVERYONE agreed that this was important and supported the effort. When the action became more difficult, they all started to cut and run or at least talk about it. My, how the allies like to talk. How’s that working out with regard to Iran and why are you even talking so desperately with the likes of the Iranian leadership? Isn’t the threat all in Bush’s head? imaginary? not a threat? dialogue can solve this, right? > [@](#): > > Personally, I don’t see the need to go invading countries that are no threat to my own, even if they behave like complete fuckers within their own country. Ah, but your governments do. Why? > [@](#): > > Not my business. No. NOT yours. IF you understood your government’s policies, however, you might realize that despite not being YOUR concern that it was one for every government in the West. But inaction in your view is superior to doing something? What a surprise. > [@](#): > > Yes, the fact that a country is on the other side of the world does make a difference. If Canada were to develop nasty weapons to use against you lot, I’d say you would be much more justified in doing something about it. as opposed to the Iraqis invading Kuwait and Saudi Arabia, disrupting world oil supplies and throwing the world into depression? Right… mighty provincial this little village you live in… > [@](#): > > Anyway, Fred, I’d love to hang around and chat, but I have some work to do. I assure you that I am not interested in having you tarry in the least. Back to work! Glad to hear that someone from Canada is actually working (haha). ---
**Author:** ![irishstu](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/i/45deac/32.png) [@irishstu](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/irishstu)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2007, 6:32am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/irans-leader-not-so-bad-when-compared-with-bush/40528/19 "2007-09-26T06:32:08Z")
> [@fred smith](#): > > [quote]Yes, the fact that a country is on the other side of the world does make a difference. If Canada were to develop nasty weapons to use against you lot, I’d say you would be much more justified in doing something about it. as opposed to the Iraqis invading Kuwait and Saudi Arabia, disrupting world oil supplies and throwing the world into depression? Right… mighty provincial this little village you live in…[/quote] And there we have it… (in bold) > [@fred smith](#): > > [quote]Anyway, Fred, I’d love to hang around and chat, but I have some work to do. I assure you that I am not interested in having you tarry in the least. Back to work! Glad to hear that someone from Canada is actually working (haha).[/quote] Erm… you think I’m Canadian? Have all your arguments about MY government been about the Canadian government? Hehe! Anyway, seriously I have to work. Good luck in your, erm, quest. ---
**Author:** ![BroonAle](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/b/ecae2f/32.png) [@BroonAle](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/BroonAle)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2007, 6:56am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/irans-leader-not-so-bad-when-compared-with-bush/40528/20 "2007-09-26T06:56:34Z")
> [@fred smith](#): > > [quote]You just can’t see that America’s allies have been severely pissed off with GWB for quite some time now? For what? What has Bush done to any of them? [/quote] Well, for starters, he was born which, eventually, and rather unfortunately for us, encouraged the emergence of maggots\* such as yourself from the steaming turd that is Amerikan Republikan Politiks. BroonAsserts \*runt, reptile, maggot. The list of applicable Felch Schmidt epithets grows. [Next page](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/irans-leader-not-so-bad-when-compared-with-bush/40528.md?page=2)