It just gets worse. Time for someone really high up in the US maladministration to take the fall for this. I don’t buy it that the higher-ups didn’t know. They are desperate to hang on until the election. Bush’s legacy is going to be really interesting. The most destructive US president in history. And all because some idiots in AbuGhraib could’t find the toilet or have a wank. Tsk Tsk
Take a look at the latest pictures of abuse in the Washington Post.
Does this dog look like he is about to attack the helpless Iraqi prisoner? Doesn’t seem that way to me.
Absolutely, Fred! And is that faeces smeared on another prisoner? Of course not; it’s yet another liberal-media trick. Damn those lefties!
Never underestimate the power of denial.
Where’s the dog. Or am I missing a trick?
Fred
It is ok sometimes to accept that the abuse is real, honest, it won’t kill you or make you into a real anti-Bush type. We will all still know that you think Bush is one step above the almighty
[quote=“butcher boy”]Fred
It is ok sometimes to accept that the abuse is real, honest, it won’t kill you or make you into a real anti-Bush type. We will all still know that you think Bush is one step above the almighty[/quote]
I don’t consider myself either a Dem or a Rep…it is kind of a love/hate relationship with both parties. I support the war in Iraq simply because Saddam is a bad guy ( this whole mess could have been avoided if elder Bush had finished the job when he had the chance…and the support. I said at that time that it was a mistake not to grind Saddam into dust). I am however, deeply embarrassed by what has been shown in these abuse pictures. What on earth were those people thinking? I am an American and very proud to be an American but what these pictures show is disgusting.
Yes. The abuse is disgusting.
Yes. The abuse is disgusting.[/quote]
So who do you think should take the rap?
Yes. The abuse is disgusting.[/quote]
So who do you think should take the rap?[/quote]
Definitely the soldiers who committed the abuse. And if it can be shown, as Mucha Man pointed out, that any higher ups ordered the abuse (specific acts) or knew of the abuse but did nothing to stop the same, then they too should be held responsible.
Yes. The abuse is disgusting.[/quote]
So who do you think should take the rap?[/quote]
Definitely the soldiers who committed the abuse. And if it can be shown, as Mucha (Muzha) Man pointed out, that any higher ups ordered the abuse (specific acts) or knew of the abuse but did nothing to stop the same, then they too should be held responsible.[/quote]
How much higher up?
Anti-Americanism hits record highs across Asia
…
“For the first time in 50 years, relations between the US and all the countries in the region, notably India and Pakistan, have been good and yet, paradoxically, the US has never been more unpopular than it is today,” said Farooq Sobhan, a retired senior diplomat from Bangladesh.
Sobhan said the US invasion of Iraq, its policy in the Middle East and the recent Iraqi prisoner abuse scandal involving American soldiers contributed "to this strong, growing hostility towards the United States.
…
Kim warned the growth of anti-American sentiment was a “serious matter.”
“If you try to be a leader in the context in which the people disapproved of what you are doing, you are bound to be ineffective and bound to pay a much extra cost to achieve what you set out to achieve,” he said.
Taipei Times
Thursday, May 20, 2004
People wouldn’t just abuse someone for no reason. Those Iraqis were probably asking for it. Tit for tat, I say, tit for tat.
No limit. My only restriction on liability is that those responsible must have ordered the abuse (specific acts) or known of the abuse (again, specific acts) but did nothing to stop the same.
Yes. The abuse is disgusting.[/quote]
So who do you think should take the rap?[/quote]
Definitely the soldiers who committed the abuse. And if it can be shown, as Mucha (Muzha) (Muzha) (Muzha) Man pointed out, that any higher ups ordered the abuse (specific acts) or knew of the abuse but did nothing to stop the same, then they too should be held responsible.[/quote]
How much higher up?[/quote]
No limit. My only restricyion on liability is that those responsible must have ordered the abuse (specific acts) or known of the abuse (again, specific acts) but did nothing to stop the same.[/quote]
What is ‘specific acts’?
“I order you to smear those Iraqis in shit and make them masturbate”?
Or
“Do whatever it takes to get them to talk”?
What kind of liability? Heads will roll kind? Like dishonorable discharge? Like impeachment?
Ban this turd.
Ban this turd.[/quote]
Because of that remark?
Hasn’t Fred Smith expressed similar views?
I’d rather ban that nasal decongestant for overposting.
This one will be banned soon enough for being an all around gobshite.
[quote=“Alien”]What is ‘specific acts’?
“I order you to smear those Iraqis in shit and make them masturbate”?
Or
“Do whatever it takes to get them to talk”?[/quote]
I thik it has to be pretty specific. The problem with holding people accountable for statements such as “Do whatever it takes to get them to talk” is that it should be understood that such “whatevers” must still be within the range of acceptable methods. Imagine you are a police officer and your superior tells you to “make the suspect talk”. Would you think that you were free to employ any method to get the suspect to talk? I wouldn’t think that.
I know some will argue that such a statement could be interpreted to mean literally that the soldiers were ordered to do “anything”.
However, considering that Bush specifically stated that the US liberated Iraq and put an end to the type of torture and abuse that existed under Saddam’s rule, I think it obvious that Bush didn’t want torture and the other types of abuse to be used.
Moreover, as I understand, the abuse occurred in the early morning hours when the prison was the least busy and least filled with outside staff… i.e., away from most eyes. This leads me to believe that the soldiers who committed the horrible acts were intent on hiding the same.
Finally, it was a soldier in the US Army who reported the acts. Either he simply didn’t receive the same orders, or he understood that the abuse was wrong and against policy.
Whatever the law calls for, including any of the above.
[quote=“tigerman”]
Finally, it was a soldier in the US Army who reported the acts. Either he simply didn’t receive the same orders, or he understood that the abuse was wrong and against policy.[/quote]
Would be interested to know what will become of that soldier’s military career. Would be interested to know if he received same orders, but found it went against his moral beliefs. Would be interested to know if the guy who sent the photos to him thought he wouldn’t report it and just perhaps ‘laugh’ at what they’d done to those damn Iraqis. Would be interested to know if the one who sent the pics to the one who reported, actually sent it to him so HE WOULD report it.
I’ve only encountered American GIs overseas in S. Korea. They’re absolutely fuckin repulsive there, and that’s just when they’re hanging out, not at war.
Is there really such thing as a military code of ethics?
[quote=“Alien”]I’ve only encountered American GIs overseas in S. Korea. They’re absolutely fuckin repulsive there, and that’s just when they’re hanging out, not at war.
Is there really such thing as a military code of ethics?
[/quote]
One of my best friends served in the military. According to him, the GIs that get sent to South Korea are not of the highest, uh, quality. Take a peak at this recent incident in Seoul: