Iraq on the right path

An interesting article from the “Kuwait Times.” Puts a bit more perspective on things. Its a bit long, but well written. Goes into some detail about the economic improvements that are happening in Iraq.

[quote] Iraq on the right path

Generally speaking, the media worldwide report predominantly about the sensational, catastrophes, deaths, controversial statements by international personalities, wars, celebrity stories, gossip, rumours and the abnormal.
News about socio-economic success, development and progress is scantily tackled. A veteran German reporter told me this kind of news is boring for media consumers. People prefer the sensational. Hence, media providers fiercely compete to get hold of dramatic events. This is the kind of news that mesmerises people to the media. Commercial media, above all TV channels rejoice in reporting about wars and killing, the sooner the better. They rush to the scene of events and report live. “Thank God! At last something sensational is happening. Now we can make money (through commercials of course).” Commercial TV owners celebrate joyfully. Sensational events overshadow normal, ordinary, effective, humane achievements.
Had Mohammed Yunus not won this year’s Nobel Prize for peace, no body would have taken notice of his great Mini-Loan Bank in Bangladesh which helped eradicate poverty for seven million people. International media used to report almost only about floods and poverty from Bangladesh. Yunus’s work was ignored. It was not sensational enough. Commercial media live on the sensational, the weird, the bloody, the negative, the abnormal, and the controversial.
All this seems to apply to Iraq. We only hear and read bad news from Iraq: suicide and car bombs. Random killing, sabotage, and destruction are the only news we get from Iraq. Kofi Annan, the UN Secretary General describes the situation in Iraq as “worse than a civil war.” Obviously he watches only CNN. But is Iraq really only killing and destruction?
An American businessman with links to major parts of Iraq told me another story of Iraq. While he admits that there is daily killing and destruction in Iraq, there is also construction, development, progress and freedom. Here are some of his facts: Slowly but steadily, “80 per cent of Iraqis are creeping (back) to (normal) life.”
“Um Qasr, in the southeast extremity of Iraq on the Persian Gulf” which was deserted by the spring of 2003 is back to normal. “It is back in business as a port with commercial and military functions. “Hundreds of families have returned - joining many more who have come from all over Iraq.”
“The boom in Um Qasr is part of a broader picture that also includes Basra, the sprawling metropolis of southern Iraq”
Very few media report about good news from Iraq. “Newsweek has just hailed the emergence of a booming market economy in Iraq as “the mother of all surprises,” noting “Iraqis are more optimistic about the future than most Americans are.” The reason, of course, is that Iraqis know what is going on in their country while Americans are fed a diet of exclusively negative reporting from Iraq.”
The growing dynamism of the Iraqi economy is reflected in the steady increase in the value of the national currency, the dinar, against the three currencies in direct competition with it in the Iraqi marketplace: the Iranian rial, the Kuwaiti dinar and the US dollar, since January 2006.”(more at link)
Kuwait Times[/quote]
Some good quotes and info in the article.

[quote]Here are some of his facts: Slowly but steadily, “80 per cent of Iraqis are creeping (back) to (normal) life.” [/quote]The rest remain dead?

Let’s drink to progress.

[quote=“Jaboney”][quote]Here are some of his facts: Slowly but steadily, “80 per cent of Iraqis are creeping (back) to (normal) life.” [/quote]The rest remain dead?

Let’s drink to progress.
[/quote]

Keeping that mind open I see. :unamused:

GBH:

Jaboney has lost so badly on all the other fronts that coming back with jokes is the only way he can restore his equanimity. Boring.

Mind open, brain functioning, not drinking the Kooaid.

[quote=“BBC”]The number of civilians killed in political violence in Iraq reached record levels in December, according to Iraqi government figures.

The interior ministry says 1,930 Iraqis died last month, three-and-a-half times the number who died in January 2006.

The figures were announced as the BBC learned Washington will reveal a fresh strategy for Iraq within days.

President George Bush is expected to send more troops to the country in the hope of quelling the mounting violence.

The BBC’s Peter Greste in Baghdad says the interior ministry statistics make chilling reading.

[quote]KEY DEVELOPMENTS DURING 2006
Civilian deaths reach new high of 12,320, Iraqi government says, but actual numbers may be higher
More than 800 US troops killed
Violence at record levels, with 140 reported attacks daily
Thousands of Iraqis leaving the country each week[/quote]

A total of more than 12,000 civilians were killed for the whole of 2006, the statistics suggested. Half of them died in the last four months.

Such figures have been disputed, and do not include those injured in attacks who died later from their wounds.[/quote]

Jaboney -
So you concede that the article posted for this thread is accurate and does indeed show that there is economic progress happening in Iraq?

I thought you might have a few comments re:the items mentioned in the article.

Are there pockets where there’s money to be made? I have no doubt that there are.
Does this represent progress in terms of where Iraq was before the war? I doubt it.
Does this represent progress from a low point after the war? Well, that’s not saying much, is it?

When it comes to the Iraqi economy, the voices that count are those of the Iraqis themselves. And they seem to be voting with their feet.

[quote=“NYT”]BAGHDAD, Jan. 1 — With thousands of Iraqis desperately fleeing this country every day, advocates for refugees, and even some American officials, say there is an urgent need to allow more Iraqi refugees into the United States.

Until recently the Bush administration had planned to resettle just 500 Iraqis this year, a mere fraction of the tens of thousands of Iraqis who are now believed to be fleeing their country each month. State Department officials say they are open to admitting larger numbers, but are limited by a cumbersome and poorly financed United Nations referral system.

“We’re not even meeting our basic obligation to the Iraqis who’ve been imperiled because they worked for the U.S. government,” said Kirk W. Johnson, who worked for the United States Agency for International Development in Falluja in 2005. “We could not have functioned without their hard work, and it’s shameful that we’ve nothing to offer them in their bleakest hour.”

[…]An estimated 1.8 million Iraqis are living outside Iraq. The pace of the exodus has quickened significantly in the past nine months.

Some critics say the Bush administration has been reluctant to create a significant refugee program because to do so would be tantamount to conceding failure in Iraq. They say a major change in policy could happen only as part of a broader White House shift on Iraq.

“I don’t know of anyone inside the administration who sees this as a priority area,” said Lavinia Limón, president of the United States Committee for Refugees and Immigrants, a nongovernmental refugee resettlement agency based in Washington. “If you think you’re winning, you think they’re going to go back soon.”[/quote]

Let’s see…the article cites an unnamed businessman who gives no source for his information, and supplies no methodology for his figure of 80%. Not a single company in this incredible skein of claims is named, a signal that there are no such companies. The paper is of course a mouthpiece of a US-allied government. The author writes that the Dinar has risen, but neglects to mention that it rose from 1500 to the dollar to about 1300; prior to the war it varied between 4 to 1 to the dollar, or thereabouts. Such disingenuous writing is commonplace among the war’s cheerleaders…

And certainly, that rise in the dinar from 1500 to about 1300 was well worth the more than 600,000 killed since 2003. I’m sure TainanCowboy would be happy to sacrifice his family for a similar gain in the US dollar.

As others have pointed out, of course people are making money, and of course there is economic growth. But that’s not the issue. Even if Iraq grew 15% a year and everyone was a millionaire, it would not justify the criminal invasion of Iraq and the accompanying murder and torture. Economic arguments also used by the KMT to legitimate its murderous regime, and they lie at the heart of Chinese apologies for Tibet. It’s odd to see right-wingers adopting such arguments in Iraq…but then maybe it’s not so odd.

LOL. The new oil handout plan has everyone getting a portion of the national oil income. A good idea, too. But for some reason our friend the capitalist roader neglects to mention it. You know, it is rather uncapitalist of them…and him a sociologist and all.

Vorkosigan

[quote=“Vorkosigan”]Let’s see…blah nlah blah…I’m sure TainanCowboy would be happy to sacrifice his family for a similar gain in the US dollar.[/quote]Irrelevant personal wise-crack… [quote=“Vorkosigan”]As others have pointed out, of course people are making money, and of course there is economic growth. But that’s not the issue. Even if Iraq grew 15% a year and everyone was a millionaire, it would not justify the criminal invasion of Iraq and the accompanying murder and torture. Economic arguments also used by the KMT to legitimate its murderous regime, and they lie at the heart of Chinese apologies for Tibet. It’s odd to see right-wingers adopting such arguments in Iraq…but then maybe it’s not so odd.

LOL. The new oil handout plan has everyone getting a portion of the national oil income. A good idea, too. But for some reason our friend the capitalist roader neglects to mention it. You know, it is rather uncapitalist of them…and him a sociologist and all.

Vorkosigan[/quote]Dr Sami Alrabaa might be interested in your views of his article.
Put “ATTN:Dr Sami Alrabaa” in the subject line of your email.
info@kuwaittimes.net

He might not understand the reason for your comment regarding my sacrificing my family…not sure I see its relevance here either.
Oh, and its an article about economic progress in Iraq. That should explain all the references to economic things.
I eagerly anticipate Dr. Alrabaas’ response to your email.

Yours in capitalistic oppression of the masses.

:unamused: Here we go again… :wanker:

lol maybe by your standards! the guy can’t even spell or write correct English. but don’t worry, it’s TC’s new gospel! for all we know TC wrote it and sent it to the Kuwait Times (where do Fred and TC keep coming up with newspaper’s nobody’s ever heard of? from some neocon RSS feed?)

Why on earth do Fred and TC have to waste good internet bandwidth that could be used for downloading pornos, with weekly kool-aid about how life is so great in Iraq? Guys, I’ll buy you a one way ticket there ok? Do you really think if you keep chanting it to yourself like some jerk-off mantra that it’ll become true?

Hear me now, believe me later. The USA is going to cut and run from Iraq, and the entire place will continue to degenerate into an all out genocidal civil war. History will judge Bush as one of the worst moron leaders in the history of civilization (assuming he’s even classified as part of civilization). History will remain silent on the insignificant lives of Fred and TC.

Check out the other thread on Iraq where this information (from the World Bank) is provided.

Sorry Taheri named them in the other thread. Please check that out. You are as usual wrong.

Which one?

I believe that 1,900 to 1,300 are the correct figures. Please see World Bank report in other thread.

Can you provide the link on that.

The World Bank is a cheerleader of the war? really? news to me.

Prove the 600,000. Again, this was the usual cheap political ploy by the same group that used a similar trick in 2004. The actual figures generally accepted as credible is 55,000.

How was the invasion criminal? and would you say that the accompanying murder and torture now are worse than those that took place under Saddam? You may have 1 million people disagreeing with your “verdict.”

The only thing odd is that people like you feel the need to discuss things about which you know absolutely nothing. But then, perhaps, not so odd after all as you say…

I can do that bit.

[quote]Exchange rates:

New Iraqi dinars per US dollar - 1,475 (2005), 1,890 (second half, 2003), 0.3109 (2001)[/quote]

Source : https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/iz.html#Econ

No, it’s twenty-seven billion zillion…idiot.

[quote=“Toe Tag”]:roll: Here we go again… :wanker:

lol maybe by your standards! the guy can’t even spell or write correct English. but don’t worry, it’s TC’s new gospel! for all we know TC wrote it and sent it to the Kuwait Times (where do Fred and TC keep coming up with newspaper’s nobody’s ever heard of? from some neocon RSS feed?)

Why on earth do Fred and TC have to waste good internet bandwidth that could be used for downloading pornos, with weekly kool-aid about how life is so great in Iraq? Guys, I’ll buy you a one way ticket there ok? Do you really think if you keep chanting it to yourself like some jerk-off mantra that it’ll become true?

Hear me now, believe me later. The USA is going to cut and run from Iraq, and the entire place will continue to degenerate into an all out genocidal civil war. History will judge Bush as one of the worst moron leaders in the history of civilization (assuming he’s even classified as part of civilization). History will remain silent on the insignificant lives of Fred and TC.[/quote]Uhh…Hey Toe Jam -
Get stuffed.(thats is an insult to you) You contribute nothing but blather.(this means you post things that make you look stupid) What the heck are you doing on this island?(this means what job do you do here - that is, if you are even on the island of Taiwan(a place off the coast of that big piece of land to the east of the USA))
God forbid you are allowed near children here.(this means I hope you are not an engrish teechur)
But then again, this is Taiwan, they wouldn’t know what the heck you’re saying anyway.(this means that you might well be an engrish teechur)
If you disagree with something I post, state why.(this means say what your beef is) You’re looking really ignorant and childish with your constant jabbering w/out content.(this one you can probably figure out)
Your blatantly displayed ignorance should be embarrassing to you.(have yo no sense of shame?)
But it would require a basic moral standard and the understanding of what the word embarrass (thats the root word here) means.(this means that you probably do not know you look stupid by your posts)
You obviously have neither. (That means you do not know what I’m talking to you about)

Yes, fred, this is a forum for…

…lost for words? How unusual, that has not previously been a hindrance to you.

I suggested that Iraqis voting with their feet says much about the ahem ‘progress’ being made in Iraq.
Iraq’s PM, Maliki, put the kibosh on that notion, when he told the Wall Street Journal he:

[quote]had faith that peace would eventually be restored to Iraq.

“I have a strong hope. If I didn’t have hope, I wouldn’t be here today.”[/quote]
Of course, he rather undermined his optimistic message with the rest of what he said… :laughing:

[quote=“BBC”]
[b]Iraq’s PM longs to leave office

Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri Maliki has made clear he dislikes being the country’s leader and would prefer to leave the job before his term ends.[/b]

In an extensive interview with a US newspaper, Mr Maliki said he would certainly not be seeking a second term.

A compromise choice, his tenure has been plagued by factional strife within both the country and government, and rumours the US has no faith in him.

“I wish I could be done with it even before the end of this term,” he said.

“I didn’t want to take this position,” he told the Wall Street Journal. “I only agreed because I thought it would serve the national interest, and I will not accept it again.” [/quote]

That’s gotta do wonders to bolster the efforts being made to bring the country… er, Baghdad… I mean, the Green Zone under control.

Let’s start a pool. The possibilities are:

  1. Maliki dies before completing his term in office;
  2. Maliki leaves before completing his term in office;
  3. Maliki completes his term in office then leaves the country _____ days later; (double payout for correctly guessing the number of days after leaving office that he flees the country; four times normal payout for guessing the day and destination)
  4. Maliki completes his term in office then stays in the country. (I’ll give big odds on this one.)

Yep, freedom, and democracy, and apple pie are on the march. Go team.

Your remarks as usual are irrelevant, spurious and off the point.

  1. Freedom and democracy were present in Iraq prior to the invasion?
  2. Freedom and democracy are bad things?
  3. The US is wrong to try to bring freedom and democracy to Iraq?
  4. The US is not really trying to bring freedom and democracy to Iraq?
  5. Iraqis do not deserve freedom and democracy?
  6. Iraqis are not capable of freedom and democracy?
  7. The US is primarily to blame for the inability to bring freedom and democracy to Iraq?
  8. The US failures are to be celebrated since the US is an evil force that is keeping freedom and democracy from coming to Iraq?

Put into that context, can you see why as usual your remarks are loathsome in their stupidity and mindless in their crowing at US misfortunes?

Gee, people want to leave Iraq? Hello, why not? How many did Saddam allow out? 10,000 people lined up to leave? Good for them. I hope they are Drs and high tech people so the US can pick them up.

How many people are lined up to leave Taiwan?

You are bringing a whole LOT of weight to those numbers Jaboney; is the weight really there?

  1. Freedom and democracy were present in Iraq prior to the invasion?
    No. Nor was civil war.
  2. Freedom and democracy are bad things?
    No. But civil war is.
  3. The US is wrong to try to bring freedom and democracy to Iraq?
    Yes. And even the architects of this disaster are tuning in to that.
  4. The US is not really trying to bring freedom and democracy to Iraq?
    Could be trying to bring Santa Claus to Iraq… doesn’t much matter how hard the US tries if he, freedom, democracy, and Rudolph don’t show.
  5. Iraqis do not deserve freedom and democracy?
    Deserves got nothing to do with it.
  6. Iraqis are not capable of freedom and democracy?
    They might be capable of landing a man on the moon… but it’s not happening in '07, and the smart money’s not on '08.
  7. The US is primarily to blame for the inability to bring freedom and democracy to Iraq?
    You pushed this failure through, so yes. And for upsetting the apple cart while trying.
  8. The US failures are to be celebrated since the US is an evil force that is keeping freedom and democracy from coming to Iraq?
    Evil? No. Wrong? Demonstrably. Celebrate? I celebrate the closing of the Project for a New American Century. I’ll celebrate when no more men and women are asked to die for Georgie’s Pride. I’ll be waiting a long, l-o-n-g time for anything to celebrate in Iraq.
    Put into that context, can you see why as usual your remarks are loathsome in their stupidity and mindless in their crowing at US misfortunes?
    No.
    A: not stupid. Loathsome, maybe. But considering the source, well, anything that sticks in your craw might be more than alright.
    B: Mindless, no. The misfortune belongs to more than the US alone–and lays more heavily elsewhere–but you guys bear responsibility for electing–twice! you silly buggers. Er, ok, once… first time wasn’t really your fault–the clowns who created this mess.

[quote]Gee, people want to leave Iraq? Hello, why not? How many did Saddam allow out? 10,000 people lined up to leave? Good for them. I hope they are Drs and high tech people so the US can pick them up.

How many people are lined up to leave Taiwan? [/quote]I’m sure that lots of people wanted to leave Iraq before the war. (In fact, I know that’s so, because I’ve taught a few who managed the trick.) But there’s the “get me out of this repressive hole and give me a shot at the good life” kind of emigration, and then there’s the “if I don’t get out, someone’s going to: put a 9/16 Black ‘n’ Decker drill bit through my hands, feet, and willy; blow up my wife at the market; kidnap my daughter; put a bullet in the back of my son’s head” kind of headlong flight for life. No doubt a double car garage, clean streets, and 4th of July bbqs are enough of a draw to draw off the best and the brightest… if selective immigration were the goal, surely this is overkill. Btw, is this a part of the new mission: bring freedom and democracy to the middle east while pillaging the human resources?

Actually, in the wake of my recent illness, I carry a lot less weight. But there’s no need for me to lean on the scales… not when a surge of 30,000 troops is expected to have no appreciable impact.